566 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

Way to hijack the topic someone else created.

Bought it. Does the engine cap make sense? No. The only thing this mech will bounty hunt is Maulers, Atlai and stock Urbies. My guess is they will raise the engine cap prior to the early adopter reward period ends.

And my guess is they would have with only one thread bringing this up.

[Khobai]

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um... um... sell it for cbills XD

The point is youre better off buying the normal pack plus the hero for $5 less and getting 4 DIFFERENT mechs

whereas if you buy the collectors pack you only get 3 different mechs and two of the same mech, and still dont get the hero mech

whos running PGI's marketing? Paul? whats next ghost variants?

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Does the engine cap make sense?

makes perfect sense if the engine is fueled by tears

Edited by Khobai, 14 September 2015 - 05:06 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 14 September 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

Because I am comparing apples to apples, the marauder compared to other marauders, not compared to the current meta or other op mechs.

Read my last post and tell me how OP this Marauder is with a 300 engine size, compared to the others.

[Roadkill]

1453 R, on 14 September 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

there's also nothing stopping people from putting a 250 in the Bounty Hunter and loading up on Goose, ERLL, and backup MLs with heat sinks and such and making a five-tons-less assault 'Mech out of it.

Which you can do on any of the variants, basically. Multiple medium lasers isn't a win over larges when you have the tonnage to play with, and with a 250 engine you have the tonnage.

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In the realm of actual, realistic advantage, giving the Bounty Hunter a 325 cap largely obsoletes the Black Knight, the Grasshopper, the other three Marauders, and also the Cataphract and most of the C-bill JagerMechs.

I disagree, but for the sake of argument let's say I don't.

In that case... so what? Mechs obsolete other Mechs all the time. Some Mechs are nominally obsolete when they're added to the game. That's what happens when you have 50-odd chassis available. That's how it goes in F2P games.

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A case can be made for 300. 300 seems workable, though it's a little sad to see the Bounty Hunter's character eroded like that. After all, 100+kph UrbanMooks are not UrbanMooks.

Give me a break. That's not a valid argument. If you want to pilot a 30 kph Urbanmech, you still can. But what do you know? No one is doing that because a 30 kph Urbanmech is a waste of space.

Get over it. This isn't BattleTech, it's a real-time computer game derived from a turn-based board game. Things have to change for the game to work. 30 kph Urbanmechs and 55 kph Heavies don't work in this environment.

Limiting the engine caps on the Urbanmech and Marauder serve only to limit options. You can build your gimped Mechs if you want to, but stop trying to force everyone else to build them also.

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 14 September 2015 - 03:58 PM, said:

Ill PAY for a marauder hero with a non gimped engine, I wont pay for one that has crap

Bingo.

This isn't just another variant that you're getting as part of a large pack. It's a Hero that you pay for separately, so it must stand on its own. And with a 275 cap it doesn't. Or rather, standing there is about all it does, because it sure as heck can't run.

[Tarogato]

Variant with the most energy hardpoints to complement a ballistic... I'd say it needs a trade-off and I think a low engine cap is a fair trade-off.

But 300 would be good. While 270<sic> is according to the formula, it just ... it's... I... ...

I think 300 max would be better.

[zagibu]

1453 R, on 14 September 2015 - 04:51 PM, said:

6 arm lasers -and a headbeamer - beats the stuffing out of four arm lasers and two missile launchers. It's also debatably better than five arm lasers and two ballistics, considering the Bounty Hunter gets 7E/1B for heavy-duty Gausslasers/Cannonlasers, whereas the 5M trying to make use of dual ballistics and backup beam spam doesn't have enough room for it all unless it drops to BH_level XL levels.

People are acting like having the hex set of lasers on the arms is a complete nonfactor. It's not - it may not be as supah-hypah optimal as if all six of those lasers were in the skyhook RT, but it's certainly better than, say...not having those lasers at all. The 5D's missiles are lollerskates pointless and we all know it. The 5M can be argued as being equivalent - dual RT ballistics beats two extra energy, one of which is crit-limited - but at dual medium ballistics weight it's also going to be engine-limited.

If the Bounty Hunter had the same 360 as the other three? No contest whatsoever which of the four would be the best machine, and I'm fairly sure people who say otherwise are just being jackwads for the purposes of trying to break the thing.

I'm not convinced. Can you show some builds? IS laser vomit is just unimpressive without massive quirks, which is why those extra E hardpoints are more or less useless, in my opinion. And yeah, the 5D is probably the worst of the bunch.

[XX Sulla XX]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 14 September 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

Because I am comparing apples to apples, the marauder compared to other marauders, not compared to the current meta or other op mechs.

Wel Marauders do not just play against Marauders.

[Roadkill]

Escef, on 14 September 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

Here's a silly idea: What if, in honor of his camo, the MAD-BH2 got a higher c-bill bonus rate? Would the 275 engine cap still be acceptable? Would you be willing to at least try it?

An interesting idea, but the answer is still no unless the number you're thinking of is silly high.

Bad mech is still bad.

[1453 R]

Gas Guzzler, on 14 September 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

Go theorycraft and tell me how the lasers and Gauss work out with a 275 engine, or even a 300. With an XL 300 you can do 2 LL, 5ML, and a Gauss, and 14 DHS. 14 DHS is a little low for 7 lasers! Oh, and they are IS MLs, so no poking with those over 350 m or so if you want a decent return on your heat buildup.

As you start removing medium lasers to make it more heat efficient, you may as well just drop all of them and run 3 LL and Gauss, but oh wait two of the other variants can do that, one of which has JJs AND the high engine cap.

So please, tell me how OP that Gauss + 7 IS lasers is with a 300 engine size.

Except three quarters of the thread is pushing for the same 360 cap on the Bounty Hunter that the other Marauders have, all citing "that headlaser may as well not exist!"

All right - the head laser no longer exists. Drop the headbeamer, up the engine to 360. Also give it a new name and paint scheme because it's clearly no longer The Bounty Hunter.

300? Fine. A little disappointing, but fine. 325? Likely too much, considering that the majority of effective Marauder builds will be ballistics-based STD-engine builds, and not a single clucking one of those is going to go above 325STD...but all right. 360? Why not just do Douglas' crappy 5D instead?

You're sacrificing the nature of the 'Mech - a slow, heavily armed ranged combatant - for a handful of random power creep. No, it doesn't really sit well with me, even if it'd still be "super lame" next to a Timber Wolf. They're going to hammer the poor TBR into garbage sometime soon anyways - do you want your Bounty Hunters to follow?

[Bishop Steiner]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 14 September 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

Because I am comparing apples to apples, the marauder compared to other marauders, not compared to the current meta or other op mechs.

Cool, so am I. Those extra hardpoints are all but unusable, can only be effectively used with Medium or Small lasers, which means 200-350m real effective range, and thanks to lpow engine cap and 3xCrit DHS, not enough cooling to maximize using those Mediums, unless you skip a decent ballistic, (which leaves you with less firepower AND speed than a HBK-4p) and in either example nowhere near enough speed to actually close to maximize those Mediums or Smalls.

Those extra hardpoints are fools gold, even with a 300 or 325. Since you use a 325 you would HAVE to run an XL (which the concept art makes look somewhat questionable) you come out a draw, essentially for DHS space.

[Gas Guzzler]

1453 R, on 14 September 2015 - 05:08 PM, said:

Except three quarters of the thread is pushing for the same 360 cap on the Bounty Hunter that the other Marauders have, all citing "that headlaser may as well not exist!"

All right - the head laser no longer exists. Drop the headbeamer, up the engine to 360. Also give it a new name and paint scheme because it's clearly no longer The Bounty Hunter.

300? Fine. A little disappointing, but fine. 325? Likely too much, considering that the majority of effective Marauder builds will be ballistics-based STD-engine builds, and not a single clucking one of those is going to go above 325STD...but all right. 360? Why not just do Douglas' crappy 5D instead?

You're sacrificing the nature of the 'Mech - a slow, heavily armed ranged combatant - for a handful of random power creep. No, it doesn't really sit well with me, even if it'd still be "super lame" next to a Timber Wolf. They're going to hammer the poor TBR into garbage sometime soon anyways - do you want your Bounty Hunters to follow?

300 engine size won't erode the character of the mech, you are just putting the stock engine back in it before you trade it in for your ECM laser vomit Timber Wolf, that's all.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ted Wayz, on 14 September 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

Way to hijack the topic someone else created.

Bought it. Does the engine cap make sense? No. The only thing this mech will bounty hunt is Maulers, Atlai and stock Urbies. My guess is they will raise the engine cap prior to the early adopter reward period ends.

And my guess is they would have with only one thread bringing this up.

? Care to elucidate?

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 14 September 2015 - 05:08 PM, said:

Except three quarters of the thread is pushing for the same 360 cap on the Bounty Hunter that the other Marauders have, all citing "that headlaser may as well not exist!"

All right - the head laser no longer exists. Drop the headbeamer, up the engine to 360. Also give it a new name and paint scheme because it's clearly no longer The Bounty Hunter.

300? Fine. A little disappointing, but fine. 325? Likely too much, considering that the majority of effective Marauder builds will be ballistics-based STD-engine builds, and not a single clucking one of those is going to go above 325STD...but all right. 360? Why not just do Douglas' crappy 5D instead?

You're sacrificing the nature of the 'Mech - a slow, heavily armed ranged combatant - for a handful of random power creep. No, it doesn't really sit well with me, even if it'd still be "super lame" next to a Timber Wolf. They're going to hammer the poor TBR into garbage sometime soon anyways - do you want your Bounty Hunters to follow?

except that 3/4 of the posts aren't. Not even half, probably not even a quarter. YOU bring it up more than anyone. Well, you and Sulla. (over 180 posts here, chief)

The OP does not, and that is kinda the Key Post. So let's focus on the actual OP, not any smoke and mirrors, Hmmmmmmm?

[Cyborne Elemental]

A heavy being able to do 70kph or better is a necessity in MWO.

275 cap might be cannon, but its going to cripple the Marauder at those low speeds.

290 or 300 cap is where it should be.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mister D, on 14 September 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

A heavy being able to do 70kph or better is a necessity in MWO.

275 cap might be cannon, but its going to cripple the Marauder at those low speeds.

290 or 300 cap is where it should be.

there is no engine cap in canon except for (1) a 400 rated or (2) you run out of tonnage.

[Roadkill]

1453 R, on 14 September 2015 - 04:30 PM, said:

The key thing there, methinks, is that the canonical Bounty Hunter did indeed cut his engine by a goll-darned lot. Letting the Bounty Hunter be as fast as every other Marauder, whilst also having equivalent jets to the C-bill variants and also superior hardpoints, is...yeah.

Not only is it bad for the lore/flavor/canon of the 'Mech, but as has been said: the Black Knight, the Grasshopper, the Orion, the Cataphract, and some of the JagerMechs still need room to play. Hell, at that performance level it'd outdo a few of the Clan heavies. I know Summoners who'd trade out their Clan energy for that level of weaponry, and frankly I can think of a few Hellbingers who'd feel somewhat bullied by an 85kph Bounty Hunter too. Considering us Clan types are staring down the barrels of the Nerfblaster right now, maybe don't set your sights on supah-overpowering the Bounty Hunter?

Hyperbole much?

The BH's hardpoints are not superior to every other Marauder's hardpoints. The only thing it can do better than the others is laser vomit, which is mitigated by the fact that all but one of its E hardpoints are in low-slung arms. Its hardpoints give it very limited options while the other variants are all much more flexible.

The Cataphract and the Orion are already obsolete. Adding the BH does not change that in any way. The Black Knight and Grasshopper have higher E mounts, and at least in the Grasshopper's case likely a slimmer profile. Remember, the Marauder is big and gangly... I suspect it's going to have mediocre hitboxes at best. Jagermechs have all of their important hardpoints in high mounts in the arms - they serve a completely different role and will be unaffected by the introduction of the Marauder.

The Summoner sucks. (Sorry, Bishop.) Using it as a counter-point is laughable. Don't try to drag every other Mech down to the Summoner's level... it needs to be brought up to a serviceable level.

A 325 gives it a top speed of 77 kph with Speed Tweak, not 85. Plus the Hellbringer has ECM and a better hardpoint layout.

Seriously, man, I want some of what you're smoking.

[Cyborne Elemental]

Bishop Steiner, on 14 September 2015 - 05:16 PM, said:

there is no engine cap in canon except for (1) a 400 rated or (2) you run out of tonnage.

So whats the problem then?

[Khobai]

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A heavy being able to do 70kph or better is a necessity in MWO.

I disagree. A Cataphract-4X with a 255 engine cap can still wreck face. You can afford to be slower if you carry extra firepower to compensate for it.

IMO most heavies need to be slowed down. Heavies are the most popular weight class because theyre good at too many things. And the medium weight class really struggles finding a role in the game because of all the fast heavies. I for one would like to see more slow heavies if anything.

65kph is fine for the lower end speed on heavies. And no heavy should really go faster than 80kph (except rare cases like the Dragon). Otherwise the heavy weight class has too much overlap with the medium weight class.

Edited by Khobai, 14 September 2015 - 05:28 PM.

[Roadkill]

1453 R, on 14 September 2015 - 05:08 PM, said:

Except three quarters of the thread is pushing for the same 360 cap on the Bounty Hunter

Uh... no. It's been mentioned in passing as what the cap theoretically should be due to the fact that the Bounty Hunter is just a modded 3R, but very few people are actually suggesting that that's what the answer should be.

The bulk of the thread is arguing for a 325 or 300 cap.

[El Bandito]

Ted Wayz, on 14 September 2015 - 05:03 PM, said:

Way to hijack the topic someone else created.

Bought it. Does the engine cap make sense? No. The only thing this mech will bounty hunt is Maulers, Atlai and stock Urbies. My guess is they will raise the engine cap prior to the early adopter reward period ends.

And my guess is they would have with only one thread bringing this up.

It makes sense if you read the lore--as the owner intentionally lowered the engine rating to fit the Gauss. Whether it is balanced or not, is another story. I think PGI will give it decent Gauss quirks.

As for Atlas-speed Heavies--my dual gauss/triple UAC5 Jager laughs at all who diss its slow speed. It carries 255 XL, and it still kicks ass and takes names.

Edited by El Bandito, 14 September 2015 - 05:53 PM.