566 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

What a surprise, didn't see this coming.

So are we satisfied that PGI listened to the community? CW still sucks but the Bounty Hunter has a max engine cap (not stock engine) of 300.

Yay us!

[Gas Guzzler]

bad arcade kitty, on 15 September 2015 - 03:55 PM, said:

well

to be fair, cataphract 4x still has its engine capped on 255 for having 2 torso energy and 2 ballistic per arm, all others are at 340, while marauder got a special treatment

Raise it to 280 then.

Still, a dakka boat doesn't starve for heatsinks like a 7E hardpoint mech. Do you not understand that?

[Brody319]

MeiSooHaityu, on 15 September 2015 - 03:57 PM, said:

My Mauler 2P runs 6 MLases, but with DUAL GAUSS!

It is actually my least performing Mauler of the 4. It's just too hot. Running 7 with a single gauss would be worse. I just don't know about that build for the Marauder. I could see running a Gauss, but energy backup might be tricky. Maybe 3 MPLasers and 4 SLasers :/.

Who knows, maybe it can better handle energy once it receives quirks, but I wouldn't count on that.

I build like this.
LPL = Overheat? -> LLs
LLs = Overheat? -> MPLs
MPL = Overheat? -> MLs
and so on and so forth.

So if MLs are too hot, swap em out for some SPLs.

[MischiefSC]

I run a TW with 6 or 7 cermls and a gauss. Not long range cw spec but she's a beast in pug queue.

That would do everything the BH gauss plus ml will do, just faster with Clan XL and longer laser range, also a smidgen cooler.

[zagibu]

Ted Wayz, on 15 September 2015 - 04:11 PM, said:

What a surprise, didn't see this coming.

So are we satisfied that PGI listened to the community? CW still sucks but the Bounty Hunter has a max engine cap (not stock engine) of 300.

Yay us!

Hey, it's something.

[Bishop Steiner]

Roadkill, on 15 September 2015 - 03:53 PM, said:

In case you haven't seen it elsewhere, PGI also upgraded the IS Top Tier reward. You now qualify for the Zeus if you've purchased both the Urbie Collector Pack and the Marauder Collector Pack.

;but.....but...... PGI doesn't listen to us~!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ted Wayz]

zagibu, on 15 September 2015 - 04:19 PM, said:

Hey, it's something.

So is venereal disease.

[Bishop Steiner]

MischiefSC, on 15 September 2015 - 04:17 PM, said:

I run a TW with 6 or 7 cermls and a gauss. Not long range cw spec but she's a beast in pug queue.

That would do everything the BH gauss plus ml will do, just faster with Clan XL and longer laser range, also a smidgen cooler.

that range, cooling and speed advantage is actually pretty major.

Ted Wayz, on 15 September 2015 - 04:24 PM, said:

So is venereal disease.

that explains most of Reddit, anyhow.

[1453 R]

Heh.

I find it ironic that people are all thinking the Black Knight might actually be a match for the TBR as a laser vomitist, cXL exempted for the moment...but the Bounty Hunter that actually gets a hardpoint to add a Gauss to the mix is considered a complete, dismal failure as a potential laser vomitist.

Either Sphere beamvomit is garbage and can't ever compete, or it's approaching Clan levels. One or the other, folks. I have my own opinions, but frankly if the Bounty Hunter is unrecoverable garbage because too much E and not enough B, why is the Black Knight so revolutionary?

[FupDup]

1453 R, on 15 September 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

Heh.

I find it ironic that people are all thinking the Black Knight might actually be a match for the TBR as a laser vomitist, cXL exempted for the moment...but the Bounty Hunter that actually gets a hardpoint to add a Gauss to the mix is considered a complete, dismal failure as a potential laser vomitist.

Either Sphere beamvomit is garbage and can't ever compete, or it's approaching Clan levels. One or the other, folks. I have my own opinions, but frankly if the Bounty Hunter is unrecoverable garbage because too much E and not enough B, why is the Black Knight so revolutionary?

Nostalgia, mostly. David White draws really sexy BK's, and this mech was one of the poptart kings from MW4.

In terms of MWO, the Burger Knight will at least have better hitboxes than the Marry, because lean humanoids with big shoulders are pretty hard to screw up. However, the hardpoints are low and it has to use IS tech...

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 15 September 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

Heh.

I find it ironic that people are all thinking the Black Knight might actually be a match for the TBR as a laser vomitist, cXL exempted for the moment...but the Bounty Hunter that actually gets a hardpoint to add a Gauss to the mix is considered a complete, dismal failure as a potential laser vomitist.

Either Sphere beamvomit is garbage and can't ever compete, or it's approaching Clan levels. One or the other, folks. I have my own opinions, but frankly if the Bounty Hunter is unrecoverable garbage because too much E and not enough B, why is the Black Knight so revolutionary?

don't know too many people who actually believe that. Clan Endo, Lasers, XL and Dubs say that won't happen, period.

But it will be a better Vomiteer than the BH2

[1453 R]

Honestly?

I'll take my Grasshoppers over either. I am one of those funkalopes who puts a 350XL in the Grasshopper and pretends it's a Summoner with more hardpoints. This sucker right here is one of my favorite Sphere 'Mechs, and I absolutely fail to care how 'poorly optimized' it is.

Though if I had to run one of those Sphere 75ers, it'd be the jumping Black Knight with ECM Bounty Hunter. Gausslasers is something I've run forever; this thing is pretty close to a big, slow classic Flame. Armament-wise, at least, hopefully not hitbox-wise. High-mounted gauss great for poking, buttload of iML for close-quarters defense and finishing wounded threats. Also jumps. And is a Marauder, which does rather automatically make it sexier than a Black Knigget.

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 15 September 2015 - 05:12 PM, said:

Honestly?

I'll take my Grasshoppers over either. I am one of those funkalopes who puts a 350XL in the Grasshopper and pretends it's a Summoner with more hardpoints. This sucker right here is one of my favorite Sphere 'Mechs, and I absolutely fail to care how 'poorly optimized' it is.

Though if I had to run one of those Sphere 75ers, it'd be the jumping Black Knight with ECM Bounty Hunter. Gausslasers is something I've run forever; this thing is pretty close to a big, slow classic Flame. Armament-wise, at least, hopefully not hitbox-wise. High-mounted gauss great for poking, buttload of iML for close-quarters defense and finishing wounded threats. Also jumps. And is a Marauder, which does rather automatically make it sexier than a Black Knigget.

smaller engine cap say worse vomiteer already. Gauss or not.

[Night Thastus]

Breaking news: Bitching and wallets clearly the best way to influence the game.

[Spheroid]

People can wait for purchase, the upgrade option never expires and is essentially a never ending 50% discount on a 75 ton hero. Many are making poor decisions in their euphoria.

See what the base variants plays like and also compare and contrast to the Black Knight once both quirk sets are known. That is my advice.

[Bishop Steiner]

Night Thastus, on 15 September 2015 - 05:15 PM, said:

Breaking news: Bitching and wallets clearly the best way to influence the game.

breaking news....some people have played the game long enough to know a bad design when they see one.

And would rather be proactive and do the whole dang community and PGI a solid in the process.

How that is any fuzz off your nutz, now that is a question to ponder.

[El Bandito]

This change deserves double dose of Leo. Well tweeted, everyone.

Edited by El Bandito, 15 September 2015 - 05:24 PM.

[N0MAD]

The whales have spoken "no bigger engine we wont buy", so Russ will give it a bigger engine, cant stop the sales...

Edited by N0MAD, 15 September 2015 - 05:25 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Roadkill, on 15 September 2015 - 01:24 PM, said:

LOL... wut?

The reason the BH is cheaper than the MAD-3R(S) is because the MAD-3R(S) is better.

Your duplication argument is valid... but that particular "problem" has always existed to some extent. It wasn't as bad before the Urbanmech, but I think the popularity of that package showed PGI that the duplication wasn't a problem. It might be more of a problem now that you have the option of a $15 BH or a $20 MAD-3R(S) in order to get your +30% c-bills, but I suspect that's part of what they're testing with this package.

Well, the collector's Pack with the BH2 is also adding a second cbill bonus mech (yay! 3xac5 cbill bonus mech AND goosewaffle cbill bonus mech).

In addition, the BH2 at $15 is only adding the mech, while the collectors pack $20 upgrade is getting you the cbill bonus 3R, ~4m cbills when you sell the non-bonus 3R, extra cockpit items, and a month of premium time worth $15. Sure, you (that is, whoever) may decide some of these things are not worth anything to them, but even without the 3R(S) the $20 pack includes easily $20 worth of Other Stuff.

So, there's certainly value in the Collectors+Hero pack.

Agent 0 Fortune, on 15 September 2015 - 01:25 PM, said:

1. It doesn’t have jump jets, it already behind the curve against other Marauders (Please do not try to downplay the significance of JumpJets, it is embarrassing, especially on a mech with so much of its hardpoints attached to gorilla arms)

I'm sorry, but this is just wrong. Jump jets are useful, but on a 75t heavy are embarassingly horrible. There's a very good reason why you see a hell of a lot of Timberwolves without jump jets, when it's trivially easy to equip them on any TBR build.

Quote

2. All ballistics are in the same torso, this significantly limits what you can carry. If you take a 350 Engine (as you mention the vast majority will), it weighs 36.5 tons, throw in 14.5 tons of armor and we are at 51 tons, leaving 24 tons for Internals, Heat Sinks, Weapons, and Ammo. I am not seeing a whole lot of use for 3 ballistic hardpoints.
XL engine maybe? Assuming hit boxes allow for it we have freed up 16.5 tons but effectively excluded using AC20, Gauss, and 2xUAC5. Best option is 2xAC5.

Ah, look, goalpost moving!

Nobody says "the majority will run 350 rated engines". Not once in this whole thread. With a 300 or 325 rated engine, however, it's trivial to mount 3 ballistics. Your best option, then, is the 3xAC5 rapidfire no-charge Gauss Rifle. With all 3 being RT mounted, you don't have convergence issues - which is particularly noteworthy when firing at speedy lights. Just like the Banshee who's build this mirrors, that's a very lethal combined weapon system.

Quote

Therefore, to effectively use the side torso you will not be running a 350 Engine, you will most likely be forced to run a smaller engine or simply sacrifice firepower and/or hardpoints, and that is an inherent disadvantage (Bishop, you ride a HBK-4G, how much play do you get out of your 3 Ballistic slots (and if you say MGs, I may actually laugh at you))

Yup. Realistically, most Marauders are going to be running 300 (ballistic heavy) or 325 (gauss+large energy) engines. What exactly is your point here?

Quote

3. You have already mentioned how worthless the Bounty Hunters 6 low-slung arm hardpoints are, despite the mobility and elevation JJs provide. The MAD-3R has two less.

Elevation JJ's provide? Have you even piloted a Heavy with JJ's other than the Suckoner in the last, what, six months? It'll take 3-4 JJ's and several seconds of thrust to get the arm lasers up to ~head height, and that's pretty much the highest they'll get. Jump jets on large heavies are terrible right now. Not worthless, but certainly not huge.

The MAD-3R has two fewer Energy hardpoints... yes. And? How many LPL's/ERLL/LL do you need to mount?

Quote

First, it is pretty arrogant to suggest someone has a “wrong” opinion, this is should be the first clue that your arguments have been self-serving in nature, but kudos to you, you bent PGIs will.

Not at all. It being an opinion is not protection from being wrong - people have all sorts of wrong and often outright stupid opinions.

Quote

But you will need to bring more logic and facts to the table if you want to convince anyone to purchase a MAD-3R(S) for $5 more than the MAD-HB2

I still haven't seen you post a HB2-specific build that's actually better than builds that can be run on the other variants.

As to buying the MAD-3R(S) for $5 more than the BH2, you're not. You're buying:
1) A more flexible and generally just better mech with the same cbill bonus
2) A month of premium time
3) An extra mechbay
4) ~5M cbills
5) 2 more warhorns
6) 2 more hanging items
7) 2 more cockpit items

For $5 more than just a mech that, at best, is comparable.

Roadkill, on 15 September 2015 - 01:40 PM, said:

I'd have probably just included the 3R(S) in the base pack, charged $30 for it, and then had the BH as a $15 add-on. But I'm not a Marketing Genius™® so what do I know.

I'd have been happy with that, but it's really unlikely they'd have included the extra month of premium time and such in that case.

[Wintersdark]

1453 R, on 15 September 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

Heh.

I find it ironic that people are all thinking the Black Knight might actually be a match for the TBR as a laser vomitist, cXL exempted for the moment...but the Bounty Hunter that actually gets a hardpoint to add a Gauss to the mix is considered a complete, dismal failure as a potential laser vomitist.

Either Sphere beamvomit is garbage and can't ever compete, or it's approaching Clan levels. One or the other, folks. I have my own opinions, but frankly if the Bounty Hunter is unrecoverable garbage because too much E and not enough B, why is the Black Knight so revolutionary?

People think that? People who know what the hell they're talking about?

I don't think so. Unless the Black Knight has crazy quirks, it's not going to touch TBR's for laser vomit. The Bounty Hunter is a dismal failure for laser vomit because I can't possibly cool it's lasers even without a Gauss Rifle. It's a little better now, but still a poor laser vomit mech.

Agent 0 Fortune aside, nobody here things 6E BH2's are going to be cleaning up. It's just not going to happen. You need a big engine (particularly IS side) to make laser vomit work because you need many DHS... 3 slot DHS? In engine ones save LOTS of slots.

And no, IS Laser Vomit doesn't have to be "garbage" or "approaching clan levels"; there's a world of grey in there.

It's not as good as Clan laser vomit, excepting a few really heavily quirked mechs. In unquirked mechs, IS laser vomit is just bad. "Average" quirked mechs are still inferior at laser vomit compared to the good clan mechs like the Timberwolf, but not by a huge margin. The simply superior clan lasers ensure it.