566 replies to this topic

[bad arcade kitty]

is laser vomit mechs usually are much cooler, feels like a breeze

[GreyNovember]

So STD 300, 4ML, 3AC5 with 5 tons of ammo for the 3R?

Possibly AC20 and 6ML for the BH2 then?

Because running this thing with gauss and XL is like doing it in an atlas.

[bad arcade kitty]

i would rather drop 2 ml for 2 additional tons of ammo
depends on ballistic quirks though
possibly 6 tons of ammo and 3 ml

Edited by bad arcade kitty, 15 September 2015 - 05:59 PM.

[1453 R]

Wintersdark, on 15 September 2015 - 05:38 PM, said:

People think that? People who know what the hell they're talking about?

I don't think so. Unless the Black Knight has crazy quirks, it's not going to touch TBR's for laser vomit. The Bounty Hunter is a dismal failure for laser vomit because I can't possibly cool it's lasers even without a Gauss Rifle. It's a little better now, but still a poor laser vomit mech.

Agent 0 Fortune aside, nobody here things 6E BH2's are going to be cleaning up. It's just not going to happen. You need a big engine (particularly IS side) to make laser vomit work because you need many DHS... 3 slot DHS? In engine ones save LOTS of slots.

And no, IS Laser Vomit doesn't have to be "garbage" or "approaching clan levels"; there's a world of grey in there.

It's not as good as Clan laser vomit, excepting a few really heavily quirked mechs. In unquirked mechs, IS laser vomit is just bad. "Average" quirked mechs are still inferior at laser vomit compared to the good clan mechs like the Timberwolf, but not by a huge margin. The simply superior clan lasers ensure it.

Being fair, what I meant was that Sphere laser vomit cannot be simultaneously complete garbage and approaching Clan levels. Personally, my own opinion is that Sphere beamvomit, sans quirks, is not competitive with Clan examples of same, no. I wish it was - I like lasers, it's one of the big reasons I run Clans now. High-speed laser machines are among my favorite machines, but until the Clans showed up and for a stretch of time afterwards, the Sphere meta was all about pushing engine size down to the absolute bare scrape-the-bottom minimum your machine could realistically tolerate, avoid lasers like plague victims, and cram as many ballistic weapons, including PPCs, on your machine as you could manage.

Nobody else remembers 250STD Shadow Hawks and then proceeds to shudder in horror?

Anyways. No, I don't think the Knight will hold up to the TBR, even if one discounts the cXL thing, but I've seen plenty of folks who do. And who knows - maybe when Piranha gets done beating the TBR into the ground in the Clan/IS balance pass, they'll be right.

[GreyNovember]

I -really- don't think the marauder needs a ballistic quirk.

It being high mounted like that, with a variant that can have 3 of them in a torso, is a pretty banging quirk as is.

[Wintersdark]

1453 R, on 15 September 2015 - 06:00 PM, said:

Being fair, what I meant was that Sphere laser vomit cannot be simultaneously complete garbage and approaching Clan levels.

Well, it can though, that's my point. With the silly quirk system we have, IS laser vomit ranges from exception to downright awful, depending entirely on the mech and it's quirks.

It's the crappy part about quirks, really, that you can't have faction wide weapon discussions anymore.

[ExplicitContent]

Just want to point out, 27 pages in 2 days... just, wow

[Bishop Steiner]

1453 R, on 15 September 2015 - 06:00 PM, said:

Being fair, what I meant was that Sphere laser vomit cannot be simultaneously complete garbage and approaching Clan levels. Personally, my own opinion is that Sphere beamvomit, sans quirks, is not competitive with Clan examples of same, no. I wish it was - I like lasers, it's one of the big reasons I run Clans now. High-speed laser machines are among my favorite machines, but until the Clans showed up and for a stretch of time afterwards, the Sphere meta was all about pushing engine size down to the absolute bare scrape-the-bottom minimum your machine could realistically tolerate, avoid lasers like plague victims, and cram as many ballistic weapons, including PPCs, on your machine as you could manage.

Nobody else remembers 250STD Shadow Hawks and then proceeds to shudder in horror?

Anyways. No, I don't think the Knight will hold up to the TBR, even if one discounts the cXL thing, but I've seen plenty of folks who do. And who knows - maybe when Piranha gets done beating the TBR into the ground in the Clan/IS balance pass, they'll be right.

once poptarting was no longer a thing, neither were 250 std Shadowhawlks. If we were still in a Poptart Meta, I guess a slow JJ MAD could have some use.

Hasn't been a JJ Meta in a LONG time, has it?

bad arcade kitty, on 15 September 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

is laser vomit mechs usually are much cooler, feels like a breeze

usually have crappy range, and without insane quirks don't come close to matching Clan Vomit, either.

[Gas Guzzler]

bad arcade kitty, on 15 September 2015 - 05:39 PM, said:

is laser vomit mechs usually are much cooler, feels like a breeze

That is actually a myth. To bring comparable firepower, you have less heatsinks, so while your weapons are cooler, you have less heat efficiency, not to mention you have to get closer to get all the damage which makes it quite a bit harder to hide and cool off.

If you are using a TDR 5SS as a baseline, it has crazy quirks and only a 42 point alpha, not the mid-50s Clan or Grasshopper laser vomit alpha.

[Y E O N N E]

Fantastic, I will buy it next weekend. I have so many ideas! Thank you, ON1-K, for being a cooperative test dummy. Sorry you aren't a better 'Mech.

[Night Thastus]

Bishop Steiner, on 15 September 2015 - 05:20 PM, said:

breaking news....some people have played the game long enough to know a bad design when they see one.

And would rather be proactive and do the whole dang community and PGI a solid in the process.

How that is any fuzz off your nutz, now that is a question to ponder.

I'm sorry, this is just a tad frustrating.

People pout for years about how they can't get the Unseen Mechs. They finally get one, and an OPTIONAL extra, the Hero 'Mech that you'd pay 15$ EXTRA for, has a low engine cap, as dictated by the actual construction of the 'Mech.

And people actually bother to complain about it? Holy **** people, you got the Marauder! Be happy! Who cares if one variant, not even one of the main ones, has a low engine cap? It isn't unplayable, and it isn't terrible! If you can't f*cking play it with a 275, maybe it isn't the 'Mech for you!

You know what's the real kicker though? Tell them to change something because of better balance, or just add general features, and you'll never get an ear. The moment you dislike something you want to buy? Hot damn, do you ever have their attention!

[Gas Guzzler]

Night Thastus, on 15 September 2015 - 07:34 PM, said:

I'm sorry, this is just a tad frustrating.

People pout for years about how they can't get the Unseen Mechs. They finally get one, and an OPTIONAL extra, the Hero 'Mech that you'd pay 15$ EXTRA for, has a low engine cap, as dictated by the actual construction of the 'Mech.

And people actually bother to complain about it? Holy **** people, you got the Marauder! Be happy! Who cares if one variant, not even one of the main ones, has a low engine cap? It isn't unplayable, and it isn't terrible! If you can't f*cking play it with a 275, maybe it isn't the 'Mech for you!

You know what's the real kicker though? Tell them to change something because of better balance, or just add general features, and you'll never get an ear. The moment you dislike something you want to buy? Hot damn, do you ever have their attention!

1) Nothing dictates the engine cap, other than an arbitrary rule that doesn't get followed every once in awhile.
2) We are happy, they listened and decided it would be more balanced to be able to run a 300 size engine.

[Bishop Steiner]

Night Thastus, on 15 September 2015 - 07:34 PM, said:

I'm sorry, this is just a tad frustrating.

People pout for years about how they can't get the Unseen Mechs. They finally get one, and an OPTIONAL extra, the Hero 'Mech that you'd pay 15$ EXTRA for, has a low engine cap, as dictated by the actual construction of the 'Mech.

And people actually bother to complain about it? Holy **** people, you got the Marauder! Be happy! Who cares if one variant, not even one of the main ones, has a low engine cap? It isn't unplayable, and it isn't terrible! If you can't f*cking play it with a 275, maybe it isn't the 'Mech for you!

You know what's the real kicker though? Tell them to change something because of better balance, or just add general features, and you'll never get an ear. The moment you dislike something you want to buy? Hot damn, do you ever have their attention!

you'll live.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Assuming if this goes well and Harmony Gold keep their crusty mouths shut, I'll be looking forward to this in the future:

So a Black Knight, Marauder, and a Warhammer walk into a bar...and proceed to **** everything up.

Yeah I got mine.

Edited by Sigilum Sanctum, 15 September 2015 - 09:38 PM.

[Chrome Magnus]

Only somewhat related. The Bounty Hunter should give a 30% cbill boost right?

[bad arcade kitty]

Sigilum Sanctum, on 15 September 2015 - 09:37 PM, said:

Assuming if this goes well and Harmony Gold keep their crusty mouths shut, I'll be looking forward to this in the future:

So a Black Knight, Marauder, and a Warhammer walk into a bar...and proceed to **** everything up.

Yeah I got mine.

why does marauder cross the road?

because it can, it's released

[Karl Streiger]

Well you made it - 300XL and ES for the same armament
i

[Lily from animove]

Hmm, Guess this is going to be my standard laservomit mech, (AC10ammo = ML, NARCammo=JJ's) has a bittonnage left, maybe upgrading to MLpulses.


This when I want some more dakka, because I love the sound of an LBX 10

This when wanting to play a fake supernova (+1ERLL in each arm). was putting an BAP in, becaue it has 2 slots left and 2 tons. Whats the max amount of JJ's allowed on the MAD? could probably get 2 more JJ's instead of the BAP.

[Wintersdark]

4jj's.

Heh the sound of the lbx10 is why I'll run 2xlbx10 on my 5m. It's bad, but I don't care.

[Widowmaker1981]

Night Thastus, on 15 September 2015 - 07:34 PM, said:

I'm sorry, this is just a tad frustrating.

People pout for years about how they can't get the Unseen Mechs. They finally get one, and an OPTIONAL extra, the Hero 'Mech that you'd pay 15$ EXTRA for, has a low engine cap, as dictated by the actual construction of the 'Mech.

And people actually bother to complain about it? Holy **** people, you got the Marauder! Be happy! Who cares if one variant, not even one of the main ones, has a low engine cap? It isn't unplayable, and it isn't terrible! If you can't f*cking play it with a 275, maybe it isn't the 'Mech for you!

You know what's the real kicker though? Tell them to change something because of better balance, or just add general features, and you'll never get an ear. The moment you dislike something you want to buy? Hot damn, do you ever have their attention!

In fairness, its probably because no one was buying it. I can only speak for myself, but my thought process was

1) Shall i buy the Hero add on for the standard pack? (because the 3R(S) has no JJs)
2) Check stats for Hero mech
3) See 275 engine cap meaning highlander speeds on a 75 tonner.
4) Realised i would never use it, and didnt buy it - because id rather drive a Mauler or Banshee if im going at that speed.

I didnt complain or ask for it to be changed, i simply didnt buy it because i knew it would suck. Im guessing they sold very few, sensibly realised it was due to the low engine cap and changed it to make the mech usable, if still slow.