61 replies to this topic

[rasak]

Tranquil Winds, on 16 September 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

I thought it was the other way around, CW more profitable than pug. At least for some time, it was.

As a rule of thumb, if you are only interested in earning the maximum amount of c-bills and experience points you should queue up for the normal, non-CW, games.

There might be an exception to this however: during CW events the downtime between rounds is virtually non-existent, all the more so if you have a group with you which sometimes pushes the normal queue wait times beyond those in the CW queue. This combined with low faction rank and consequently fast loyalty rank boosts can translate into quite reasonable earnings that might even surpass those of the normal queue!

However, barring those extraordinary circumstances you should only play CW either because you find the game mechanics of the mode itself superior to the normal modes (I personally consider it to be the best iteration of MWO so far!) or because you absolutely need to get the few MC rewards and items for free.

[gloowa]

The Flying Gecko, on 15 September 2015 - 09:04 PM, said:

TL;DR
If you consistently get ~800 damage (or less), I recommend the solo queue!

Fixed it for you.

[KT4]

OK, so as a PUG (not in any unit) I try to do CW when I can. It's fun, completely different than PUGging, and involves more tactics and skill.

I'm pretty new, but, I feel like I'm not a bad player. Except, I only get about 580-600 per match with all 4 mechs.

I don't do stupid things like rush in by myself. I target enemies that are already being shot by my teammates, I don't poke. I have a meta build (timberwolf-s) and it's my highest damage earner (normally 250-350). But that's because I'm gaussing from halfway across the map.

I always drop with a kit-fox for AMS/ECM to support my team from LRMs. But, I don't really get any damage with that mech. So, I just pretend it doesn't count. Maybe I'll get 120, but normally it's less.

I don't know what else to do. I torso twist, and normally lose at least a side torso before I'm killed. But, I feel like the second I stand still, I'm getting rocketed by AC fire.

Any tips?

[Chados]

The Basilisk, on 16 September 2015 - 05:37 AM, said:

This is exactly the kind of talk ( as true as it may be ) that leaves CW dieing.
The community does not even come close to an averange of 250dmg per mech in cw. ( Or in any other game mode on a regular basis )
Its just that most ppl dont play cw.
Those you see regularly in cw are either unit fragments or smal minority of ppl playing cw cause they either are normaly beeing carried by their unit in cw ( like me ), just trying cw for fun, or accumulating loyality points.
So what ?
Either you put restrictions up to prevent 75% of the players from playing CW ( wich should by then be renamed ) because their averange performance stinks or you accept that trained and coordinated units rob the fun from the vast majority of the players, who also would want a decent chance in this game mode.
That would mean braking up large groups ( an option I find to be unacceptable )

So what....I just dont know

The gap between high performers and learners is too large and the playerbase too smal for large scale CW

Lets see what phase 3 and steam brings.

Edit: I realy realy think you should come down from your high horses.
What is most annoying in most casual games ( and MWO is handled as casual game by pgi even if i think thats completely bulll ) are overperforming players ranting and raving about the noobness of averange players.
When I'm out teampugging at my evenings with some guys from my unit its mostly just the ruination of that evening to run into some 12 man well known unit team. Its just annoying. Sure we try, but for me the greatest amount of fun would be when our whole team would just disconnect.
Stomp denied, go bully someone else.

I have to agree. It's the elitist attitudes like this poster refers to that are the reason you have people who won't even TRY CW games. I won't touch CW with a ten-foot pole and without full MOPP gear on, unless I'm dropping with my unit (all of whom are far, far better at this game than I am). Most of the time I'm 450-750 for the four 'mechs I bring. You're up against much better players with full elited 'mechs and a lot of coordination, and most of my owned 'mechs aren't through elites yet other than the Catapults and I don't have a lot of modules yet, plus when you're IS vs the Clans you're already at a major tech disadvantage.

But people gotta learn someplace and if you're not up against the best you won't get better. And the end result of "sucky n00bz n33d to stay the h3ll out of meh gam3z!!1!1!1" is, after a couple weeks, a whine thread in General Discussions here-posted by the same players-about how long match wait times in CW are getting, and "we need to let 8-mans drop together in the solo PUG queue because we can't get matches with our friends anymore and the game is dying!!!1!1!1"

Pick your poison. You think the Underhive is bad NOW. Wait til Steam. Present Underhivers will look to you like 228 and SJR in comparison and you will BEG us to hook up our steering wheels and join you in queue. It'll be "Remember the good old days, when the Underhivers actually showed up to play once in awhile?" And it'll be even worse when PvE releases. You'll hear the crickets chirping in the Emerald Taiga.

[Kin3ticX]

KT4, on 17 September 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

OK, so as a PUG (not in any unit) I try to do CW when I can. It's fun, completely different than PUGging, and involves more tactics and skill.

I'm pretty new, but, I feel like I'm not a bad player. Except, I only get about 580-600 per match with all 4 mechs.

I don't do stupid things like rush in by myself. I target enemies that are already being shot by my teammates, I don't poke. I have a meta build (timberwolf-s) and it's my highest damage earner (normally 250-350). But that's because I'm gaussing from halfway across the map.

I always drop with a kit-fox for AMS/ECM to support my team from LRMs. But, I don't really get any damage with that mech. So, I just pretend it doesn't count. Maybe I'll get 120, but normally it's less.

I don't know what else to do. I torso twist, and normally lose at least a side torso before I'm killed. But, I feel like the second I stand still, I'm getting rocketed by AC fire.

Any tips?

check out the pinned guide thread on the CW forum. Focus in on the decks. I try to make it as creative as possible within reason. I really like 65/65/65/45 tonnages for both Clan and IS. That reminds me the EBJs are here for cbills so I need to update something.

Edited by Kin3ticX, 17 September 2015 - 11:16 AM.

[IIIuminaughty]

I'm gonna say this in only one part of defense for those that are pugging, these pugs not going to listen to those that are screaming and yelling at them telling they are noobs and to do better and saying everyone sucks (I have spotted a good amount of you guys that do that on this thread right now) they are not going to listen to you. You guys need to find a way to communicate better without being **** heads, I had to let some of you guys know in the game about how you guys act. I don't care if you are the best player or not, stop talking to people like you are a god, your not. I know you guys like to flex and think everyone on this game is little kids, they're not most, of us are 21 and older.

Edited by IIIuminaughty, 17 September 2015 - 11:20 AM.

[Helsbane]

Always aim for 2K damage and 10 kills. You may not get them, but your contribution will always be far better than the average pilot.

[Khereg]

KT4, on 17 September 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

Any tips?

Check the link in my signature. The number one thing inexperienced players can do to improve is to bring better builds to CW. There's a whole section on Clan builds in that link. Read it, know it, live it.

Learn the maps. Go to them in training grounds and look for the best sight lines when advancing and defending on all maps.

Also make sure you're getting at least 30 FPS when playing.

Then you can start working on positioning and tactics.

Good luck.

[KT4]

Khereg, on 17 September 2015 - 11:24 AM, said:

Check the link in my signature. The number one thing inexperienced players can do to improve is to bring better builds to CW. There's a whole section on Clan builds in that link. Read it, know it, live it.

Learn the maps. Go to them in training grounds and look for the best sight lines when advancing and defending on all maps.

Also make sure you're getting at least 30 FPS when playing.

Then you can start working on positioning and tactics.

Good luck.

Thanks buddy

[Soulos]

Look, I understand how both sides of this topic feel. Crappy pugs make it very hard to win and do well myself. At the same time, how are they going to get better without playing? I really wish we had more than just fixing their decks. Sadly, it just doesn't do a lot to help. Bad players in metamechs.com mechs ain't gonna do a lot better then before. To follow that up, I have no idea how to fix the issue. Telling them nicely how to improve hasn't done me much good. Yelling at them calling them bad also doesn't seem to help. Really, if someone has a unit program that turns bads into average please post what it is.

[Colonel ONeill]

KT4, on 17 September 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

Any tips?

watch videos/replays of good players. that helps a lot!
rethink your config (DPI, FPS,..)

[STEF_]

LordNothing, on 16 September 2015 - 05:10 AM, said:

I consider anything under four digits bad. 1200 or so is pretty common for any games

Fix for ya

[TWIAFU]

Colonel ONeill, on 18 September 2015 - 04:38 AM, said:

watch videos/replays of good players. that helps a lot!
rethink your config (DPI, FPS,..)

What are you up to now?

Second time kicked off Leaderboards for DC's? Or is it third time now?

[Murphy7]

In a CW match last night, got beat 30-48 in a Hold Territory on Grim Portico

Only got 2 kills, did 1200+ damage - I felt like most of the match was competitive, with a slight losing edge to start ballooning out on us towards then end. Still in that loss, large majority of our side was four-digit damage with no one under 750 I think.

Asking 150-200 damage per mech used as a minimum bar doesn't seem overly restrictive to me.

[Khereg]

Building on Kin3ticX's graph, we happened to have a match last night I would consider close to ideal in terms of team balance. It's not about how lopsided the win was, but about how each member of the team did their part. The damage spread was fantastic and the number of mechs used per person was very balanced (meaning everybody was presenting and taking their share of the return fire - no hiders).




A couple of points to illustrate what we've been talking about in this tread:

* This match was actually pretty close: 48 - 35 is not a blowout. The losing team had several very good players on it (some friends included) and they worked well as a team.

* You can see that basically 3 people on the losing team had a sub-par outing and those 3 made the difference, so the discussion about bringing your share of the damage is real. Not trying to name and shame, but if those 3 had been able to contribute 600+ dmg each, this game would have been a nailbiter.

* For the winning side, everyone did 900+ dmg. That's the goal. It's one reason we talk a lot about playing in units, because you have a better shot at having teammates who will carry their weight. Also, when you join a unit and actively communicate, your unit-mates will help you identify specific ways you can improve to acheive this kind of performance.

* Also on the winning side, only 1 person was perma-dead after 35 kills (and I'm pretty sure he got a little careless when the win looked certain). That shows that everyone participated but didn't throw away their mechs. The damage-taking was as evenly distributed as the damage-dealing. I think this point often gets overlooked.

This was a fun match for our side. I'm glad we won, but I hope our opponents felt good about it, too. They did very well considering it was a pretty mixed group.

Edited to add: The damage totals for each team are instructive, too. The winning side did 15,406 and the losing side did 13,276 (pretty even, really). You can frequently win matches with 12k - 13k in total damage, so I think this shows there was a lot of poking and good damage rolling from both sides to help keep mechs alive longer. I know i was working hard to spread damage and had to settle for a lot of sub-optimal shots.

Just a really solid match all around. Thought I'd share.

Edited by Khereg, 18 September 2015 - 07:55 AM.

[Chagatay]

Practice makes perfect. Insert carry harder Atlas image here.

[Nerdboard]

Kira_Onime, on 16 September 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

CW in general is not a good way to farm Cbills.

I think that really depends on both how good you are and which faction you are in. I agree that the waiting times can be horrible. But some people pull 2000+ dmg consistently even if their team gets crushed (Hi Mordin ;]), so I guess then its not too bad. Pub que just seems a lot more inconsistent to me.

I will agree though that for many people pubbing (and/or pugging) might be more profitable.


Just to not be fully offtopic: Yes, below 400 is bad. I do have veeery bad games sometimes. Games were I make all the wrong decisions and my team gets crushed. Usually even in those you can get 600 I guess? Normally scoring 1000 and above should be the aim I think.

Edited by Nerdboard, 22 September 2015 - 06:41 AM.

[Kira Onime]

Nerdboard, on 22 September 2015 - 06:37 AM, said:

I think that really depends on both how good you are

"Power farming" the solo queue is much better.
Prem time + Hero mech and just spam the queue with it. Play until you die and when you do, change into an other hero mech and play an other game.

[Widowmaker1981]

Nerdboard, on 22 September 2015 - 06:37 AM, said:

I think that really depends on both how good you are and which faction you are in. I agree that the waiting times can be horrible. But some people pull 2000+ dmg consistently even if their team gets crushed (Hi Mordin ;]), so I guess then its not too bad. Pub que just seems a lot more inconsistent to me.

I will agree though that for many people pubbing (and/or pugging) might be more profitable.

With non absurd queue times (<5 mins), CW is easily the best money for me, but i rarely get less than 800k from a single CW game (unless ghost drop). Tukkayid as Clan was literally a C-Bill fountain, i think i made over 80 million that weekend.

[Ghogiel]

KT4, on 17 September 2015 - 10:39 AM, said:

Any tips?

Get playing with other players much better than you and try to beat them, get rekt a lot, be objective about it and adapt. And get rekt some more.

Basically any unit that does or wants to do comp, even if not all that successful but doesn't have any hitlers or drama queens as officers that actualy does scrims and closed lobby practice with other units is probably the next stage after you pug around a lot. (team orientated play is related but separate skill to puglord style play.)