53 replies to this topic

[Speedy Plysitkos]

SOLO queue ---->

[Revis Volek]

Lots fo anectodal evidence in this thread...

I have been crusing the IS circuit for about 5 weeks now, I have yet to see what you see from any of the clans its more like 50/50 12 and mixed groups.

I may see 2-3 12 mans a night(true 12 mans, not some pugs nightmare of just 12 guys from clan wolf he thinks are a 12 man because they have the same picture) but i also see anywhere from 5-6 pug drops a night. I win about 65% of my CW matches and some of them are even against 12 mans (there are some really bad units in CW).

We have kicked a certain Wolf units teeth in time and time again as a small 2, 3 or 4 man (biggest we get is 5) so without some HARD evidence all anecdotal replies seem to go against what i experience as a solo or small group player in the CW queue.


FYI CW isnt the place to go find bads, the solo queue is.

[Lazor Sharp]

LOL this same ole LAME A** BS

Just had a 41 page thread about this topic......

http://mwomercs.com/...s/page__st__800

and what did Russ Say in the Town Hall....?
Wanted to Keep 2 - 12 mans in group Q............

So, SAY it Again Sam,

If Ya Cant Beat a Bigger Unit/Group, than join a bigger Unit/Group, and learn to play as a team, with team work, in a TEAM Based Game...

If playing with so many random 2-5 man pugs that you may never play with ever again, is not doing it for ya, than join a unit, and play with the same players, for more than ONE game, and practicing with them, day after day, learning to play with coordination, as a TEAM, in a TEAM based game....!!!!!!!!!

whats so Damn Hard to understand about that...???

The Solo / Rambo / PUGLandia ONLY, or Bust Mentality, is VERY Strong in this Team Based game...... and that is so sad..... This could be such a better game if it was mostly 8- 12 mans, with a few 2 to 4 mans here and there...... vs the Sad State of PUGLandia that we have now.....

Edited by Lazor Sharp, 17 September 2015 - 09:44 AM.

[Nightmare1]

I ran group drops with my Unit all weekend (mostly 4 to 8-mans) and didn't see a single 12-Man. I think this is a hyped-up, phantom problem that really doesn't need fixing.

[Lugh]

One of my favorite drops came not long after I started playing again ~4 months ago.

Me and three others from my unit dropping came up against a group of 10 of others from the unit.
We won. Our Pugs worked well with us.

So much fun.

[Lykaon]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 16 September 2015 - 12:26 PM, said:

Im seeing more 12 man farming in the group queue than Ive seen in at least the past month of CW.

REALLY dissuading me from wanting to play group queue and this is supposed to be a team game. Maybe we need a return of the 12 man group queue cause dropping against vastly superior giant teams and getting my ass handed to me game after game is really making me no longer want to play

12 man groups can not be farming the group queue because groups even 12 mans are in the group queue exclusivley.Since the 12 man group has NO WAY of causing the other team to be made up of several smaller groups it can not be farming.

Puggies cried and cried about groups farming in the queue so they got their way. only groups of four in the puggie queue and 12 mans were sent off to 12 man group island.

Then Puggies cried and cried about 4 man groups farming in the "puggie" queue ( these pugs immediatley took ownership of this subdivided queue and who can blame them they get spoonfed whatever they cry for so of course they feel entitled) so again they got their way and groups were sent off to a groups only queue.

Puggies cried and cried about Elo matchmaker so it was changed to PSR and still the puggies cry meanwhile groups get to "enjoy" vastly longer game searches but puggies don't care they are entitled after all.

And now there is group queue crying about groups using the only queue left to them to use?

Ok fine let's all get our own queue so we can all be special delicate snowflakes!

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Boulangerie, on 17 September 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:

however for those just hoping to grind cbills, I can see that the shorter times in between matches might be more appealing.

Doesnt work if youre being matched with the same ppl that are pounding the **** out f you 12-0 for 3 or 4 games in a row. Then you want the better match even IF youre grinding Cbills cause youre getting jack **** until it matches you with a new group

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Lykaon, on 17 September 2015 - 04:20 PM, said:

12 man groups can not be farming the group queue because groups even 12 mans are in the group queue exclusivley.Since the 12 man group has NO WAY of causing the other team to be made up of several smaller groups it can not be farming.

Since PSR Ive gotten groups comprised of the same guys upwards of 8 times in a row. Given that I asked Russ why this keeps happening and he said it was working as intended because I was being matched with like skilled people. Now you hit a bad streak where youre matched against the same 12 man that many times, THATS how you farm.

Dont pretend ignorance please, ppl are smarter than youre pretending.

[Anachronda]

Tarl Cabot, on 16 September 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

The issue is how to form the larger groups/co-opts. Yes, there is "The LFG" but that tells you nothing about the player, no conversation until the person is in the group. Drop in a good match and want to try to group up? Better do a screenshot so ya can spell those dracs/swiners/cubs/chicks players' names correctly cause you will be dropped back into the netherworld.

No real Chat interface for those to interact who do not want to form a permanent unit. Basically a lobby/bar (MPBT Solaris) type system. Make a public, non-CW queue Solaris setup, or something that would make sense in the Battletech/Mechwarrior universe.

It's actually worse than that, if you think about it. I had been in a unit, and almost everyone I drop with is in a unit, but we can't communicate with one another outside of matches because it is not the same unit. The in-game chat system is designed to be ignored. It flashes when there is nothing to show and it's pretty close to impossible to find what it was flashing about if you are willing to look in those cases where it flashed for a reason. Chat sessions and messages do not survive. The in-match chat system has three separate transitions which, if you are typing when one happens, your typing is lost. And people have to still be in the match to even see it. In fact lately I don't see the in-game text chat at all because it flashes on the screen and goes away in a blink of an eye. If I want to see it I have to hit a key like I am typing another message, so the stupid messages will even show.

Faction chat would help, except once again not only can you not see it unless you go to the CW screen, everything in it disappears between matches. If someone was talking in faction chat and I was in a match, I would not see it. I have used it successfully a few times, but as soon as we drop it may as well be a whole new world. And there, again, it only works for people in your faction. In the regular queue factions don't matter, and in CW queue different factions would work together but can't.

I know this is a thread about the regular group queue but there is another thing that has annoyed the hell out of me. It is perfectly normal for multiple factions to be able to drop on the same planet for the same purpose - for instance any IS faction can defend against Clans and allied factions can defend against IS incursions (the same situation being true for Clan factions), but they cannot form an actual group so they can work together. You can't form a CW group with anyone who is not in your faction. So even if people were doing well together, and you finally found some people who want to communicate and work together, you can't group with them. They also removed the ability to drop a CW group into the regular queue for no good reason, so between cease fires the whole group has to be reformed and there again everyone needs to be on the friends' list to be invited unless they're in LFG. But unless you remember or write down with a pen and paper the people who were in the group, good luck reforming it.

I'd have to say getting a group together and keeping it together is the most stressful and time consuming part of this game. What we usually do is try to get everyone to cooperate with being on teamspeak, because at least then we have a list of who is supposed to be in the group and a reliable means to communicate. We've found that when you rely on the in-game methods you may as well not even try.

[LordNothing]

try attacking. you usually end up fighting pugs, at least more than you would in defense games.

[Anachronda]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 16 September 2015 - 04:46 PM, said:

...theres never anyone IN it from what Ive been seeing lately

That's true, too. People mainly use it as a shortcut. If I'm in a group and we're trying to find new members, we hit up our friends and unit, and ask them to join lfg. Then we snipe them. You have to constantly rejoin lfg, as I recall, after every match. You can't just join it and then drop a quick match while you are waiting. If you want the group in LFG, the group leader has to do it.

But you can't designate group leaders. When the leader loses his connection or leaves, the next person who joined becomes leader and if you wanted someone different you have to reform the whole group. And of course all the invites you sent die because the group is considered a new group. In any case, LFG isn't really usable for finding groups or for inviting others. It's mainly a shorthand that obviates the need for the latest leader to type every single member in the friend request, wait for it to be accepted, then wait for the new guy to send a message since the friend list is still bugged and will not show that person online until they do. No one even can hang out in LFG even if they wanted to because it is broken, so no one does. You can't even see it if you're not in it, either, as I recall.

[El Bandito]

The PSR should always treat 12-man groups as Tier 1.

[Anachronda]

DarthRevis, on 17 September 2015 - 07:34 AM, said:

Lots fo anectodal evidence in this thread...

I have been crusing the IS circuit for about 5 weeks now, I have yet to see what you see from any of the clans its more like 50/50 12 and mixed groups.

I may see 2-3 12 mans a night(true 12 mans, not some pugs nightmare of just 12 guys from clan wolf he thinks are a 12 man because they have the same picture) but i also see anywhere from 5-6 pug drops a night. I win about 65% of my CW matches and some of them are even against 12 mans (there are some really bad units in CW).

We have kicked a certain Wolf units teeth in time and time again as a small 2, 3 or 4 man (biggest we get is 5) so without some HARD evidence all anecdotal replies seem to go against what i experience as a solo or small group player in the CW queue.


FYI CW isnt the place to go find bads, the solo queue is.

You're not reading it correctly. I ran into someone recently who had this same misunderstanding. Clans are a set of factions just like inner sphere. Seeing a bunch of ghost bear or jade falcon doesn't mean they are always together and not seeing them doesn't mean they are not. What you want to look at is units. If units are the same, they are likely part of the same group. But you can't go by that, either. Groups are very often mixed. Eventually you might get to know individual players and when you see that player, even if the group on the other side is mixed they are probably in a large group if not a 12 man. You can also tell by how they play, because when people work together it is pretty obvious. Usually a team that works together well is all on teamspeak because the in-game tools are mostly inadequate for real coordination and are unusable between matches.

The other thing that might tip you off is when you drop in a number of matches and see the same set of names always being on the same side, that means they are in a group together. If they aren't on the same side they were just multiple groups glued together by match maker.

As far as CW goes, attackers are ALWAYS part of the same group. Defenders may or may not be. But we're talking about the regular drop queue right now. I'd say the solution is probably not so much to mess with match maker as to make the communication and grouping tools usable. After reading what Russ said, I don't know what we could do to prevent newer players in group queue from going against comp teams, since it would require you to be limited in who you can group with and still would result in longer wait times. So for now, if you are in the group queue you are gonna be treated like a comp team and required to put on your big boy pants and suck it up .

[Anachronda]

Lazor Sharp, on 17 September 2015 - 08:28 AM, said:

LOL this same ole LAME A** BS

Just had a 41 page thread about this topic......

http://mwomercs.com/...s/page__st__800

and what did Russ Say in the Town Hall....?
Wanted to Keep 2 - 12 mans in group Q............

So, SAY it Again Sam,

If Ya Cant Beat a Bigger Unit/Group, than join a bigger Unit/Group, and learn to play as a team, with team work, in a TEAM Based Game...

If playing with so many random 2-5 man pugs that you may never play with ever again, is not doing it for ya, than join a unit, and play with the same players, for more than ONE game, and practicing with them, day after day, learning to play with coordination, as a TEAM, in a TEAM based game....!!!!!!!!!

whats so Damn Hard to understand about that...???

The Solo / Rambo / PUGLandia ONLY, or Bust Mentality, is VERY Strong in this Team Based game...... and that is so sad..... This could be such a better game if it was mostly 8- 12 mans, with a few 2 to 4 mans here and there...... vs the Sad State of PUGLandia that we have now.....

I would be inclined to agree with you, except I would add one aside. The problem I have seen is there is a pretty low population in this game. Unit sizes are pretty small as a rule with only a very few famous exceptions. I play with some pretty well known guys and units at times and they are partly playing with me because their unit can't field a 12 man at the time. I've managed to build a pretty long list of friends, but even there we become limited to maybe one or two people of each other's friends' lists to group with. I don't mean it to sound like QQing, I mean, obviously if one side can field a 12 man the other can maybe do it, but it is not as easy as you are claiming. Hell, even the people I regularly see playing against me in the group queue, who always field a 10-12 man group, that group is usually made up of 3-5 different units and unaffiliated buddies.