169 replies to this topic

[Nightmare1]

I just don't understand the stupidity I'm seeing! Just had an Assault Match on Mining Collective. Several pilots commented that they needed their match scores for that map. So what happens? The stupid Pugs go cap the base! Sheesh. I know it's Assault, but you'd think folks would be a bit more Event minded at least!

[Squarebasher]

It's not just the likelihood of getting that last map/score, but also there are so many players not playing if they get a map they already have the points for.

[Sorbic]

woot. Just got Crimson Strait for the second time of the entire event AND got the needed match score! Sweet jebus that was ridiculous...

[LORD ORION]

Mawai, on 18 September 2015 - 10:36 AM, said:

Hi All,

Once again PGI fails at math.

http://mwomercs.com/tournaments

We have a territorial challenge this weekend where you need to get a match score or 300+ and 400+ on each of 9 maps in the public queue in order to get a prize.

Sounds good right? Maybe 20 games if you get good results ... maybe 40 if you only make the match score on half?

Unfortunately wrong since it doesn't factor in the random selection of maps. It is most likely that you will be hard pressed to get that last map you need and getting that last map is usually going to take a while.

Here is a link to the math ...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coupon_collector's_problem

TLDR ... to get one match on each of the 9 maps will on average require on average 26 matches (sometimes a lot more) and that doesn't factor in whether you make the match score or not.

Getting 2 matches on each is the same as collecting 18 coupons in the table so on average it will take 63 matches just to get 2 matches on each map.

NOW factor in the match score.

How easy is it to get a match score of 300? 400? Do you see that 50% of the time? More? Less? Factor that in and you will need upwards of 120 matches in the public queue to complete just the public queue challenges.

Given how long a CW match takes ... it will take about 38 matches to get 2 games on each of the 6 maps. Hope it is easy to get a match score of 200 or 300 since with requiring an average of 38 CW matches seems to me will take most of the weekend just to see the maps.

LOL. PGI and math just do not go together.

I suspect there may be an IMMENSE amount of FRUSTRATION with this current tournament as the weekend rolls on ... as folks try to get that last match on that last map with the minimum required match score. A few will get lucky ... the rest ... well I will leave that to your imagination.

You're assuming the maps are weighted equally... they aren't. PGI missed something (conjecture is they forgot about client datafile weights)

Forest and Caustic are much lower in the rotation (probably appearing around 33% less than they should)
Tourmaline, Canyon and Mining Collective are much higher, appearing around 11% more than they should)

Edited by LORD ORION, 20 September 2015 - 08:14 AM.

[ChewBaka]

Nightmare1, on 20 September 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

I just don't understand the stupidity I'm seeing! Just had an Assault Match on Mining Collective. Several pilots commented that they needed their match scores for that map. So what happens? The stupid Pugs go cap the base! Sheesh. I know it's Assault, but you'd think folks would be a bit more Event minded at least!

The first time that happened to me, I unchecked Assault.

[Kira Onime]

LORD ORION, on 20 September 2015 - 08:13 AM, said:

You're assuming the maps are weighted equally... they aren't. PGI missed something (conjecture is they forgot about client datafile weights)

Well here are the 2 sides of the coin.

Heads - Players feelings that the maps are nto weighted equally.
Tails - PGI saying they are.

You cannot take the vocal minority complaints as solid fact as they do not speak for everyone.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

i finished it up last night, was a ***** but its totally doable.

[Sjorpha]

Vlad Ward, on 20 September 2015 - 07:08 AM, said:

Well, yes and no. Dual Gauss + Energy is good for damage maxing if you aren't pouring your whole duration into the CT, because CTs all have a set amount of hit points and there's really only so much you can deal while only using optimally accurate fire.



I'm not treating the Gauss Jager like it's a strong Mech by any means btw. It's just an extreme example of the trouble with aiming for killshots which award practically no points at the expense of damage.

A Gauss Dire will definitely put out more damage than a Gauss Jager, since your burst and DPS are both higher and you're getting more of each target to yourself. There's an upper limit on how much damage you can inflict without spreading to other components, though. Intentionally spreading solves that problem - and if you're spreading on purpose, the higher DPS weapon wins.

Assuming a 53~ kph Mech can engage all 12 targets in a match is a bit of a stretch, though (both the crab and dire are slooooow). Unless your tier is significantly more organized than mine, chasing down a bunch of spread out Reds is straight impossible for me most games. I may only get 5-6 total targets in an 8 minute game depending on the map and what the rest of my team's doing (a lot of good positions become less viable if the team runs to the other side of the map).

My solo queue gauss/erll crab goes 62kph, it's my most consistent 1000+ dmg multi kill mech. The Dire I do feel needs a group to shine most of the time, but it certainly has an even higher damage potential than the Crab when there's teamwork.

I'm not really arguing against the theory here, I'm just saying that what I see is the most accurate players doing the most damage, and also my most accurate matches giving ME my highest damage scores.

The fact that the observations don't match the predicted results of the theory tells me there is something wrong, or missing, with the theory.

What would be needed to convince me that bad accuracy=high damage is true in practice is empirical data that shows it is actually the case. More theoretical argument isn't going to cut it as long as I observe the opposite while playing.

Now, it could be that I'm wrong or biased in my observations. It could be that it is actually the less accurate pilots that score the highest damage. But don't currently believe that is the case.

But if I'm right, what could be the missing variable? It could be that inaccurate fire has a higher rate of completely missing with part of the beam/missiles/etc. It could be that spread damage has worse hitreg. It could be that killing mechs has a psychological "in the zone" effect that catalyses the pilots performance the rest of the match. It could be that accurate fire affects the match more so that you get the upper hand, and that upper hand lets you do better trades and score more damage. It could be all of those things or something else.

Edited by Sjorpha, 20 September 2015 - 09:58 AM.

[TLBFestus]

12 matches played last night.

8 of them were on Caustic Valley, which to no ones surprise, I had already gotten my 300.

Stupid random element is really screwing me around.

[Commander A9]

If they'd just remove the map requirement...I find myself cursing PGI's name every time I get a map I don't need.

Talorien here has a brilliant idea for how to fix this event so that everyone isn't so furious and frustrated: http://mwomercs.com/...-fix-for-event/

Edited by Commander A9, 20 September 2015 - 10:19 AM.

[Wrathful Scythe]

I've got it. After playing for hours and hours since yesterday to get Caustic and Viridian I finally got them. I would really love to see the algorithm which decides which map gets picked. I havn't tracked it but I got maps like HPG and Crimson so damn often. I dropped 4 times on Caustic and 3 times on Viridian the whole challenge and that in a playtime of roughly 15 hours. Havn't seen Canyon Network often either but I got this in my first try so no hard feelings there.

I don't feel like I've accomplished something rather I feel stupid. Why did I put that much effort in such a badly thought out event? The goodies aren't even that good.

[I L L]

Have not seen HPG or Forrest all weekend. I have seen Tourmaline, MC and River City once each. I've got over 400 on the ONLY 4 MAPS that I've been getting all weekend though, so that part isn't really the issue.

And the CW portion is pretty silly as well. While maps can be chosen somewhat selectively, you've built in selfishness and 12 mans who are both pug stomping and farming to the last mech wasting everyone's time and ability to get another match, since maybe 3 people on the losing side of a 48-15 match are getting their scores. Basically if you want to get your score, you need to be a 12 man to stomp pugs and not die more than once.

[Mawai]

Kira_Onime, on 20 September 2015 - 07:26 AM, said:

Don't expect to complete it?
Kay




.. oh wait.

Congratulations! You have both the luck to get the maps, the skill or mech to get the score and the TIME to play however many matches were required to do so. Unfortunately, many folks don't fall into those categories (I don't ... particularly the time one) and they will likely not complete it.

Edited by Mawai, 20 September 2015 - 10:58 AM.

[Mawai]

LORD ORION, on 20 September 2015 - 08:13 AM, said:

You're assuming the maps are weighted equally... they aren't. PGI missed something (conjecture is they forgot about client datafile weights)

Forest and Caustic are much lower in the rotation (probably appearing around 33% less than they should)
Tourmaline, Canyon and Mining Collective are much higher, appearing around 11% more than they should)

If that is the case then the situation would be even worse. I hope they didn't make a mistake like that for the sake of everyone playing the tournament.

[Too Much Love]

LORD ORION, on 20 September 2015 - 08:13 AM, said:

You're assuming the maps are weighted equally... they aren't. PGI missed something (conjecture is they forgot about client datafile weights)

Forest and Caustic are much lower in the rotation (probably appearing around 33% less than they should)
Tourmaline, Canyon and Mining Collective are much higher, appearing around 11% more than they should)

I played all at least 6 hours in a raw, but didn't get Mining Collective once. SURPRISINGLY, it's the only map I need to complete challenge.

[Kira Onime]

Mawai, on 20 September 2015 - 10:57 AM, said:

Congratulations! You have both the luck to get the maps, the skill or mech to get the score and the TIME to play however many matches were required to do so. Unfortunately, many folks don't fall into those categories (I don't ... particularly the time one) and they will likely not complete it.

It took me ~6-8 hours to complete.
The event will also run for around 6 days until the patch hits on Tuesday.

I just find it enjoyable to have a challenging event every now and then and honestly, unless you have 10 hour work days, time is not an excuse. The time is there, you simply have to take it.

[Too Much Love]

Ok, just got Mining Collective for the first time in 6 hours! Guess what? Our team was defeated 0-12 in 2 minutes. GG

[ChewBaka]

Well, I have completed tier 2 and I still agree with OP's opinion that this challenge is poorly thought out.

Luck should never be a major factor in these challenges. That they are means PGI intentionally intentionally intended for the majority to not succeed regardless of skill.

What? Getting stingy with the rewards now?

[Absurdia]

8 hours now, gotten forest colony and tourmaline desert once. Once! If ı gotten them 1/3 times ı got the bog or hgp ı would have completed the challenge by now. This has become a f'ing joke. I kinda understand people disconnecting now.

Edited by Absurdia, 20 September 2015 - 12:12 PM.

[Tyranum]

I usually enjoy the weekend events...this is the worst one I can remember. Really awful.