57 replies to this topic

[Spheroid]

The damage would be similar to being hit by an AC-20 plus additional splash damage.

We need Arrows in the game or TAG makes no sense. Expense and needing a spotter means that they would not be directly completing with traditional LRM combat.

What say you?

[Future Perfect]

It's a bit OP?

[EvangelionUnit]

Future Perfect, on 07 July 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

It's a bit OP?

nope, arrow cause lot of heat, and runs out of ammo faster than you can say "AMMO EXPLOSION"
and you can't fit a lot of other weapons on mechs that you want to use for arrow support ...
oh and reloadtime is a ***** xD

[Skadi]

Future Perfect, on 07 July 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

It's a bit OP?

well thats debateable, they can be tweaked, but their in the timeline so theirs no "real" reason they shouldnt make it in.
(then again the mech mounted longtom fits the timeline as well, i doubt we'll see that)

[Future Perfect]

EvangelionUnit, on 07 July 2012 - 01:25 PM, said:

nope, arrow cause lot of heat, and runs out of ammo faster than you can say "AMMO EXPLOSION"
and you can't fit a lot of other weapons on mechs that you want to use for arrow support ...
oh and reloadtime is a ***** xD

It's still a weapon that you can't miss with.

[Sidra]

You know, I JUST had a thread open about topics like this : P

[Davoke]

Arrow IV would be great, it would let us have a long-reaching weapon that could be awesome for fire support

[Wolfclaw]

Future Perfect, on 07 July 2012 - 01:17 PM, said:

It's a bit OP?

They weigh so damn much and produce so much heat that their OP'ness is zero'd out.

[Skadi]

Future Perfect, on 07 July 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

It's still a weapon that you can't miss with.

well the same argument and be made for LRM's, you just need a big enough hill, and yes you can block them ive done it in many mechwarrior games, ontop of that have atleast 3 LAM's on your team and the missile are done and that player is practicaly useless.

[Jakob Knight]

Actually, we know ARROW IV will be in the game, but the homing rounds are another question.

If you look at the Dev Blog 5 Mech Warfare Part 1, you will find this under Weapons Systems:

Projectile Weapons:
Missiles, Artillery

Since the only Artillery weapons that can be carried on a 3050-era mech is an ARROW system, and it is included among the same catagory as Missiles, I think it's a certainty we'll see at least the basic system in the game.

Now, as to wether you can -mount- it with the hardpoint system in place is also another question.

Edited by Jakob Knight, 07 July 2012 - 02:07 PM.

[Skadi]

Jakob Knight, on 07 July 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

Actually, we know ARROW IV will be in the game, but the homing rounds are another question.

If you look at the Dev Blog 5 Mech Warfare Part 1, you will find this under Weapons Systems:

Projectile Weapons:
Missiles, Artillery

Since the only Artillery weapons that can be carried on a 3050-era mech is an ARROW system, and it is included among the same catagory as Missiles, I think it's a certainty we'll see at least the basic system in the game.

Now, as to wether you can -mount- it with the hardpoint system in place is also another question.

Arrow IV Homing Missiles are a variation of Arrow IV missile was first developed by the Terran Hegemony in 2600. It became Lostech during the Succession Wars and was first recovered by the Capellan Confederation in 3044. Designed to be used in conjunction with TAG, it was the artillery missile of choice for the Star League Defense Force due to the prevalence of ECM on the battlefield.^[1]
just further information on homing missiles for readers.

[Spheroid]

I can tell you exactly how to design it in game. Max range would be 5km and in order to get a direct hit a target would need to be lazed by TAG prior to impact or the shell path would go ballastic which could mean kills on slow or immobile targets would be possible but not very likely.

I would make the velocity fairly slow as to encourage moving closer to the front line to improve reaction time between the TAGer and the launcher mechs.

The rounds would choose the closer of multiple lazed targets if there are any.


It would be like SOFLAMing in BF3 but without one hit kills or cheap countermeasures.

Edited by Spheroid, 07 July 2012 - 02:14 PM.

[Skadi]

Spheroid, on 07 July 2012 - 02:11 PM, said:

I can tell you exactly how to design it in game. Max range would be 5km and in order to get a direct hit a target would need to be lazed by TAG prior to impact or the shell path would go ballastic which could means kills on slow or immobile targets would be possible but not very likely.

I would make the velocity fairly slow as to encourage moving closer to the front line to improve reaction time between the TAGer and the launcher mechs.

The rounds would choose the closer of multiple lazed targets if there are any.


It would be like SOFLAMing in BF3 but without one hit kills or cheap countermeasuers.

Depending on esactly how slow you make them that could would, imo people are just traumatized from playing MWLL because its Arrow IV is more like a Meteor

[Lord Cole]

Spheroid, on 07 July 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

The damage would be similar to being hit by an AC-20 plus additional splash damage.

We need Arrows in the game or TAG makes no sense. Expense and needing a spotter means that they would not be directly completing with traditional LRM combat.

What say you?

We do not NEED Arrow IV in game to make TAG effective... Nor would we HAVE to have "Off Board" Artillary... Just semi-guided LRM.

Just my opinion, but I would consider ALL LRMs in a realtime battle to be semi-guided. You are aiming at your target, you are attempting to gain target lock, yes... Even against an actively moving target the LRMs fired are not going to just hit the spot where your target WAS when you fired. Therfore LRMs are Semi-Guided LRMs by default.

In realtime Combat spotter Mechs will need to continiously "paint" the target while their lancemates fire LRMs; HOWEVER, lancemates with the LRMs automatically gain LOS modifiers the spotter Mech has.

I think the game changer will be the spotters whom are most effective in painting targets, clearly we will not see Jenner on Jenner but we will see a lot of Jenner on Cat and Atlas... maybe the occasional Hunchie.

Again, my opinion...


there are a couple speculative posts already addressing this subject:

HERE

and

HERE

**EDIT: poor spelling
***Edit: Rules correction Squigles

Edited by Lord Cole, 07 July 2012 - 02:48 PM.

[Spheroid]

I too want semi-guided LRM but if we stay true to canon we won't see them in game for another eight years, plus in TT semi-guided completely outclasses NARC and I have a great desire to play during the golden age of NARC beacons.

[Bodha]

Future Perfect, on 07 July 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

It's still a weapon that you can't miss with.

not exactly true. if you know arrow 4 is coming you can use buildings to "catch" the missile for you. Arrow 4 doesnt turn corners well you know.

[Squigles]

Lord Cole, on 07 July 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

in TT no mech using TAG may fire any other weapon during the Attack phase that they are using TAG.

Not that this game is strictly following TT rules anyway, but just to make a correction, TAG's aren't fired during the weapon attack phase at all.

They're actually fired between the movement phase and the weapon attack phase, this also happens to be the same time that homing A4 rounds hit which often end up with mechs failing PSR's and eating dirt before they're allowed to fire. Furthermore, not only can mechs using a TAG continue to fire their normal weapons during the weapon attack phase, but there isn't even a penalty involved unlike spotting for indirect fire.

Bodha, on 07 July 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

not exactly true. if you know arrow 4 is coming you can use buildings to "catch" the missile for you. Arrow 4 doesnt turn corners well you know.

Well, assuming A4 homing would work like it does in TT, it would require the A4 round to ride the laser of the TAG to hit it's target, just interpose a barrier between yourself and the tagger, or hit that scout with something really hard and lay it out in the dirt and pray it takes a second for the TAG to shut off and it ends up burying the A4 in the back of the tagger as it paints the ground under itself, lol.

[Spheroid]

Bodha, on 07 July 2012 - 02:25 PM, said:

not exactly true. if you know arrow 4 is coming you can use buildings to "catch" the missile for you. Arrow 4 doesnt turn corners well you know.

You could design maneuverability limits into the Arrow similar how surface to air missiles are modeled in flight sims. If you are running faster or turning at a right angle to the missile there probably is a good chance to evade. 3/5 mechs should be easy marks while 8/12 should be hard to hit unless they are traveling directly towards or away from the path of the missile.

Edited by Spheroid, 07 July 2012 - 02:31 PM.

[Skadi]

Squigles, on 07 July 2012 - 02:29 PM, said:

Well, assuming A4 homing would work like it does in TT, it would require the A4 round to ride the laser of the TAG to hit it's target, just interpose a barrier between yourself and the tagger, or hit that scout with something really hard and lay it out in the dirt and pray it takes a second for the TAG to shut off and it ends up burying the A4 in the back of the tagger as it paints the ground under itself, lol.

Equip narc's, problem solved

[Bishop Steiner]

Yes, they should.

But they will be used AGAINST us first, since the Inner Sphere has not been able to manufacture them or TAG gear since the Second Succession War, some 200 years ago. The Clans on the other hand have the new improved version, which their Freebirth mechwarriors will be glad to rain down on our heads, when they arrive.

The first real appearance in the Inner Sphere, will be when the Com Guards use them at Tukayid, when they defeat the Clans, about 2 years into the games future. It he rest of the Inner Sphere powers are just getting experimental prototypes running, and by the time anyone outside of Liao and Marik get any reasonable access to them, we will be "enjoying" the Truce of Tukayid, just waiting for the Refusal War and the Marik/Liao assault that will sunder the FedCom.

So be careful what you wish for..... as you just might get it!