261 replies to this topic

[RavenKnight86]

Though I'll also admit I saw a few players do this behavior and I was half tempted to TK them when they stayed in a match to grief them the way they kept greifing other players.

[Vlad Ward]

Blueduck, on 21 September 2015 - 06:44 PM, said:

I think you are really underestimating the number of people doing this. All the ones I saw had flags next to their name and each game 2-6 paying players doing it.

Again, in my view, fix the design and set the policy in place going forward. This isn't a school where people have to be their mandatorily.

... Yes. Which is why they're handing out suspensions. Because so many people were doing this.

They even set the disconnect policy in advance. The official tracker was turned off because it was broken, but it's not like PGI turned around and said "btw disconnecting is allowed now thanks". It was already a parameter for disqualification.

I stand by my statement, though. If people are really salty enough to quit MWO over a 24-72 hr suspension, then **** those guys. The forums could do with a little less salt. High user counts are nice, but they're not something to be held for ransom over every little disagreement - especially one where the players involved were clearly in the wrong.

Besides. It really just devalues your argument when you start to sound like the doom and gloomers who predicted the death of MWO after coolant flush, 3PV, LRMgeddon, and Ghost Heat.

[MischiefSC]

riverslq, on 21 September 2015 - 06:24 PM, said:

The olympics doesn't involve RNG.

Actually if a photo finish doesn't determine a winner it gets a coin toss. Diet, weather, there are a billion RNG facets to the Olympics. Order of participation for example, random determination and can dramatically affect your odds - knowing what you've got to beat helps.

So, yes. Grown ups deal with RNG all the time, every day in life. The ability to deal with everything not being handed to you just how you want is one of those skills that adults (hopefully) develop. The term for that literally is 'coping skills'. Not having coping skills does not automatically exclude someone from being held accountable for being unable to cope with an otherwise insignificant challenge.

Which this one. I mean in the context of, well, anything, this was a pretty insignificant inconvenience. Absurdly so.

Exploiting is exploiting. Break the rules, get in trouble. So the response is 'exploit every time you come across something that isn't automatically easy, then afterward say it was too hard to do without exploiting and expect to get away with it'?

No. I knocked out pug queue at 400pts on my first full day of play, by putting in the effort. Same with CW - 100% effort, even on maps I already had. Why? Because I'm not a *****. We're not talking 'signing up for a second tour of duty in a warzone to watch out for your buddies' sort of self respect here, we're not even talking about 'don't pick your nose in front of a live studio audience' amount of self respect. We're talking about 'don't exploit in a computer game because you don't have the patience to deal with random map selection'.

This conversation is embarrassing that it even exists.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

riverslq, on 21 September 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

that's not an assumption.

but your assertion that I cannot live without the internet IS an assumption.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Vlad Ward, on 21 September 2015 - 06:55 PM, said:

... Yes. Which is why they're handing out suspensions. Because so many people were doing this.

They even set the disconnect policy in advance. The official tracker was turned off because it was broken, but it's not like PGI turned around and said "btw disconnecting is allowed now thanks". It was already a parameter for disqualification.

I stand by my statement, though. If people are really salty enough to quit MWO over a 24-72 hr suspension, then **** those guys. The forums could do with a little less salt. High user counts are nice, but they're not something to be held for ransom over every little disagreement - especially one where the players involved were clearly in the wrong.

Besides. It really just devalues your argument when you start to sound like the doom and gloomers who predicted the death of MWO after coolant flush, 3PV, LRMgeddon, and Ghost Heat.

Well, I'm not certain if they were talking about handing them out for past discrepancies or for future ones. Honestly twitter is a pretty poor mechanic for conveying these sorts of announcements as no one can tell what is actually being written.

And I'm not saying it is doom and gloom but will look at it from the standpoint of a business. A certain % of players suspended will not come back, that has a dollar amount associated with it.

This could be the cost of two additional programmers which will get CW Phase 3 out quicker. Wouldn't you like to know this cost before doing this?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

riverslq, on 21 September 2015 - 06:25 PM, said:

yep, you still sound like an

yer right, its not an assumption, its a personal attack

Vlad Ward, on 21 September 2015 - 06:26 PM, said:

Aimbotters aren't suspended. They're banned.

Suspensions are slaps on the wrist. If someone gets one, they can get over it.

So are bans in a free to play game where the ppl giving the bans dont care if the cheaters come back, but if you create a new account to dodge a forum ban, it can net you a ban from the game... How does that make sense?

[MischiefSC]

crashlogic, on 21 September 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

This is really funny if its ironic, and really pathetic if its not. Given the smiley face at the end I will assume its ironic, as mr pot calls mr. kettle black.


If the lottery is rigged, or the lottery system is broken, heel yes you punish the state..you sue them.
PGI is punished by an angry outspoken customer base. They are a business, not the supreme font of all battletech goodness.

It wasn't broken though. It was clear, up front. Do the following things, get the following prizes. Maps are random. You don't want the prize? Don't do the thing.

By the way? I did the thing, got the prizes, didn't cheat. So did tons and tons of people. Amazing, I know.

The problem is that you want the rewards, you just don't want to have to put in the effort. The effort is too hard for you, so you want to cheat to get the prize, and then blame the one offering the prize for making it so hard that you 'had to cheat'.

I bitched a little about random maps but I still did it and played them out, because I'm not a *****. Because that was the challenge; do X and get Y. Your whole argument is that 'I want Y, but I can't handle doing X to get it, so I'm going to exploit and cheat the system and screw hundreds (23 per match) of other people out of their legitimate efforts to do X to make it easier for me to get Y, even though it's explicitly against the rules both in terms of ToS and this event. Oh, and I don't want punished for it because...'

Because what? Flat out what makes you literally incapable of doing what everyone else did to accomplish X? Why, exactly, is exploiting okay for you to get the prize when everyone else did X without exploiting? Why should anyone shafting literally hundreds of other players who were legitimately acting like adults, coping and completing the event be given a pass because, what?

Why do we have to make allowances for some people being that feeble? The event wasn't broken. At all, in any way. It was just challenging. That's it. It's a sad statement about humanity in general that something being hard equates to broken for some people.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Blueduck, on 21 September 2015 - 06:29 PM, said:

I can't due to the recent dev post. Drop on our TS if you're interested and I'll tty offline.

You can send a PM

thats nice an private and wont involve someone doing something you know they wont do so youre nice and safe from needing to provide proof

[Astrocanis]

I haven't been TKed so much in two years. Done for now.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 21 September 2015 - 07:02 PM, said:

You can send a PM

thats nice an private and wont involve someone doing something you know they wont do so youre nice and safe from needing to provide proof

Come on my TS bro, I don't want to use PGI forums or website for it.

Edited by Blueduck, 21 September 2015 - 07:06 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Blueduck, on 21 September 2015 - 06:33 PM, said:

I think you are underestimating the amount of paying customers you might be losing.

I think you are VASTLY underestimating the damage that letting the players who break the rules set the rules by NOT banning them

El Bandito, on 21 September 2015 - 06:38 PM, said:

The DCers and the suiciders deserve their ban.

That said, the ban should not be permanent, and should serve only to teach them not to do it the next time.

Even that doesnt matter when PGI is fine with guys (who were outright cheating by using aimbots) coming back on new accounts.

[Vlad Ward]

Blueduck, on 21 September 2015 - 06:59 PM, said:

Well, I'm not certain if they were talking about handing them out for past discrepancies or for future ones. Honestly twitter is a pretty poor mechanic for conveying these sorts of announcements as no one can tell what is actually being written.

And I'm not saying it is doom and gloom but will look at it from the standpoint of a business. A certain % of players suspended will not come back, that has a dollar amount associated with it.

This could be the cost of two additional programmers which will get CW Phase 3 out quicker. Wouldn't you like to know this cost before doing this?

There are always going to be costs involved in issuing disciplinary action. This is the real world. We know this. They know this.

You know who also might not be coming back? Those inactive players who logged in for the event this weekend only to find themselves playing 9v12 or 8v10 matches because so many people were disconnecting every other game.

They took action because the negative impact certain players' actions were having on the community outweighed the potential cost of upsetting those players. This is pretty much the only time any F2P Dev ever takes large scale disciplinary action aside from egregious cheating (aimbots, wallhacks).

Edited by Vlad Ward, 21 September 2015 - 07:08 PM.

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 21 September 2015 - 07:05 PM, said:

I think you are VASTLY underestimating the damage that letting the players who break the rules set the rules by NOT banning them

Again though, why not fix design and set the policy going forward? Same effect at the end of the day.

[Mystere]

crashlogic, on 21 September 2015 - 05:42 PM, said:

In this case, for this event, I disagree. PGI dropped the ball, and needs to take the heat.
I am not sure DC's are suspendable on first offense even in the TOS? Does anyone know?

Let me make a guess. You were guilty yourself?

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Vlad Ward, on 21 September 2015 - 06:40 PM, said:

No one should have to tell people that disconnecting on purpose is against the rules. Everyone knows it's harmful to the rest of the players in the match.

Noone should have to be told that shutting down to avoid combat on purpose is against the rules. Everyone knows it's harmful to the rest of the players in the match.

but ppl need it to be told to them obviously or we wouldnt see http://mwomercs.com/...er-downed-pugs/

Quote

Anyone who is so incredibly entitled that they think they shouldn't face any consequences for exploits/breaking ToS/being a jackass because they don't like the event are not a big pain to lose.

this

[Star Wolves Admin Account]

Vlad Ward, on 21 September 2015 - 07:07 PM, said:

There are always going to be costs involved in issuing disciplinary action. This is the real world. We know this. They know this.

You know who also might not be coming back? Those inactive players who logged in for the event this weekend only to find themselves playing 9v12 or 8v10 matches because so many people were disconnecting every other game.

They took action because the negative impact certain players' actions were having on the community outweighed the potential cost of upsetting those players. This is pretty much the only time an F2P Dev ever takes large scale action.

My friend we can argue about this all day. All I am saying is that those players that were using the exploit had a quantifiable dollar value associated with them.

It is very poor business to start using a hammer on large portions of your customer base especially if it was associated with a flaw in the vendors service.

At the end of the day I don't have the numbers associated with those that used the DC exploit but it might be wise to consider the cost of those players not returning to the game. It is probably more than placating an angry mob with pitchforks or a few players who have returned for a single weekend after a long break and are not likely to return again.

I would be all for your suggestion if these guys were serial manipulators of the system. I'm just not seeing it.

Edited by Blueduck, 21 September 2015 - 07:13 PM.

[Ahernar]

Have you analysed what would have happened if all the people from BOTH teams which didn't need a map dc-ed ? A lot of juicy dc mechs to fill the score for the rest of the people . I always looked at the DC mania as a last ditch effort from the ones who already had points on the maps to HELP the others (and help themselves in the process ) . I didn't do it just because i knowed i would have been misunderstood .

[KodiakGW]

And enough for me. Wanted to pad my CBills so I could cover my NBT consumable usage for the next week. 6 drops Tuesday (OUCH!). To many discos, suicide rushing. Making for lots of bad games, both wins and losses.

And how close am I to getting the Tier 1 rewards?



Yeah, not worth he pain dropping to get that last map.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Blueduck, on 21 September 2015 - 07:04 PM, said:

Come on my TS bro, I don't want to use PGI forums or website for it.

no; you dont want to be made to provide proof youre making up. Its pretty damn clear actually.

Here, I got a better one for you.

Thunderklaws@yahoo.com
Dump email I use so I dont care about giving it out. send me an email.

[Vlad Ward]

Blueduck, on 21 September 2015 - 07:11 PM, said:

At the end of the day I don't have the numbers associated with those that used the DC exploit but it might be wise to consider the cost of those players not returning to the game. It is probably more than placating an angry mob with pitchforks or a few players who have returned for a single weekend after a long break and are not likely to return again.

PGI has the numbers. We don't. They obviously considered them before acting. Speculating about what will cost them more money in the long run is silly. The conclusion they drew is obvious.