717 replies to this topic

[Jack Shayu Walker]

wanderer, on 22 June 2016 - 10:41 AM, said:

If I can read a target's damage front-to-back, knowing it's facing should be trivial.

As an "added feature", it's charging you a premium for what should be basic information. Lowering what you get as a minimum isn't enhancing information warfare, it's simply putting blinders on your pilots and charging them to take them off to get what they had in the first place.

It takes no development and adds nothing to the game, breaking parts and charging you to glue it back together. That is garbage and as anti a quality-of-life change as it gets.

If this was real life I think you'd have a point, but this is simple game balancing. Taking something away is what has to happen sometimes.

[William Mountbank]

I don't know, it seems like there were other things that could have been tried...

[wanderer]

No, actually it doesn't.

Spreading already-thin "info warfare" data onto a still broader amount of equipment doesn't improve info warfare.

It simply makes you pay more to get what you had. It's not game balancing, it's lazy developers taking what was literally free to anyone and slapping a price tag on it, then telling you it's "enriching the info warfare system".

Everyone got tap water. PGI wants to take that tap water, put it into bottles, deny you access to the tap, and then charge you for bottled tap water instead.

How on earth is that improving anything?

[Burke IV]

William Mountbank, on 22 June 2016 - 11:10 AM, said:

I don't know, it seems like there were other things that could have been tried...

That looks real nice.

[Moldur]

wanderer, on 22 June 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

No, actually it doesn't.

Spreading already-thin "info warfare" data onto a still broader amount of equipment doesn't improve info warfare.

It simply makes you pay more to get what you had. It's not game balancing, it's lazy developers taking what was literally free to anyone and slapping a price tag on it, then telling you it's "enriching the info warfare system".

Everyone got tap water. PGI wants to take that tap water, put it into bottles, deny you access to the tap, and then charge you for bottled tap water instead.

How on earth is that improving anything?

I agree. Better minimap for all = better game. period. Seismic should come standard and go out to 1800m while moving. Everyon should have it automatically. Everyone should have 360 target retention. ECM should never have existed. TAG and BAP/CAP bonus should be applied all the time. It is a ******* shame that we aren't given every piece of information all the time. I just can't play the game without my situational awareness being handed to me on a silver platter. I'm pretty much completely helpless like a turtle on its back unless I get spoon-fed through the minimap.

[William Mountbank]

Burke IV, on 22 June 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

That looks real nice.

Thanks! I imagined the grid coords moving around the outside of the ring, to keep in line with the rotation of the radar map. It's always clear then, as to which zones are which.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

wanderer, on 22 June 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

No, actually it doesn't.

Spreading already-thin "info warfare" data onto a still broader amount of equipment doesn't improve info warfare.

It simply makes you pay more to get what you had. It's not game balancing, it's lazy developers taking what was literally free to anyone and slapping a price tag on it, then telling you it's "enriching the info warfare system".

Everyone got tap water. PGI wants to take that tap water, put it into bottles, deny you access to the tap, and then charge you for bottled tap water instead.

How on earth is that improving anything?

They aren't locking it behind an actual paywall. They are locking it behind a game mechanic, which is not inherently a good or bad idea. I think it would be cool to try in this specific case, maybe you don't, we have different opinions.

The point is, taking away a feature and attaching it to a piece of equipment is not fundamentally wrong the same way taking away a feature and locking it behind a paywall is fundamentally wrong.

One is a cash grab, one is a re-balance.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 22 June 2016 - 11:35 AM.

[Burke IV]

William Mountbank, on 22 June 2016 - 11:30 AM, said:

Thanks! I imagined the grid coords moving around the outside of the ring, to keep in line with the rotation of the radar map. It's always clear then, as to which zones are which.

Yeah the outer ring is brilliant simple idea. When i seen what you did for a moment i thought that was the hotfix.

[wanderer]

Quote

. I just can't play the game without my situational awareness being handed to me on a silver platter. I'm pretty much completely helpless like a turtle on its back unless I get spoon-fed through the minimap.

Here. This is Planetside 2.



Just look at the minimap down there in the corner..



Amazingly, in modern vehicle warfare games, we get to see which way everyone is facing because it's a normal part of play.

[Jabilo]

Minimap is awful.

Return it to exactly as it was and make no changes unless they go to PTS first.

Edited by Jabilo, 22 June 2016 - 11:45 AM.

[Yosharian]

Lmao what the **** is this ****

You can't use the map at all when driving around?

I don't even know where to begin describing where this new map goes wrong, it's so bad.

Edit: I just went back and analysed some old capture footage and I'm gobsmacked by how bad the new map is by comparison. I made a quick comparison image:


https://s32.postimg...._clusterf_k.jpg

I forgot to add that the map does not rotate according to YOUR orientation, so it's very confusing.

I felt like I was driving around blind because I couldn't use the map display to assist my piloting.

I guess some people don't use the map when they are navigating/fighting but I use the map constantly to aid my positional awareness.

Regarding the hotfix:


https://s31.postimg....o_map_FUBAR.jpg


The (hotfixed) new map is much less clear and the terrain is far harder to identify. This will make scouting more difficult since you'll have to go into the map screen to get a decent view, which to a scouting light means a quick death.

Enemy units will rapidly become a *********** of red pixels and you won't be able to determine what's happening at all.

It's yet another reason not to bother scouting, better to simply bring a poking mech and just concentrate on deathballing.

Edited by Yosharian, 22 June 2016 - 12:43 PM.

[Mavairo]

Moldur, on 22 June 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

I agree. Better minimap for all = better game. period. Seismic should come standard and go out to 1800m while moving. Everyon should have it automatically. Everyone should have 360 target retention. ECM should never have existed. TAG and BAP/CAP bonus should be applied all the time. It is a ******* shame that we aren't given every piece of information all the time. I just can't play the game without my situational awareness being handed to me on a silver platter. I'm pretty much completely helpless like a turtle on its back unless I get spoon-fed through the minimap.

Nothing announces how much of a moron you are quicker, than basically admitting you were too stupid to interpret the data of the old minimap, so you never used it anyway, than by defending this new one which renders everyone blind deaf, dumb, and only further encourages an already ******** peekaboo sniper meta.

[Lupis Volk]

The new minimap is utterly usless. Yeah you get to see the broader battle at hand but it has utterly destroyed any sort of awareness for the close quarters skirmishes. I can't see anything with it.


I've given up. I'll only come back if the roll back to the old minimap but it seems PGI is sticking to their guns on this. sigh i wonder if the Island has any room left.

[Zolaz]

[Moldur]

wanderer, on 22 June 2016 - 11:39 AM, said:

Here. This is Planetside 2.



Just look at the minimap down there in the corner..



Amazingly, in modern vehicle warfare games, we get to see which way everyone is facing because it's a normal part of play.

I'm well aware. Even the most pedestrian of player can log into PS2 and play the game by gravitating in a bee-line toward enemy dots until they gain line of sight. PS2 is a casual, though strategic and macro-scale, first person shooter with a hand-holding minimap to facilitate a wide audience. Anyone can jump in and be an effective grunt. The hand-holding minimap is a common feature of many modern games. The player need only gravitate toward the red on the minimap and gain line of sight on the enemy. Everything up to that point is turned into an inconsequential detail. Does a similar minimap make MWO better? Does making situational awareness slightly harder to grasp make the game worse?

Mavairo, on 22 June 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

Nothing announces how much of a moron you are quicker, than basically admitting you were too stupid to interpret the data of the old minimap, so you never used it anyway, than by defending this new one which renders everyone blind deaf, dumb, and only further encourages an already ******** peekaboo sniper meta.

First of all,

Quote

peekaboo sniper meta.

hahahahahahaha. ok. ok.

Quote

peekaboo sniper meta.

HAHAHAHAHAHA

alright, alright.

I do not know if it is even worth writing a response, because your illiteracy already caused you to vastly misconstrue what you're replying to, so I doubt anything else I say will illicit an intelligible response. Oh well. You got me. The old minimap worked very well and gave a lot of useful information at a glance. I used it, as did everyone. I am not sure what made you infer that I couldn't understand the old minimap.

Mavairo, on 22 June 2016 - 12:58 PM, said:

[...] defending this new one which renders everyone blind deaf, dumb [...]

The new minimap really is not that hard to figure out. Hold on, let me make it so everyone will read that. The new minimap really is not that hard to figure out.

Though I suppose you are right in a way. It is pointless if nobody bothers trying to adjust to it. Everyone is "blind, deaf, and dumb." due to their own lack of situational awareness, as the minimap no longer provides everything. There is no point in understanding the minimap if the 11 other people on the team do not.

Edited by Moldur, 22 June 2016 - 04:08 PM.

[Mavairo]

Moldur, on 22 June 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

I'm well aware. Even the most pedestrian of player can log into PS2 and play the game by gravitating in a bee-line toward enemy dots until they gain line of sight. PS2 is a casual, though strategic and macro-scale, first person shooter with a hand-holding minimap to facilitate a wide audience. Anyone can jump in and be an effective grunt. The hand-holding minimap is a common feature of many modern games. The player need only gravitate toward the red on the minimap and gain line of sight on the enemy. Everything up to that point is turned into an inconsequential detail. Does a similar minimap make MWO better? Does making situational awareness slightly harder to grasp make the game worse?



First of all,



hahahahahahaha. ok. ok.



HAHAHAHAHAHA

alright, alright.

I do not know if it is even worth writing a response, because your illiteracy already caused you to vastly misconstrue what you're replying to, so I doubt anything else I say will illicit an intelligible response. Oh well. You got me. The old minimap worked very well and gave a lot of useful information at a glance. I used it, as did everyone. I am not sure what made you infer that I couldn't understand the old minimap.




The new minimap really is not that hard to figure out. Hold on, let me make it so everyone will read that. The new minimap really is not that hard to figure out.

Though I suppose you are right in a way. It is pointless if nobody bothers trying to adjust to it. Everyone is "blind, deaf, and dumb." due to their own lack of situational awareness, as the minimap no longer provides everything. There is no point in understanding the minimap if the 11 other people on the team do not.

Aww poor kitten.

No sorry pal, when this game has a WORSE minimap than every previous mechwarrior title, it's not acceptable. When it's minimap is worse than contemporary games made by quality companies..not acceptable. Not only that, but this game's minimap/sensor suite were ALREADY too simplistic compared to past mechwarrior titles. This...this is even more dumbed down than what we already had.

It's especially not acceptable if the minimap was already functional, and useful before hand.

Look I get it, you're too stupid to breathe unassisted, you are after all willing to defend the current minimap as being remotely functional compared to the map before hand.

The new minimap does nothing to enhance your situational awareness of the battlefield, that your own eyes do not already. It might as well not even be there for all the good it does.

If you like the current minimap, then you were obviously not capable of using the old simplistic Call of Doody Casual Grade information the old one gave as it is, fully.
The entire game was already deathball up, and play peekaboo enough. Or conversely just nascar until you catch the slowest mechs of the enemy team.

Taking away information from the player, further encourages a conservative, and simplistic tactical mindset, as people have no idea wtf is going on around them.

And since the map provides no real useful intel beyond what your eyes already see, in it's present state (which it's being fixed.. Soon™ so guess what champ? Your Leetness? Is already Wrong.) there's no real ability to make an informed decision about how to flank. It's a crap shoot gamble, and god help you if you are on a map you don't know well, because you're very likely to wander into a firing lane filled with enemy mechs.

"But now you can see enemies across the map away!"...you could already do that,. And the only time that information is useful is when you aren't taking fire. It's called the B button. If your team mates have the bad guys pinged up, you could with the old map, hit B, and determine where you needed to move next.

Now, if hitting B was too hard for you, and too complicated, then yes I suppose for you in exactly one instance the current abortion of a minimap that is worse than games that likely predate the day of your birth, is a good thing.

Now, go uninstall kitten, because they are already going to largely restore the smaller view minimap's functionality.

Edited by Mavairo, 22 June 2016 - 04:27 PM.

[wanderer]

Moldur, on 22 June 2016 - 04:06 PM, said:

I'm well aware. Even the most pedestrian of player can log into PS2 and play the game by gravitating in a bee-line toward enemy dots until they gain line of sight. PS2 is a casual, though strategic and macro-scale, first person shooter with a hand-holding minimap to facilitate a wide audience. Anyone can jump in and be an effective grunt. The hand-holding minimap is a common feature of many modern games. The player need only gravitate toward the red on the minimap and gain line of sight on the enemy. Everything up to that point is turned into an inconsequential detail. Does a similar minimap make MWO better? Does making situational awareness slightly harder to grasp make the game worse?

Oh, look. World of Warships.

Another miracle, a minimap in which we can see which way everyone is going.



It's almost as if games like this realize that such data is important and useful to every player at the basic level.
PGI seems to have failed at realizing such data is also important and useful to every MWO player, as well.

At least now we've got much of the proper map functionality back with the hotfix, though definitely not all of the important parts quite YET.