137 replies to this topic

[Kmieciu]

Lily from animove, on 22 September 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

LOL, seriosuly? so regulary 400-600 damage with some bad 250 and some exceptional 800+ damage matches (nad the scores related to this) makes me by judgement merely better than a noob?

Deep down inside, you always knew you were a scrub.
Didn't you?

[Navid A1]

Maybe the reason is not your good matches...
Maybe you happen to be the least contributing player in matches where you lost.... that brings down your PSR.


or maybe PSR calculation is based on number of matches, and you don't have much since january. No one knows!

Edited by Navid A1, 23 September 2015 - 12:28 AM.

[Lily from animove]

L3mming2, on 22 September 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

i dot get why ppl say damage means you cant aim, if u kill the robot u shoot the next one ... you dont stop shooting and the amount of damage is determined by how long u can keep this up (aka you can stay alive) your sustained dps is just as high if u aim well or bad, the only diference is the guy that aims well will get more exta score from kills (+8 fore every kill) will stay alive longer (destroy your enemy before he destroyes you) and will win more often, all of those tings will make your psr go up...

but there is not an infinite amount of opponents available, once 12 are dead they are dead. and when everyone in your team only shoots CT's in worts case everyone would maybe net 200 damage, and its correlated low number of score. While the "spreadwarrior" simply needs 2x more demage and gets nearly 2x as much score.

Stefka Kerensky, on 22 September 2015 - 10:19 PM, said:

Wait, but did you stop playing for a long period right?

yes Some other games catched my attention that I needed to play a lot. The only time I played a lot since jan 15th was actually the Tukkayid event.

At this point I wonder how CW games affected the judgement. We know PGI used the CW matches for Tiers as well. They stopped doing so. But did that made them erase past CW matches from that calculation or did they stayed? If they stayed it may explain this at all, because in the tukkayid event and with those weird CW score calculating system. In that case playing with the CWI's and trying to "win" CW matches was basically always a situation which either caused no skill rating increase (because low score winnings for base rushes) or dowranking because low score and failed rushing will always be low score and lose conditions.

PGI said also, if not enough matches were held you get beginner tier right? Or do I just imagine this. This may indeed have caused me tostart over at T4. Since then I only had a few matches during the takeover events. probably, if I had to start over at T4 those matches may have cause the progress in T3.

If I weren'T busy playing Elite atm, I would make like 100 matches and trakc the ups and downs to see how it develops. That would be quite some interesting sight. But wiht the few games I made i will be T2 in soem time, but givne how slowly the bar raises these are porbably 100-200 games mostly depending on if the team loses or wins.

That is in fact something I wonder about. if you do constantly lets say 500 damage getting your 250 score + something. you would be a mechwarrior of "constant" skills. but PSR will rate your skill then sololy on the winning of your team. if you have bad luck and your team loses most time, your PSR goes down. If you are lucky and it wons, you significantly will rise.

This gets especially problematic with the buils one brings, if you have a low dps build but oyu are a good pilot most of the time you will not rise unless games are long enough. But when you make a high dps build runnign dry after 2 minutes but you net your 300 scores, you will never drop but always rise when winning.

It is strange since it seems PGI is using fixed score values to determine this. But we need more statistics to determine this. But if so, the scores will never be in "skill relation" to others.

[Mycrus]

Lily from animove, on 22 September 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

LOL, seriosuly? so regulary 400-600 damage with some bad 250 and some exceptional 800+ damage matches (nad the scores related to this) makes me by judgement merely better than a noob?


Ok, I can deal with whatever the game wants to judge me,

BUT WTF ARE ABOUT THE REAL NOOBS those are players hopless lost playing vs me, when the game judges me T3 1/4 I do not wonder when they have a bad gamign experience, they should skillwiese not play vs me, yet they have to, and i am supposed to be "not much a noob"

even further I regulary play with and vs others that have shown their T1's and i can hold my ground in score comparison in those matches with them.

I am quite confused about how this is judgement works, because given i can even face the lowest skilled pilots, this is far from fair for them.

Do you need a game to tell you exactly how 'good' or 'bad' you are?

[Detriitus]

Right at the very bottom of Tier 2 there is a small stubborn village which is me. Let's see if I can defend it by using Shadowcats, Summoners and Executioners!

Bishop Steiner, on 22 September 2015 - 12:51 PM, said:

The last 4 months or so, I have barely played. Probably less that 150 drops in that time.

No way you are Tier 3. As far as I understand this is how it worked: At the beginning of 2015 they implemented the psr system secretly and everyone started moving without effect according to their matchscores. With the introduction of psr everyones position at that time was revealed and matches were now mixed based on psr.
So if everyone started at Tier 4 in the beginning those that didn't play much in the meantime are simply still on the rise up.

Tempest Omega, on 22 September 2015 - 01:14 PM, said:

Did we every get any info on the width of the various tiers? Is it 20% of the player base in each tier, is it a pyramid structure where their are more tier 5s than tier 4s? Is the tiering based off of hard score cut off number so everyone could be in tier 3 if they all scored within the tier 3 range numbers?

Russ or Paul stated in some chat that the Tiers weren't evensized, but I can't give you the source.

[Lily from animove]

Mycrus, on 23 September 2015 - 01:27 AM, said:

Do you need a game to tell you exactly how 'good' or 'bad' you are?

No, but *sigh*

the PSR is to determine how good a pilot is, it is used to make matches that are supposed to be fun, which is not "how hard can you stomp your opponent" it is how fair and equal the players on both sides are.

But this seems to be hardly true for the way how PSR works atm.

Detriitus, on 23 September 2015 - 01:47 AM, said:

Right at the very bottom of Tier 2 there is a small stubborn village which is me. Let's see if I can defend it by using Shadowcats, Summoners and Executioners!


No way you are Tier 3. As far as I understand this is how it worked: At the beginning of 2015 they implemented the psr system secretly and everyone started moving without effect according to their matchscores. With the introduction of psr everyones position at that time was revealed and matches were now mixed based on psr.
So if everyone started at Tier 4 in the beginning those that didn't play much in the meantime are simply still on the rise up.


Russ or Paul stated in some chat that the Tiers weren't evensized, but I can't give you the source.

the problem is the "rise up" means hundrest of matches, and that seems to be a bit "too long" When a player palys good for like 50 matches he should significantly go up an entire tier and not half of a tier. Imagien a good player not haing played since then being judged t4 due to lakc of games. lets say he plys like 10 matches a week. with a 1:1 chance of winning. that means hw would need more thna a YEAR to ever rise an entire tier sololy based on the low frequency he plays.

But I guess I found the flaw:thx to what Thorqemada pointed out

[Random Carnage]

Problem is that the brains in dev land put a lot of bias on team win. You can have the third highest match score across BOTH teams (yes, 3rd highest of 24 people), and score an "=". I know, because it happened to me. I had a kill, several assists and over 600 damage for the game, but the team lost.

On the same account, next game I was on the winning team, I got fu*ked inside the first 60 seconds, did about 90 damage, and again, got "=".

Tell me, what part of this scoring system reflects personal skill rating?

They need to decouple the team win/loss element from the stats and base it purely on the individuals performance. Period.

Edited by Random Carnage, 23 September 2015 - 02:17 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Random Carnage, on 23 September 2015 - 02:16 AM, said:

Problem is that the brains in dev land put a lot of bias on team win. You can have the third highest match score across BOTH teams (yes, 3rd highest of 24 people), and score an "=". I know, because it happened to me. I had a kill, several assists and over 600 damage for the game, but the team lost.

On the same account, next game I was on the winning team, I got fu*ked inside the first 60 seconds, did about 90 damage, and again, got "=".

Tell me, what part of this scoring system reflects personal skill rating?

They need to decouple the team win/loss element from the stats and base it purely on the individuals performance. Period.

given that losing/winning already puts 20 score ontop of the score, there would be no need to even make different ups and down judgement depend on winnign/losing. And if PGI wants winning to be more influent, then just raise winning to 50score.

This way they could make:

up to 200 scores you get down
200-350 scores you stay
above 350 you rise

Winning already influences the score and is by this already calculated into the way it affects PSR.

For me matches where I make less than 200 damages are "failed" totally, the fact that winnign still would make me go upwards with the current system. Wow, that feels dirty.

[Mazzyplz]

what they should do is let four tier1 players take on 5 lances of tier5 players against them

[DarthHias]

NeoCodex, on 22 September 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

snip

I exclusively Pug, and while I like my Gaussbringer I often drive non Meta Mechs and Lights. Still im mid to upper Tier2. It´s easier to go up than to go down.
You can only go down on a loss while performing bad.

[Bloody]

i wish i was tier 5 it will make it easier to level the non tier mechs

[Random Carnage]

The longer it takes you to level up, the harder/slower it will become as more and more "capable" opponents rise to limit your chances of a high score.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I am 3 and 3/4 pug only with only a handful of drops in group and less in cw.

Don't feel bad lily, I tend to think those guys in tier 1 and 2 are divided between the exceptional twitch shooters and the guys who run the best gear on the field always and have the best systems at home. Maybe running in teams helps a lot too as you averages would be better than pugging. My k/d is 1.12 so not bad but nowhere near the elite guys.

We are in the thinking mans shooter tiers...

[Erkki]

"I'm better than this! I deserve better! I do good all the time but don't want to reveal my statistics! I'm special!"

Dunning-Krueger effect anyone?

[Random Carnage]

Wait..wha...??! Did he ^ just call me stupid? (T2)

[Soultraxx]

Mudhutwarrior, on 23 September 2015 - 03:02 AM, said:

My k/d is 1.12 so not bad but nowhere near the elite guys.

We are in the thinking mans shooter tiers...

Im aTier 3er and my kdr is 0.76.

I guess I'll be seeing Tier 4 soon

[Mudhutwarrior]

Soultraxx, on 23 September 2015 - 03:41 AM, said:

Im aTier 3er and my kdr is 0.76.

I guess I'll be seeing Tier 4 soon

I have to think where you play has a lot to do with it. Maybe if we posted where the majority of our matches lie. Group,solo or cw.

[Soultraxx]

Mudhutwarrior, on 23 September 2015 - 03:47 AM, said:

I have to think where you play has a lot to do with it. Maybe if we posted where the majority of our matches lie. Group,solo or cw.

A good point.

Im purely in the solo queue and havent run in CW since before my break back in January

Edited by Soultraxx, 23 September 2015 - 03:51 AM.

[RagingOyster]

Sorry....?

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Lily from animove, on 22 September 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:

LOL, seriosuly? so regulary 400-600 damage with some bad 250 and some exceptional 800+ damage matches (nad the scores related to this) makes me by judgement merely better than a noob?


Ok, I can deal with whatever the game wants to judge me,

BUT WTF ARE ABOUT THE REAL NOOBS those are players hopless lost playing vs me, when the game judges me T3 1/4 I do not wonder when they have a bad gamign experience, they should skillwiese not play vs me, yet they have to, and i am supposed to be "not much a noob"

even further I regulary play with and vs others that have shown their T1's and i can hold my ground in score comparison in those matches with them.

I am quite confused about how this is judgement works, because given i can even face the lowest skilled pilots, this is far from fair for them.

im mostly in assaults/heavy doing 600-800/300-500 damage inthem

T5.