277 replies to this topic

[Gnume]

The Paulconomy, on 25 September 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

1) B/c in team based games "individual performance" doesn't mean "Rambo". It means how valuable you are to a team. Sorry you logged onto a team based game expecting to not have to work as a team.

2) Number of games has no bearing on the formula at all. He merely stated "the longer someone plays, the better they tend to become". Seriously, just learn to read.

Which is why you base PSR on specific actions one can take within the game to earn points ... such things like Protected Light, Flanking, Savior Kill, etc. If you are performing those "Team Based Actions" they earn you the points, whether your team wins the match or not. You, the individual pilot, STILL performed those actions INDIVIDUALLY. If all you did was "Rambo" in, then your points will be lower more than likely since you did NOT perform a lot of the actions one would do if playing as a team.

The Difference being...you earn your points INDIVIDUALLY based on your actions that contribute to the team. In your scenario, the "Rambo-style" player can still move up his/her PSR if their team won, regardless.

Number of games has a bearing in the sense that it takes a great number of games to substaintially raise your level. You can be the best player in the world and from the get-go be the most awesome team player ever but you won't make it to Tier 1 until you put in enough games to have actually raised your PSR enough to reach the limit. It's ye ole MMO Experience Grind! Plain and Simple. Let's say it takes 5,000,000 points to reach Tier 1. If the Max you can raise a PSR value by is say 1,000 it's still going to take you 5,000 games before you reach that Tier. So yeah, number of games played is a factor.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"in team based games "individual performance" doesn't mean "Rambo". It means how valuable you are to a team. Sorry you logged onto a team based game expecting to not have to work as a team."

That's simply not true. Examples:

1) As a light scout, I do movement to contact, to find the enemy murderball and pop a UAV so my team can set up on them. Especially useful in unorganized pugs. More often than not, I turn a corner and get blasted by 10 red team. If I'm lucky and don't die in the first few mins, I get away with half my armor stripped. Reward: punishment

2) I go back to give the clueless assault ECM cover while he catches up. When the red team wolfpack hits, I drive them off. I usually die, while he makes it out alive. Reward: punishment

3) Team wants to push but no one wants to be the first through the breach. I take point in my light and do a "curl" so that red team all turns to chase/shoot the rabbit. While they are turned my team gets through the breach and gets some free shots on red team. I don't usually survive the maneuver, but it makes a difference for my team. Reward: punishment.

4) Conquest. Red team lights are capping aggressively, so I turn into a dedicated capper and cap behind them. Keeps the game alive so my team can win on kill out. But if you aren't doing damage, your score is supbar. so Reward: punishment

I could go on and on. But this idea of yours that lower tier players suck because they don't use teamwork is nonsense. You don't know what you are talking about.

[Johnny Z]

CaptRosha, on 25 September 2015 - 07:17 AM, said:

Which is why you base PSR on specific actions one can take within the game to earn points ... such things like Protected Light, Flanking, Savior Kill, etc. If you are performing those "Team Based Actions" they earn you the points, whether your team wins the match or not. You, the individual pilot, STILL performed those actions INDIVIDUALLY. If all you did was "Rambo" in, then your points will be lower more than likely since you did NOT perform a lot of the actions one would do if playing as a team.

The Difference being...you earn your points INDIVIDUALLY based on your actions that contribute to the team. In your scenario, the "Rambo-style" player can still move up his/her PSR if their team won, regardless.

Number of games has a bearing in the sense that it takes a great number of games to substaintially raise your level. You can be the best player in the world and from the get-go be the most awesome team player ever but you won't make it to Tier 1 until you put in enough games to have actually raised your PSR enough to reach the limit. It's ye ole MMO Experience Grind! Plain and Simple. Let's say it takes 5,000,000 points to reach Tier 1. If the Max you can raise a PSR value by is say 1,000 it's still going to take you 5,000 games before you reach that Tier. So yeah, number of games played is a factor.

This and everything Lily is saying is a guess. No one can know that yet. Also this reply above doesnt make sense since it is possible to drop a tier. Cmon guys and maybe girls lets try making some sense here. Lol

It simply cant be a stright experience/lvl system if players tier can also go down! SHeesh.

Which means the tier rating is based on individual player performance, that also takes win/loss into account.

Next reply is going to be in all CAPS.

Also theres a good chance Lily is trolling trying to get everyone fired up.

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 September 2015 - 07:25 AM.

[WarHippy]

The Paulconomy, on 25 September 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

1) B/c in team based games "individual performance" doesn't mean "Rambo". It means how valuable you are to a team. Sorry you logged onto a team based game expecting to not have to work as a team.

Yet, high damage, solo kill, and most damage done are given large amounts of points despite the fact that Rambo is often very good at doing just that. Seems counterintuitive to the entire teamwork concept.

The Paulconomy, on 25 September 2015 - 06:46 AM, said:

2) Number of games has no bearing on the formula at all. He merely stated "the longer someone plays, the better they tend to become". Seriously, just learn to read.

Given how easy it is to go up in points in this system number of games and if your team on is about the only thing that does matter. Experience does not always equal skill.

Lily from animove, on 25 September 2015 - 06:58 AM, said:

No it does not, because a veteran not playing often is still at T3 or T2 unless he has like 3k games on the counter. So all veterans not having this count of games since beginning 2015 are still regulary matched vs newbies. So it's not even an "ok" at that job.

I didn't say it worked well. I said it was okay. It does keep at least some of the veterans away form the beginners, but there is certainly room for improvement.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

RussianWolf, on 25 September 2015 - 07:12 AM, said:

This is the first I've hear that this only pulls in info since January. If that's the case, they should make another archive of stats so we can pull good data. I was going off my stats since the last archive. Maybe I've been playing worse lately since I've been leveling mechs. But I have a feeling my W/L record is still pretty accurate.

Quote

The historical data pool used for generating your Tier placement goes back until January 2015.

from Patch Notes - 1.4.3.0 - 18-Aug-2015

Edited by Agent 0 Fortune, 25 September 2015 - 07:24 AM.

[Summon3r]

why is Paul wasting time writing up useless stuff when he could be pressing a few buttons to get ECM to 90m like he talked about months ago?

[MechWarrior3671771]

"Historical data pool used for generating your Tier placement goes back to Janury 2015"

Well then its not an XP bar. I started Jan 2015 and am Tier 4. And I have 4.5 million XP in a Raven 3L.

[Gnume]

Johnny Z, on 25 September 2015 - 07:21 AM, said:

This and everything Lily is saying is a guess. No one can know that yet. Also this reply above doesnt make sense since it is possible to drop a tier. Cmon guys and maybe girls lets try making some sense here. Lol

It simply cant be a stright experience/lvl system if players tier can also go down! SHeesh.

Which means the tier rating is based on individual player performance, that also takes win/loss into account.

Next reply is going to be in all CAPS.

You must be young The old MMO EverQuest had an Experience driven system. You die, you LOST Experience...you could EVEN LOSE A LEVEL if your experience loss due to the death dropped your total experience points below the required amount for that level. I know, a lot of the newer games these days take the easy road because they want to make players happy and you don't lose stuff once you get it But yeah, in this game, when you get that Red Down Arrow, that means you LOST PSR points and those are subtracted from your total and yeah, you can move down a tier. Doesn't mean it's not an Experience driven system.

It depends on the amount of PSR that can be lost...does that amount vary like your PSR gains seem to be able to vary or is a loss of PSR always a set value? Because if its a small set value where anything better than the "Small Gain" is greater, then as long as you win more than you lose, you have the opportunity to keep upping your Experience Point Total.

Edited by CaptRosha, 25 September 2015 - 07:31 AM.

[Ghogiel]

CaptRosha, on 25 September 2015 - 07:17 AM, said:

The Difference being...you earn your points INDIVIDUALLY based on your actions that contribute to the team. In your scenario, the "Rambo-style" player can still move up his/her PSR if their team won, regardless.

possibly. But since the rambo player is more often than not negatively influencing the outcome of the match, statistically he would have a worse W/L, since there is a guaranteed rambo on his side (him) and that there isn't a guaranteed one on the other team. Over time it adds up.

His PSR may move up in some games where he didn't contribute much to the win, but over the 2k games? No, he will remain scrub tier because he isn't a carry player and isn't ever doing high dam.

Edited by Ghogiel, 25 September 2015 - 07:28 AM.

[WarHippy]

Fenrisulvyn, on 25 September 2015 - 07:25 AM, said:

"Historical data pool used for generating your Tier placement goes back to Janury 2015"

Well then its not an XP bar. I started Jan 2015 and am Tier 4. And I have 4.5 million XP in a Raven 3L.

Out of curiosity what are your overall stats?

[RussianWolf]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 25 September 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

[/size]
from Patch Notes - 1.4.3.0 - 18-Aug-2015

Thanks and the next line should read

"but we aren't going to give you that restricted data range so that you can make intelligent analysis of the system"

[Bishop Steiner]

RussianWolf, on 25 September 2015 - 07:30 AM, said:

Thanks and the next line should read

"but we aren't going to give you that restricted data range so that you can make intelligent analysis of the system"

since 99% of the community is unable to make an intelligent analysis of a McDonalds Menu, I'd say that they are largely saving themselves a headache on the forums.

[Johnny Z]

CaptRosha, on 25 September 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

You must be new The old MMO EverQuest had an Experience driven system. You die, you LOST Experience...you could EVEN LOSE A LEVEL if your experience loss due to the death dropped your total experience points below the required amount for that level. I know, a lot of the newer games these days take the easy road because they want to make players happy and you don't lose stuff once you get it But yeah, in this game, when you get that Red Down Arrow, that means you LOST PSR points and those are subtracted from your total and yeah, you can move down a tier. Doesn't mean it's not an Experience driven system.

It depends on the amount of PSR that can be lost...does that amount vary like your PSR gains seem to be able to vary or is a loss of PSR always a set value? Because if its a small set value where anything better than the "Small Gain" is greater, then as long as you win more than you lose, you have the opportunity to keep upping your Experience Point Total.

Cant argue with you here and I think it is in part an experience system, is as it is meant to protect newbies who have no experience. Also match scores are not stright out exp payouts for kills unlike Everquest, although I never played that game. Match scores in Mechwarrior depend on alot of variables, quite an impressive amount actually and also impressive how those variables are tracked.

And since this is a new page and no one will bother reading the last page I will repeat PSR depends on personal performance and win/loss, both. Its possible to go up and down in tier with it being easier to go up to avoid dethreaters. 10/10 match maker.

Edited by Johnny Z, 25 September 2015 - 07:36 AM.

[RussianWolf]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 September 2015 - 07:31 AM, said:

since 99% of the community is unable to make an intelligent analysis of a McDonalds Menu, I'd say that they are largely saving themselves a headache on the forums.

Hey Bishop...

Join the Dark Side (aka Tier 5), I've been having fun down here.

[Bishop Steiner]

RussianWolf, on 25 September 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

Hey Bishop...

Join the Dark Side (aka Tier 5), I've been having fun down here.

well, my Clan Acct is tier 4....sure it'll be there soon......

gotta keep Tier 3 on my IS Acct so I can lord it over the Tier 4 and 5 scrubs!

[WarHippy]

Ghogiel, on 25 September 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

possibly. But since the rambo player is more often than not negatively influencing the outcome of the match, statistically he would have a worse W/L, since there is a guaranteed rambo on his side (him) and that there isn't a guaranteed one on the other team. Over time it adds up.

His PSR may move up in some games where he didn't contribute much to the win, but over the 2k games? No, he will remain scrub tier because he isn't a carry player and isn't ever doing high dam.

What you described is a red shirt not Rambo. Rambo is the one man army where as the red shirt is the low damage fodder player. Calling players who get themselves killed right off the bat having done virtually nothing Rambo makes pretty much no sense if you have actually watched the movies.

[RussianWolf]

<<<<<<<< below a newb

[nehebkau]

Here is what i find funny. I was in an arctic cheater, got myself a Direwolf and an atlas as solo kills in one match and made the black knight who was with them have a nice cherry CT before i got focused and killed by the rest of the team. (Flanked the enemy lines and opened up into their rear CTs and stayed behind them as they turned). My damage was low, around 250 (cant remember the exact amount) and my match score was low. We won the match but I stayed equal in regards to PSR.

From my standpoint, a 30 ton eliminated 200 tons, almost 275 tons. On a battlefield if 30 soldiers with pistols took out 275 better armed solders (rifles, mortars, grenades, body armor etc.) wouldn't that be an amazing performance? My accuracy was spot on and my tactics were perfect -- but I didn't perform very well according to PSR.

[Bishop Steiner]

nehebkau, on 25 September 2015 - 07:36 AM, said:

Here is what i find funny. I was in an arctic cheater, got myself a Direwolf and an atlas as solo kills in one match and made the black knight who was with them have a nice cherry CT before i got focused and killed by the rest of the team. (Flanked the enemy lines and opened up into their rear CTs and stayed behind them as they turned). My damage was low, around 250 (cant remember the exact amount) and my match score was low. We won the match but I stayed equal in regards to PSR.

From my standpoint, a 30 ton eliminated 200 tons, almost 275 tons. On a battlefield if 30 soldiers with pistols took out 275 better armed solders (rifles, mortars, grenades, body armor etc.) wouldn't that be an amazing performance? My accuracy was spot on and my tactics were perfect -- but I didn't perform very well according to PSR.

Arctic Cheaters have built in 200% Negative Awards modifier.

Because they are Cheaters.

[Gnume]

Johnny Z, on 25 September 2015 - 07:33 AM, said:

Cant argue with you here and I think it is in part an experience system, is as it is meant to protect newbies who have no experience. Also match scores are not stright out exp payouts for kills unlike Everquest, although I never played that game. Match scores in Mechwarrior depend on alot of variables, quite an impressive amount actually and also impressive how those variables are tracked.

And I'm not arguing against keeping newbies away from top players either. I am in favor of a matching system that tries to do so based on skill. I just want said system to focus on exactly that ... the player's individual skill...not some random variable such as whether the team won or lost. Count all the things I do as a player to contribute to the match...don't count what the other players did as part of MY score, that was not MY skill, that was THEIR skill or lack of skill