223 replies to this topic

[CDLord HHGD]

TexAce, on 25 September 2015 - 06:51 AM, said:

Ammo dependent and heavy, plus high chance of ammo blowup on the ACs.....I don't think so

Indeed, a lot of simple balance was put into the original TT specs.

Ballistics--HEAVY + ammo dependency.
Energy--Light but HOT.
Missiles--Light but ammo dependent and spread.

Edited by cdlord, 25 September 2015 - 06:54 AM.

[BarHaid]

Chiming in with my support for this, just so I can follow it easier.

I've lurked just about every thread about heat scale that's come out, but this one seems the most complete (and yet simple!) one so far. Here's to hoping we can change some minds, or at least get a response as to the under-the-hood implementation difficulties we can't see.

[Bishop Steiner]

Timberwolf581, on 25 September 2015 - 05:07 AM, said:

I like this.

I recently played MW4 again and I noticed that running hot made my HUD flicker and reduced my top speed and turning speed. (legs and torso)
I want that in MWO.

a lot of those things actually were in during early CB, too.

You could have your ammo cook off if you held over 80% heat or so, (found this out early and often in my SHS packing AWS-8R...... Caustic used to be truly brutal, lol) and yeah the HUD did flicker and fade.

Added a lot to the game. There was a feeling of immersion, even with (maybe because?) of some of the glaring bugs.... a weightiness to mechs, imperfect convergence, Heat Effects, better cleaner visuals, even seems (I could be imagining this) that the sounds on my AWS were better.

I forget when they changed all this... but it really took something out of the play factor.

Honestly... really miss playing SHS on SHS mechs in CB...... the game was so much better paced then.

[Malleus011]

I'd love to have this heat scale. I'd put ammo explosion changes up at the top, either if you force a shutdown or as a hazard if you override.

[RockmachinE]

I don't like it. It doesn't suit a real time action PC game. I like the consequences of heat as they are right now. You overheat, you shut down. This would make it unnecessarily convoluted and would be a turn off for most players.

Now as for details like ghost heat and how heat scales etc. that's a different story. That's open for debate and we don't have an ideal solution at the moment I believe.

I wouldn't mind to have stylistic effects like HUD flicker, smoke etc when you get hot, that's fine.

[Lugh]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 September 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

a lot of those things actually were in during early CB, too.

You could have your ammo cook off if you held over 80% heat or so, (found this out early and often in my SHS packing AWS-8R...... Caustic used to be truly brutal, lol) and yeah the HUD did flicker and fade.

Added a lot to the game. There was a feeling of immersion, even with (maybe because?) of some of the glaring bugs.... a weightiness to mechs, imperfect convergence, Heat Effects, better cleaner visuals, even seems (I could be imagining this) that the sounds on my AWS were better.

I forget when they changed all this... but it really took something out of the play factor.

Honestly... really miss playing SHS on SHS mechs in CB...... the game was so much better paced then.

All of that went away when the crybabies got their way again and they took out collisions, convergence and all the rest in almost one go.

Leading to the current crotch humpers anonymous of horrible light pilots in game.

[cSand]

you got my vote buddy!

[Mister Blastman]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 September 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

Honestly... really miss playing SHS on SHS mechs in CB...... the game was so much better paced then.

It was. And we had 8v8--which is what they should move us back to.

[Hobo Dan]

Malleus011, on 25 September 2015 - 07:53 AM, said:

I'd love to have this heat scale. I'd put ammo explosion changes up at the top, either if you force a shutdown or as a hazard if you override.

Yes, I am not a huge fan of ammo explosions only because of the RNG factor. Many of the other factors (shaky reticule, blurred vision) happen at know heat percentages. But ammo cook off chance would be different. If ammo can randomly cook off, I think only at the very top of the scale should it be able to happen.

Edited by Hobo Dan, 25 September 2015 - 09:03 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mister Blastman, on 25 September 2015 - 08:42 AM, said:

It was. And we had 8v8--which is what they should move us back to.

Really remove the alpha warrior mentality. I enjoy playing 3025 Stock Mech matches, but even those don't recapture the feel of the old CB. Like you said, the 8v8 is also a part of that, but so was the heat scale (no one really QQ'd about heat scale when it was SHS v SHS, oddly....aside form those who just couldn't handle the heat and wanted crutch DHS) and the peripherals like better looking visuals, imperfect convergence and heat effects

Hobo Dan, on 25 September 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

Yes, I am not a huge fan of ammo explosions only because of the RNG factor. Many of the other factors (shaky reticule, blurred vision) happen at know heat percentages. But ammo cook off chance would be different. If ammo can randomly cook off, I think only at the very top of the scale should it be able to happen.

That's largely how it worked. You had to ride the top to see it. But as much as gamers hate RNG, random reflects reality. Because too many variables, ammo won't always cook off a the exact same temp, reasons, etc. But it should be something that only occurs in the top 15% of the scale, and should be an increasing RNG the longer you are above it, with a cooldown like MASC.

[Hobo Dan]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 September 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

That's largely how it worked. You had to ride the top to see it. But as much as gamers hate RNG, random reflects reality. Because too many variables, ammo won't always cook off a the exact same temp, reasons, etc. But it should be something that only occurs in the top 15% of the scale, and should be an increasing RNG the longer you are above it, with a cooldown like MASC.

I would happily live with that!

Your closed beta nostalgia got me in the feels btw.

[Sadist Cain]

Here we go again... and rightly so.

better heat mechanics, don't care what just make it something interesting that needs maintaining and managing and get rid of poorly thought cop outs like ghost heat.

[Mister Blastman]

Bishop Steiner, on 25 September 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

Really remove the alpha warrior mentality. I enjoy playing 3025 Stock Mech matches, but even those don't recapture the feel of the old CB. Like you said, the 8v8 is also a part of that, but so was the heat scale (no one really QQ'd about heat scale when it was SHS v SHS, oddly....aside form those who just couldn't handle the heat and wanted crutch DHS) and the peripherals like better looking visuals, imperfect convergence and heat effects

I miss running my Dragon with 4x small lasers, AC 10 and SRM 6 and doing just fine.

Remember all that? A single AC/10... was... useful. Imagine that! Nowadays 10 points of pinpoint is laughed at with a face full of 50+ point pinpoint laser vomit alpha.

[Alan Davion]

Louis Brofist, on 25 September 2015 - 08:09 AM, said:

I don't like it. It doesn't suit a real time action PC game. I like the consequences of heat as they are right now. You overheat, you shut down. This would make it unnecessarily convoluted and would be a turn off for most players.

Now as for details like ghost heat and how heat scales etc. that's a different story. That's open for debate and we don't have an ideal solution at the moment I believe.

I wouldn't mind to have stylistic effects like HUD flicker, smoke etc when you get hot, that's fine.

The problem is people aren't overheating often enough is what they're getting at, considering that you hardly see ACs, Missiles and etc in favor of the easy-mode lasers and stuff. Especially when it comes to mechs like the Timber and the Dire.

What this would do is encourage more mixed builds, ACs, Missiles, it would also necessitate buffs and nerfs to certain weapons, such as buffing machine guns, and certain penalties with lasers. Such as plain old increasing their heat values, rather than the absurd ghost heat mechanic.

As far as the ghost heat and heat scale, that's exactly what this would address. Ghost heat is a monumental failure, I think we all agree on that, what we need is a proper heat scale with proper penalties for increasing your heat over time, or by alpha-ing.

This IS that proper heat scale and the accompanying penalties.

There's a hundred other reasons that people could give, some of them good and viable, some of them utter nonsense, but this one is the best idea I've ever seen on these forums.

[sycocys]

One thing I'd rather see if it was just a minor change is overheating damaging weapons and heatsinks before internals. Couple alpha melters and the penalty is you are weaponless.

[TheCharlatan]

Yes please!

[Bishop Steiner]

Mister Blastman, on 25 September 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

I miss running my Dragon with 4x small lasers, AC 10 and SRM 6 and doing just fine.

Remember all that? A single AC/10... was... useful. Imagine that! Nowadays 10 points of pinpoint is laughed at with a face full of 50+ point pinpoint laser vomit alpha.

Yup. And an ac20 or Gauss was just vicious.

I remember my quad SRM6 AWS being a beast, especially for tunnel ambushes in Frozen City and Forest Colony, etc.

And I miss my AC20 3xSSRM2 CN9-AH being a killing machine.

[Mister Blastman]

Alan Davion, on 25 September 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

What this would do is encourage more mixed builds

This is precisely what proper balance should do. This is the opposite of what we have now and have had for two years (PPC meta -> laser vomit meta).

The last time a mixed build was useful was closed beta. before double heatsinks.

Heatscale would encourage mixed builds again. But they must fix tissue paper SRMs and Flamers for it to really work well.

[Spleenslitta]

Mister Blastman, on 25 September 2015 - 09:41 AM, said:

I miss running my Dragon with 4x small lasers, AC 10 and SRM 6 and doing just fine.

Remember all that? A single AC/10... was... useful. Imagine that! Nowadays 10 points of pinpoint is laughed at with a face full of 50+ point pinpoint laser vomit alpha.

I'm often at odds with Mister Blastman. But i actually find myself nodding my head here. Well said Blast.
With this kinda heatmechanic TTK would be longer just like PGI wishes and matches would be less about allout aggression and more about using our brains.

Remember back when they said MWO is a thinking players game? With this kinda heatmechanic it trully would be that.
Right now the majority of players don't think at all. They just shamble towards the center of the map mindlessly.

[CDLord HHGD]

A big thanks to everyone for their support and intelligent discussion. Even those who didn't like it provided good explanations. Where did all you adults come from? I hope PGI takes notice. Even if this isn't something they are willing to test out, it proves that the community can have a friendly discussion over a hot subject with so many differing opinions and not devolve into a flame war.