45 replies to this topic

[Lyoto Machida]

I was just in the other thread about using a real heat scale with real heat consequences (http://mwomercs.com/...l-consequences/) and an idea just popped in my head about dual Gauss mechs.

What if PGI removed the chargeup feature for single and multiple Gauss rifle setups but instead mandated it that if you carried two or more Gauss rifles, your normal unzoomed view would automatically be set at 1.5x or 2x zoom? Perhaps Gauss equipped mechs would have to have less possible zoom levels for this to work...their max normal zoom level without Advanced Zoom would not change from how it currently is stock.

In theory, this would make it more difficult to brawl and would also make single Gauss more viable for all the players who complain about not being able to use the chargeup method. I personally don't have an issue charging up the Gauss rifle but perhaps the mandatory dual Gauss zoom would make it harder to brawl with it and make taking a single Gauss rifle more palatable (not that the GR needs any help).

Not sure what a lore friendly explanation would be for the distinction between the standard zoom levels of single and dual Gauss mechs but you could make it mandatory across the board for any mechs that carry a Gauss rifle to simulate the minimum range or whatever. This would, of course, affect the usage of whatever other weapons they are carrying but such would be the consequence for having a Gauss rifle.

Thoughts on this?

EDIT: These are just ideas I'm throwing on the table due to the other thread about heat penalties. If/when PGI were to ever implement heat penalties, Gauss Rifles would become even more of the go to weapon if left as they currently are. Changed to thread title to remove the chargeup part.

Edited by Lyoto Machida, 25 September 2015 - 02:45 PM.

[Screech]

Not really sure what you are trying to gain from buffing gauss-boating. Seems like they already do their role fairly well.

[TLBFestus]

I think his idea is that, like in other FPS shooters, snipers have a restricted field of vision when firing their rifle. They can't see the guy sneaking up right beside them with a knife in his hand.

So the intent is to let them "snipe", but give them the drawback of loss of tactical vision while fighting. In a brawl, in order to be accurate they would need to be zoomed in and that would be difficult.

I would think that the zoom would have to be significant to make it a drawback at close ranges though.

[Lyoto Machida]

TLBFestus, on 25 September 2015 - 01:05 PM, said:

I think his idea is that, like in other FPS shooters, snipers have a restricted field of vision when firing their rifle. They can't see the guy sneaking up right beside them with a knife in his hand.

So the intent is to let them "snipe", but give them the drawback of loss of tactical vision while fighting. In a brawl, in order to be accurate they would need to be zoomed in and that would be difficult.

I would think that the zoom would have to be significant to make it a drawback at close ranges though.

Yes...pretty much what you're saying along with trying to fit in the 2 hex TT (60m) minimum range (which I'm assuming simulates difficulty in using the weapon up close). It's not so much making it like other FPS games but reducing the best long range weapon's ability to be used up close, since the chargeup didn't exactly do the job.

If the standard view level was 1.5x or 2x zoom, that would go a long way to making the Gauss hard to use in a brawl...rock, paper, scissors. This kind of ties in with the heat scale thing from the other thread...implementing actual heat penalties (ammo explosions, blurred vision, movement penalties, etc) would give Gauss too much free reign.

[Christof Romulus]

Unfortunately, every time this post comes up I have to say the same thing over again:

The Gauss charge mechanic serves two purposes. One purpose is to unlink it from the PPC/ERPPC, the other is to prevent it from replacing every other ballistic weapon in the game.

Forcing mechs with TWO Gauss rifles into a sniper field of view sounds fine, until you realize that Timbrawlers are bringing ONE gauss and a bunch of lasers. With your proposed change would also come the extinction of the AC 20, AC 10, AC 5, and potentially the UAC 5 - as the Gauss would be, once again, clearly superior to all of these choices at all times, for various reasons, which I will detail below:

Ac 20 vs Gauss - Gauss has a faster projectile speed (obviously), can be used in torso ballistics with an XL engine (Inner Sphere), has a much farther range (dealing more damage per hit at only a mere 365meters away!), deals damage up to 3x max range, and for 1/7th the heat!?

Ac 10 vs Gauss - I just can't even.

Why aren't people remembering any of this? This has happened before - it's why there is a charge up mechanic NOW. Gauss was the ONLY ballistic weapon except for the UAC 5 (pre jam chance). It generates no heat, it moves at over 2000m/s, it brings full damage over 600m away and deals damage over 1800m away. This isn't even a comparison, this is a joke.

The gauss should not have its charge mechanic removed. Simple as that.

[Mystere]

What if I have other weapons (e.g. lasers) in addition to dual gauss? What if I ran out of gauss ammo but have other said weapons?

[zagibu]

Gauss rifle is fine, it doesn't need changes.

[Ultimax]

So anyone who carries one Gauss is automatically penalized on all of their weapon systems all of the time?

No.


People should get used to the charge up, or admit their inability and just move to an easier weapon. It's really not that hard.

There are weapons for every skill level, one of the things the Laser meta in particular actually grants is that it's more inclusive of various skill levels - certainly far more than Poptarting was (which is why it was probably more hated, as the skill barrier for entry was higher).

[SaltBeef]

Personally, I think they took the game mdchanic I hated the most from MW4 bombast laser and added it to a great weapon. There is no reason for it when you can slap 5 AC5 on a Mauler for 25 pp damage every few seconds. 60 point laser alphas. The mechanic dulls the game. Makes the tryhards feel super elite though. Remove it.

[Slow and Decrepit]

Good luck getting the #** charge up removed, it will never happen. I would however put the AC20 ghost heat on any and all dual gauss. The weapon is just too powerful to leave it as it is. It has really hurt the TTK (dual gauss).

[zagibu]

SaltBeef, on 25 September 2015 - 02:35 PM, said:

Personally, I think they took the game mdchanic I hated the most from MW4 bombast laser and added it to a great weapon. There is no reason for it when you can slap 5 AC5 on a Mauler for 25 pp damage every few seconds. 60 point laser alphas. The mechanic dulls the game. Makes the tryhards feel super elite though. Remove it.

Sorry, but I cannot follow this reasoning. You want to remove the gauss charge up because a Mauler can boat 5xAC/5? Where's the logic in that?

[SaltBeef]

25 pp damage vs 15 maths hard. 1st weapon I will yank off my Orion 2C. 3 ER PPC nicely grouped on a Black Knight for 30 PP same as duel Guass wait a few seconds to cool.

Edited by SaltBeef, 25 September 2015 - 02:42 PM.

[Slow and Decrepit]

Prior to mechs that could carry dual gauss, the TTK wasn't nearly as bad as it is now. Dual gauss has been bad for the game.

[Ultimax]

SaltBeef, on 25 September 2015 - 02:39 PM, said:

25 pp damage vs 15 maths hard. 1st weapon I will yank off my Orion 2C.

25 pp for 40 tons vs. 15 pp for 15 tons.

Yeah, apparently for you - math is in fact hard.

[SaltBeef]

Still just as effective at Blowing chunks off. At a higher firing rate.

Edited by SaltBeef, 25 September 2015 - 02:44 PM.

[FupDup]

SaltBeef, on 25 September 2015 - 02:43 PM, said:

Still just as effective at Blowing chunks off. At a higher firing rate.

...For an extremely high opportunity cost.

[zagibu]

beleneagle, on 25 September 2015 - 02:40 PM, said:

Prior to mechs that could carry dual gauss, the TTK wasn't nearly as bad as it is now. Dual gauss has been bad for the game.

That was a looooong time ago, dude, the CPLT-K2 came out years ago.

[Lyoto Machida]

This thread probably doesn't make as much sense if you're comparing it to the current game but if PGI ever adds heat penalties such as ammo explosions, reduced movement, etc, the Gauss would be even more superior at all ranges.

Christof Romulus, on 25 September 2015 - 02:20 PM, said:

Unfortunately, every time this post comes up I have to say the same thing over again:

The Gauss charge mechanic serves two purposes. One purpose is to unlink it from the PPC/ERPPC, the other is to prevent it from replacing every other ballistic weapon in the game.

Forcing mechs with TWO Gauss rifles into a sniper field of view sounds fine, until you realize that Timbrawlers are bringing ONE gauss and a bunch of lasers. With your proposed change would also come the extinction of the AC 20, AC 10, AC 5, and potentially the UAC 5 - as the Gauss would be, once again, clearly superior to all of these choices at all times, for various reasons, which I will detail below:

Ac 20 vs Gauss - Gauss has a faster projectile speed (obviously), can be used in torso ballistics with an XL engine (Inner Sphere), has a much farther range (dealing more damage per hit at only a mere 365meters away!), deals damage up to 3x max range, and for 1/7th the heat!?

Ac 10 vs Gauss - I just can't even.

Why aren't people remembering any of this? This has happened before - it's why there is a charge up mechanic NOW. Gauss was the ONLY ballistic weapon except for the UAC 5 (pre jam chance). It generates no heat, it moves at over 2000m/s, it brings full damage over 600m away and deals damage over 1800m away. This isn't even a comparison, this is a joke.

The gauss should not have its charge mechanic removed. Simple as that.

Changing the PPC/ERPPC speeds also plays a part in desyncing the two. People can still get around the chargeup and sync by timing their shots with their fingers.

Also, I think you're missing the point about the enforced minimum zoom. How is it going to replace the AC20 at close ranges when you're forced to be zoomed in? Ever watch a new player that never leaves zoom mode when a light is running around him?

I took the single rifle mechs into account...read the OP.

"Not sure what a lore friendly explanation would be for the distinction between the standard zoom levels of single and dual Gauss mechs but you could make it mandatory across the board for any mechs that carry a Gauss rifle to simulate the minimum range or whatever. This would, of course, affect the usage of whatever other weapons they are carrying but such would be the consequence for having a Gauss rifle."

Next time, try playing your Gauss mechs zoomed in all the time (not Adv. Zoom) and see how easy it is to brawl as compared to when you are able to zoom out.

Mystere, on 25 September 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

What if I have other weapons (e.g. lasers) in addition to dual gauss? What if I ran out of gauss ammo but have other said weapons?

Sorry...due to PGI's inability to code, you're stuck with that drawback. Unless there was a way to code it so that if Gauss ammo was zero or the weapon was destroyed, your zoom would return to normal but PGI, so...

zagibu, on 25 September 2015 - 02:31 PM, said:

Gauss rifle is fine, it doesn't need changes.

Maybe as it currently stands but not if heat penalties were introduced.

Ultimatum X, on 25 September 2015 - 02:34 PM, said:

So anyone who carries one Gauss is automatically penalized on all of their weapon systems all of the time?

No.


People should get used to the charge up, or admit their inability and just move to an easier weapon. It's really not that hard.

There are weapons for every skill level, one of the things the Laser meta in particular actually grants is that it's more inclusive of various skill levels - certainly far more than Poptarting was (which is why it was probably more hated, as the skill barrier for entry was higher).

I don't have an issue with the chargeup...I leave a Jager/Dire in dual Gauss mode all the time for this reason. I took the chargeup part out of the thread title but the mandatory zoom part is the more relevant section.

[xXBagheeraXx]

no. I honstly dont mind the crossbow mechanic on Dual gauss mechs, without it even with your zoom nerf they would be able to drop nasty alphas with minimal exposure time.

I'd still like the gauss rifles HP to be buffed, and to reduce the stupidly high explosion chance tho...

[Lyoto Machida]

xXBagheeraXx, on 25 September 2015 - 02:54 PM, said:

no. I honstly dont mind the crossbow mechanic on Dual gauss mechs, without it even with your zoom nerf they would be able to drop nasty alphas with minimal exposure time.

Even at brawling ranges?