49 replies to this topic

[Wiktor Kostka]

First I think any game worth playing will make you mad and yell at your computer from time to time.
Second I think if you make every weapon nerfed and buffed to the point of complete balance, then your build no longer matters and you may as well be shooting rubber bands at each other.
Third every challenge in the game may be frustrating at times, but without that frustration you would get bored and go find another game to play.

LRM, I can not think of any other weapon that has so many drawbacks, they are heavy, they take a lot of slots, they have ammo that can be crite and blow yourself up, you can run out of ammo, you can be locked dead on target and have them blown out of the sky before they hit, you can be locked on a target and the target be in cover that you can't see and do zero damage, they do a wide spread of damage making it harder to take a component or get a kill, you can have a minimum range and do no damage, you can have your target lock taken away by ECM and/or Radar Dep,and your target is warned so it can get into cover before it is hit.

I rarely use LRMs, and I can find them frustrating when they are raining on my head. But, I don't see why everyone cries "noob weapon" and "they are ruining the game" when they get taken out by LRMs

LRMs were a big part of Battletech, and can not ruin a game that is based on Battletech. If they were not in MWO it would be ruining the connection to Battletech.

having a weapon that makes you pay attention to every mech on radar at all times and not just what is in front of you, does not sound noob. A weapon that you have to keep pointed at a target tell it hits, and is the slowest weapon in the game, does not sound noob. a weapon that if you open its ports to fire lowers your armor rating does not sound noob. A weapon that you need to wait for a visual and wait for a tone change target lock before you fire does not sound noob. A weapon that may not be able to fire all its tubes (depending on Mech it is placed on) at one time does not sound noob. a weapon that means you need to lose almost all your close defence weapons to fit enough launchers does not sound noob.

I just don't understand the crying.

Edited by Wiktor Kostka, 06 January 2015 - 03:06 PM.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Sure, but LRMs are too brutal against noobs though!



Seriously though, the problem I see is having to boat them to get any use out of them, they need a bit of a tweak so that taking one LRM 5 or one LRM 10 is not a waste and that boating them is not the only way to get any utility out of LRMs.


Edit: And their targeting currently allows us to blob missiles safely behind cover.

What I'd prefer is to have missiles follow the Crosshair / Reticle; so say a player with good aim can then try to focus down an exposed component or mass fire on a particular area as we can with most other weapons.

That also prevents players from being able to stay behind cover and lob missiles at enemies they cannot see.

Edited by Praetor Knight, 06 January 2015 - 03:17 PM.

[Rehl]

To be honest, I just stick some LRMs on my Atlas so I'll have something to do while it lumbers towards the fight.

[Serpieri]

Back in my day when the rain started - you ran for cover - but the kids today stick out their tongues and think its honey.

[JC Daxion]

i'm having tea and honey right now.. So yummy..

I love LRM's.. and they do work on good players too... Just not blind fired from 1km. But they still can kill great players..

[Latorque]

Played them for mastering, and can't shake the feeling they're the "easy-mode-profit" button. On top of that; i can't get the nasty word "killstealer" out of the back of my mind when some Timber Wolf i brawled the hell out of - and lost half my components to - is felled by a giant salvo of LRMs. On the other hand, there were times when relief washed over me when some LRM salvoes shook an enemy mech of my trail and gave me time to escape or softened him up for me to have a chance. So, as long as i carry RDM... no problem.

If i don't (which means i forgot to switch it in the mechbay)... yeah, they bore me to no end. Less on the enemy team, moreso on mine - it's that sinking feeling when you watch the minimap and see half the team hanging back, knowing they're mostly heavies / assaults. You get shot to pieces, cursing under your breath, switch to spectator mode and hop through 6 pilots farting endless streams of LRMs, while still fielding massive firepower in ballistics and lasers; which they're obviously determined to keep as pristine as the armor on their mechs. The latter obviously fails; because those armored behemoths are part of a team that is 4-6 players down by now and easy prey to an enemy team with a solid numerical advantage.

I only played them on the Catapult and the Awesome for mastering - not much choice there; and no - i wouldn't call it a challenge. The ammo count per ton is absurdly high, so even firing against a target in cover is of little consequence, the arc of firing is quite steep, so the enemy needs really high cover, and well, every kind of ammo except for gauss can blow up, harmless because the LRM-heavy mech mostly relies on not being exposed to enemy fire at all - while relying very much on those up front to expose themselves so they can get locks.

They're part of the game; sure - and being blessed with enough RDMs means they don't bug me much anymore; but i still see them as one of the most frustrating part of MWO (especially for new players, but there are enough Threads about that as it is). If it's nerf or buff LRMs, my vote goes for nerf every day of the week.

[Black Arachne]

Always found the pin point weapons to be easy mode. You point, fire, damage delivered.

LRMS - target mech, wait for lock, fire missiles, and then hope that the trajectory is good and won't hit los obstacles etc, or lose lock due to ecm and so on. And if they do hit, the damage is spread all over the place.

[Dirty Starfish]

They're almost fine as-is, but the impulse really needs to be toned down. Lrm5 spam should not shake you more than an ac-20.

[Latorque]

Black Arachne, on 06 January 2015 - 03:41 PM, said:

Always found the pin point weapons to be easy mode. You point, fire, damage delivered.

LRMS - target mech, wait for lock, fire missiles, and then hope that the trajectory is good and won't hit los obstacles etc, or lose lock due to ecm and so on. And if they do hit, the damage is spread all over the place.

The enemy has a say in that; that's what it makes it kinda awkward. Firing the direct fire weapons is not hard per se. And if ammo were more limited on LRMs, i could accept that... but keeping a flaming steel rain up pretty much constantly is not that hard.

Serial Peacemaker, on 06 January 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

They're almost fine as-is, but the impulse really needs to be toned down. Lrm5 spam should not shake you more than an ac-20.

Yeah, that should do it.

[Black Arachne]

Latorque, on 06 January 2015 - 04:00 PM, said:

The enemy has a say in that; that's what it makes it kinda awkward. Firing the direct fire weapons is not hard per se. And if ammo were more limited on LRMs, i could accept that... but keeping a flaming steel rain up pretty much constantly is not that hard.



Yeah, that should do it.

If the rain is the steady - than the target is in the open without ECM cover or has red dot on the mech and most likely getting rained on by several mechs. Now if those mechs had other weapons like PPC/Lasers/AC's - the target would of been cored before the LRMS even reached it.

Edited by Black Arachne, 06 January 2015 - 04:15 PM.

[Bartholomew bartholomew]

My problem with all the people crying about and getting lurms nerfed again and again. Is that they whine about you don't need LOS. But absolutely refuse to budge on making them as deadly as their ratings WITH LOS.

Unless I can do 20 dmg with a LRM20 in the same time as you can do 20 dmg with an AC20. Then there should be no talk of nerfing. Since the weapon system is deliberately underpowered as it stands right now.

And remember about half the nerfhearders want it GONE. not just nerfed into the ground. Cause they do not care about battletech at all. They just want their shooter.

Edited by Bartholomew bartholomew, 06 January 2015 - 04:25 PM.

[stocky0904]

thx wiktor, good post.

lrms are good as they are. LOS firing only would be the death of the whole weapon system. at times it works really good but only on targets you get from the side or from behind. but you can never attack a mech LOS front to front. you need a target lock and lrms are very slow. ok, i would only need 1t of ammo because i would be dead after 2 salvos. Because every one of those overly skillful pin point long range 3xerppc or clan erll snipers would kill me instantly. nice idea for some people i think. Remember: artillery is never LOS. and lrms are nothing else. homing missiles! bad homing missiles! every player has many ways to avoid being hit from them.

but im happy about every player without radar derp, ams and ecm cover. because i wanna have some fun too. and my fun takes place just behind the frontline, shooting at ranges from 200-500m. more than 500m is getting inefficient.

and i hate the phrase "kill stealing". There is no kill stealing in this game because a kill counts nothing (ok, some cbills), only wining the match matters. remember there is no leaderboard for your precious k/d ratio. btw my sparky makes a lot less damage than my KTOs but as many or more kills. sometimes there are matches where i make about 800 dmg and only 0-2 kills but a lot of "most damage done". im the one who should talk about "kill stealing". lol

but that 800 dmg ive done helps other players to get (their) kills easier and to win the match.

[Rizzwind]

Rehl, on 06 January 2015 - 03:13 PM, said:

To be honest, I just stick some LRMs on my Atlas so I'll have something to do while it lumbers towards the fight.

This^ I do it to. Have to have something other then ppc's that can fight back against the clan range.

[Mcgral18]

If you ever want to see the LRM history, look at the ammo explosion damage chart on Smurfy for LRM (and SRM) damage.
They've never been corrected...and it makes me laugh every time I see it.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ment#ammo_types



If you didn't notice, have a look at normal missile ammo, and then Artemis ammo.
LRM+A is at 1.8 damage, a hefty buff to what we have now; almost double. Then look at normal LRM ammo: 0.7 damage. The Nerfinator struck, and he struck hard.


SRMs are 1.5 and 2.5; we have a happy middle ground presently, with IS having an extra MG bullet and a half payload.

[El Bandito]

Before the BAP rework to counter ECM, the CPLT-A1 was the most challenging LRM/SSRM boat to play--certainly not for noobs. And played it I did. The amount of situational awareness skill I gain from the experience was invaluable.

Edited by El Bandito, 06 January 2015 - 07:21 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

Bartholomew bartholomew, on 06 January 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

My problem with all the people crying about and getting lurms nerfed again and again. Is that they whine about you don't need LOS. But absolutely refuse to budge on making them as deadly as their ratings WITH LOS.

Unless I can do 20 dmg with a LRM20 in the same time as you can do 20 dmg with an AC20. Then there should be no talk of nerfing. Since the weapon system is deliberately underpowered as it stands right now.

And remember about half the nerfhearders want it GONE. not just nerfed into the ground. Cause they do not care about battletech at all. They just want their shooter.

500m/s direct fire LRMs with flat trajectory and no lock with LoS would be fine. Indirect only with TAG/NARC/UAV and the regular arc with current speeds. TAG directs LoS fired LRMs to wherever it is pointed. Speed/angle/lock status of LRMs are locked based on if LoS was there or not when they were fired.

[Signal27]

Did you intentionally mean to respond to a thread from January?

[An Atlas]

Serial Peacemaker, on 06 January 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

They're almost fine as-is, but the impulse really needs to be toned down. Lrm5 spam should not shake you more than an ac-20.

If they turn down impulse it needs to be done across the board....

No reason clan ballistics should get to be the only thing that can cockpit spam

[Joseph Mallan]

Serial Peacemaker, on 06 January 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

They're almost fine as-is, but the impulse really needs to be toned down. Lrm5 spam should not shake you more than an ac-20.

I'm not sure about this. An AC20 is a big honkin shell sure. But LRMs are missiles with explosive... So impact shutter and explosive sutter Might be more shake than just gettin shot with an AP round.

[Lyoto Machida]

Signal27, on 25 September 2015 - 02:44 AM, said:

Did you intentionally mean to respond to a thread from January?

Why not? Has anything changed since then in regards to this topic?

Beats reading the 6274 PSR threads out there...