716 replies to this topic

[Twilight Fenrir]

Voras, on 27 October 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

Yep, easy choices:

S/M/L Lasers
PPC
AC/2,5,10,20
LRM 5/10/15/20
SRM 2/4/6
MG
Flamer

And that's it. Everything viable, no clearly superior weapons. Just, nice, old school stuff.

(Edit: forgot the flamer... me stupid... )

And lest we forget.... Fists! And Axes! And Kudgels!

I wanna take a Wasp or some other small, incredibly agile mech, give it only a big hatchet, and watch it dance around an Atlas hacking bits off! XD

[Will9761]

I can't wait to see the HBS twitch stream next week.

[Diddi Doedel]

Twilight Fenrir, on 27 October 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

And lest we forget.... Fists! And Axes! And Kudgels!

I wanna take a Wasp or some other small, incredibly agile mech, give it only a big hatchet, and watch it dance around an Atlas hacking bits off! XD

Well, before you get too excited... Don't forget that a Hatchet on a Wasp or Stinger will only do 4 Damage, that is double the damage of an MG, 1 point more than a small laser and 1 point less than a medium laser. And since BattleTech will be turn based, and the Atlas has two rear-mounted medium lasers, that means your light mech gets 10 points of damage for 4 points dealing... And since the physical attack phase is after the weapon phase, it means that the light mech might be dead due to the weapons fire of the Atlas before being able to use the Hatchet.

Edited by Diddi Doedel, 27 October 2015 - 11:26 PM.

[Voras]

Diddi Doedel, on 27 October 2015 - 11:21 PM, said:

Well, before you get too excited... Don't forget that a Hatchet on a Wasp or Stinger will only do 4 Damage, that is double the damage of an MG, 1 point more than a small laser and 1 point less than a medium laser. And since BattleTech will be turn based, and the Atlas has two rear-mounted medium lasers, that means your light mech gets 10 points of damage for 4 points dealing... And since the physical attack phase is after the weapon phase, it means that the light mech might be dead due to the weapons fire of the Atlas before being able to use the Hatchet.

Not entirely true, because the Atlas has to hit the light mech first (and the light mech has to hit the Atlas). However, getting hit by a ML is allready bad news for a light, when considering the true armor values... hell, as far as I remember, a ML would allready get into the internal structure of a Wasp arm...

[Diddi Doedel]

Voras, on 28 October 2015 - 12:24 AM, said:

Not entirely true, because the Atlas has to hit the light mech first (and the light mech has to hit the Atlas). However, getting hit by a ML is allready bad news for a light, when considering the true armor values... hell, as far as I remember, a ML would allready get into the internal structure of a Wasp arm...

True. Hitting an opponent, especially a fast light with a possibly high to-hit modifier is always a problem, but "dancing around" an atlas will result in a rather low to-hit modifier. If that Atlas just stands still, and the Wasp or Stinger "dances" around, it can get at most an additional +3 hit modifier, more likely just a +2, that would make the hit-roll a 6 or 7 on 2d6... More than likely to hit.

[Zolaz]

Hmmmm ... HBS PvP more complex and in depth than PGI CW. Though to be honest, PGI did have a much more complex pitch they presented when they were originally collecting money for their Kickstarter.

[Pihoqahiak]

Twilight Fenrir, on 27 October 2015 - 03:12 PM, said:

And lest we forget.... Fists! And Axes! And Kudgels!

I wanna take a Wasp or some other small, incredibly agile mech, give it only a big hatchet, and watch it dance around an Atlas hacking bits off! XD

The Hatchetman was a very rare mech in the 3025 year that the game is going to be set in since it just started initial production in 3023 and it was the first military grade mech fielding a melee weapon. I doubt very much you will see melee weapons in the game unless they really go into the more non-military flavor of the Solaris matches.

[KuroNyra]

Ed Steele, on 25 October 2015 - 01:23 PM, said:

Plus, the 3025 era was when BattleTech was "Game of Thrones" in space.

"Brace yourselves. Clans are coming."

[stjobe]

Pihoqahiak, on 28 October 2015 - 01:01 AM, said:

The Hatchetman was a very rare mech in the 3025 year that the game is going to be set in since it just started initial production in 3023 and it was the first military grade mech fielding a melee weapon. I doubt very much you will see melee weapons in the game unless they really go into the more non-military flavor of the Solaris matches.

According to the original Mercenary's Handbook (which seems to be the inspiration for the upcoming game), it was rare yes, but not as rare as some other 'mechs. On the Availability Table (p. 35) you needed to roll 9+ to get one, as compared to e.g. 10+ for a Spider, Blackjack, Catapult, Goliath, or Victor.

9+ was also the availability for a Commando, Jenner, Assassin, Hermes II, Scorpion, Dragon, JagerMech, and Charger, whereas e.g the Locust, Wasp, Stinger, Dervish, and Crusader were all available on a 4+.

[NocturnalBeast]

Uh oh! Five days left and still about $350000 to go to get to PVP. :-(

[Wildstreak]

Ed Steele, on 28 October 2015 - 04:07 PM, said:

Uh oh! Five days left and still about $350000 to go to get to PVP. :-(

At least over $50K for the Legendary Mechs & Warriors.

gh0s7m3rc, on 28 October 2015 - 02:16 AM, said:

We probably won't get the Hatchetman/Axman, since neither are or will be in MWO, buuuuut the Yen-Lo-Wang does have a Hatchet on the left arm.

Source: http://www.sarna.net...ion_(BattleMech)

The question is will HBS modify the model and animations to include the Hatchet. Or even if the player will have the YLW at all; perhaps if the project reaches the second Stage 3 goal (which is at less of 25K to go).

I don't know who wrote that but they got it wrong. Yen-Lo-Wang does not have a hatchet, it has claws. Certain fingers on the left hand were extended and sharpened for the physical attack. Maybe it is treated as a hatchet under game rules but that is not really what it is.

Picture from the CCG, check the right side.


Another of a miniature.

[Solis Obscuri]

I'm very excited for this. The Shadowrun games Harebrained Schemes has put out have been favorites of mine, and I'm eager to see what they can put together for Battletech! Really glad to see both MWO and Catalyst coming together in support of them, too. I just hope the KS can hit that multiplayer goal...

[Will9761]

Nice! We finally have the Legendary Mechs and Mechwarriors funded. One more feature to go:

[Twilight Fenrir]

Diddi Doedel, on 27 October 2015 - 11:21 PM, said:

Well, before you get too excited... Don't forget that a Hatchet on a Wasp or Stinger will only do 4 Damage, that is double the damage of an MG, 1 point more than a small laser and 1 point less than a medium laser. And since BattleTech will be turn based, and the Atlas has two rear-mounted medium lasers, that means your light mech gets 10 points of damage for 4 points dealing... And since the physical attack phase is after the weapon phase, it means that the light mech might be dead due to the weapons fire of the Atlas before being able to use the Hatchet.

Oh geeze, I thought melee was more effective than that... Or does it scale based on the size of the mech?

Wildstreak, on 28 October 2015 - 04:47 PM, said:

At least over $50K for the Legendary Mechs & Warriors.


I don't know who wrote that but they got it wrong. Yen-Lo-Wang does not have a hatchet, it has claws. Certain fingers on the left hand were extended and sharpened for the physical attack. Maybe it is treated as a hatchet under game rules but that is not really what it is.

Picture from the CCG, check the right side.


Another of a miniature.

Yen Lo Wang was modified several times over its career... I don't have anything other than Sarna to point to myself... But I'll pay attention when I get to that point in the novels. (I jist started reading my Pre-Blood of Kerensky trilogy books for the first time)

[dragnier1]

What mech are you weekly missions.

First attempt - Hunchback. Second, Victor

[Diddi Doedel]

Twilight Fenrir, on 29 October 2015 - 05:04 AM, said:

Oh geeze, I thought melee was more effective than that... Or does it scale based on the size of the mech?


Yen Lo Wang was modified several times over its career... I don't have anything other than Sarna to point to myself... But I'll pay attention when I get to that point in the novels. (I jist started reading my Pre-Blood of Kerensky trilogy books for the first time)

Yes, It scales with mech size. A hatchet/sword/cudgel or whatever does the same damage as a kick, 1 point of damage for every 5 tons of mech weight. So a hatchet on an Atlas would deal 20 points of damage.
The interesting thing about melee weapons is twofold. First, you hit only the upper body part of the enemy, means arms, torsos and HEAD!!, and you only roll a single D6 for the location, so hitting the head is a chance of 1 in 6! Second, should you fail, there is no need to do a piloting roll in order to avoid falling.
Downsides are that you cannot use any arm mounted weapons that reside in the arm that also has your melee weapon located.

In table top we usually prefered the pack approach with kicks.... Each time an enemy mech is hit by a kick, a piloting roll is required, modified by damage... so a single roll for each successful kick. With potentially over 20 points of damage on the enemy during physical attack phase, and potentially damaged leg actuators that often almost guaranteed that the enemy would fall, thus couldn't escape from range and thus was basically dead the next round.

Oh well... am a hardcore TT player of BT still.

[stjobe]

Twilight Fenrir, on 29 October 2015 - 05:04 AM, said:

Oh geeze, I thought melee was more effective than that... Or does it scale based on the size of the mech?

Yes, it scales with tonnage.

Regular punching is (attacker tonnage / 10) damage to the target. A 45-ton Hatchetman punching with its left arm does (45 / 10 = 4.5 = 5) damage.

Punching with a melee weapon is (attacker tonnage / 5) damage to the target. A Hatchetman punching with its right arm does (45 / 5 = 9) damage.

Kicking is (attacker tonnage / 5) damage to the target. A hatchetman kicking does (45 / 5 = 9) damage.

Charging is a bit more complicated, but it's ((attacker tonnage / 10 ) * hexes moved) to the target, and (target tonnage / 10) to the attacker, plus a forced piloting roll for both (in addition to any damage-based piloting roll that may or may not be applicable). Target is pushed out of the hex it's in, and attacker takes its place. A Hatchetman charging an Atlas over 4 hexes does (4.5 * 4 = 18) damage to the Atlas, and takes 10 damage itself.

Death From Above is calculated like a 3-hex charge, but the attacker takes (target tonnage / 5) damage and damage is rolled on the punching hit location table for the target, and kicking hit location for the attacker (attacker can only take damage to the legs, target only to the upper body), and a piloting skill roll for both. Unlike the charge, the target is pushed one hex even if the attack fails (nota bene: if the target cannot be pushed for any reason, the target is destroyed if the attack succeeded; if it fails, the attacker is destroyed!). A Hatchetman doing a DFA on an Atlas does (4.5 * 3 = 13.5 = 14) damage to the upper body of the Atlas, and takes 20 damage to its legs.

Edited by stjobe, 29 October 2015 - 01:25 PM.

[martian]

Diddi Doedel, on 29 October 2015 - 06:12 AM, said:

The interesting thing about melee weapons is twofold. First, you hit only the upper body part of the enemy, means arms, torsos and HEAD!!, and you only roll a single D6 for the location, so hitting the head is a chance of 1 in 6!

That's not correct. Almost always you roll on the full body hit table.

[stjobe]

martian, on 29 October 2015 - 01:33 PM, said:

That's not correct. Almost always you roll on the full body hit table.

Er, no. Please consult pp.144-153 of your copy of Total Warfare. I quote, for punching: "Determine damage location by rolling 1D6 and consulting the appropriate column of the ’Mech Punch Location Table based on whether the ’Mech is a biped or four-legged design." (Total Warfare, p.145)

Here's the 'Mech Punch Location Table:


(Total Warfare, p.145)

Likewise, kicks use the 'Mech Kick Location Table (on page 147 in Total Warfare), which only has legs as locations.

DFA, as I posted above, uses the punch location table for damage to the target, and the kick location table for damage to the attacker.

It is ONLY when charging you use the regular (full-body) hit location table, and damage from charging is split into 5-damage groups which are rolled for separately (this is also done for DFA, but NOT for punching and kicking - damage from those are applied as one hit to one location).

This means that the Hatchetman I used as an example above, when making a DFA against a target, does not have one 1-in-6 chance of damaging the head of the target, but three 1-in-6 chances to do so (for 5 + 5 + 4 damage, respectively). If it punches, it has one 1-in-6 chance to hit the head.

Edited by stjobe, 29 October 2015 - 01:57 PM.

[martian]

stjobe, on 29 October 2015 - 01:49 PM, said:

Er, no. Please consult pp.144-153 of your copy of Total Warfare. I quote, for punching: "Determine damage location by rolling 1D6 and consulting the appropriate column of the ’Mech Punch Location Table based on whether the ’Mech is a biped or four-legged design." (Total Warfare, p.145)

Here's the 'Mech Punch Location Table:


(Total Warfare, p.145)

Likewise, kicks use the 'Mech Kick Location Table (on page 147 in Total Warfare), which only has legs as locations.

DFA, as I posted above, uses the punch location table for damage to the target, and the kick location table for damage to the attacker.

It is ONLY when charging you use the regular (full-body) hit location table, and damage from charging is split into 5-damage groups which are rolled for separately (this is also done for DFA, but NOT for punching and kicking - damage from those are applied as one hit to one location).

This means that the Hatchetman I used as an example above, when making a DFA against a target, does not have one 1-in-6 chance of damaging the head of the target, but three 1-in-6 chances to do so (for 5 + 5 + 4 damage, respectively). If it punches, it has one 1-in-6 chance to hit the head.

The talk's about Melee weapons: "The interesting thing about melee weapons is twofold....", not about physical attacks in general. Check Total Warfare, p.146 to see some common physical weapons and their default hit tables.

Edited by martian, 29 October 2015 - 02:45 PM.