56 replies to this topic

[Jman5]

No more mucking around, no more pie in the sky ideas. Here are simple changes that will modestly improve Ballistic weapons without breaking anything.

Ammo Change

Problem: Tonnage. They're too heavy when you factor all the weapons, ammo, and CASE(?).

Solution: Add more ammo/ton. The goal I would aim for is 200 damage per ton of Ammo. Similar to what you did for the AC/10 a few months back. Don't want to bother mathing it out? No problem! I'll do all the work for you.

-----------------------------------------------

• AC/2: 75 -> 100
  
• AC/5: 30 -> 40
  
• UAC/5: 30 -> 40
  
• AC/10: unchanged
  
• LB10X: 15 -> 20
  
• AC/20: 7 -> 10
  
• M-Gun: 2,000 -> 2,500

-----------------------------------------------

• Clan UAC/2: 75 -> 100
  
• Clan UAC/5: 60 -> 80
  
• Clan UAC/10: Unchanged
  
• Clan UAC/20: 28 -> 40
  
• Clan M-Gun: 2,000 -> 2,500

------------------------------------------------

• LB2X: 75 -> 100
  
• LB5X: 30 -> 40
  
• LB10X: 15 -> 20
  
• LB20X: 7 -> 10

This may not seem like much, but what it does is improve the tonnage efficiency by about 1/2 - 1 ton per weapon. Not a crazy change, but it helps mitigate the primary problem with ballistics. This is also the only way to address the tonnage issue without breaking stock builds.




AC/2, UAC/2, and LB2X Change:

Problem: They're way too hot!

Solution: Change heat from 1 -> 0.5

LBX Change

Problem: They can't really compete with other autocannons and if you want spread damage, you might as well use an SRM 6.

Solution: Increase pellet damage from 1 -> 1.3 (LB10x would do 13 damage now)

Note: You'll notice that I left out Gauss. For the time being I think we should leave it's ammo/ton where it is.
Note2: You will also notice that the new LBX damage increase breaks the 200 dmg/ton guideline. I think when you factor in the the spread and missing it all evens out.

Bonus Fix:
Give AC/2 and AC/2 derivatives Weapon Cooldown Modules please!

Edited by Jman5, 29 September 2015 - 12:12 PM.

[Lugh]

As a lover of Dakka I support these changes.

[Mcgral18]

If PGI doesn't want to increase LBx damage oytright, increase CriDamMultiplier from 2x to 5x, to become an actual Crit Weapon.


Also a thought, turn isCASE into CASEll, to make it worthwhile, even on isXL mechs.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Jman5, on 29 September 2015 - 08:20 AM, said:

No more mucking around, no more pie in the sky ideas. Here are simple changes that will modestly improve Ballistic weapons without breaking anything.

Ammo Change

Problem: Tonnage. They're too heavy when you factor all the weapons, ammo, and CASE(?).

Solution: Add more ammo/ton. The goal I would aim for is 200 damage per ton of Ammo. Similar to what you did for the AC/10 a few months back. Don't want to bother mathing it out? No problem! I'll do all the work for you.

-----------------------------------------------

• AC/2: 75 -> 100
  
• AC/5: 30 -> 40
  
• UAC/5: 30 -> 40
  
• AC/10: unchanged
  
• LB10X: 15 -> 20
  
• AC/20: 7 -> 10
  
• M-Gun: 2,000 -> 2,500

-----------------------------------------------

• Clan UAC/2: 75 -> 100
  
• Clan UAC/5: 60 -> 80
  
• Clan UAC/10: Unchanged
  
• Clan UAC/20: 28 -> 40
  
• Clan M-Gun: 2,000 -> 2,500

------------------------------------------------

• LB2X: 75 -> 100
  
• LB5X: 30 -> 40
  
• LB10X: 15 -> 20
  
• LB20X: 7 -> 10

This may not seem like much, but what it does is improve the tonnage efficiency by about 1/2 - 1 ton per weapon. Not a crazy change, but it helps mitigate the primary problem with ballistics. This is also the only way to address the tonnage issue without breaking stock builds.



AC/2, UAC/2, and LB2X Change:

Problem: They're way too hot!

Solution: Change heat from 1 -> 0.5

LBX Change

Problem: They can't really compete with other autocannons and if you want spread damage, you might as well use an SRM 6.

Solution: Increase pellet damage from 1 -> 1.3 (LB10x would do 13 damage now)

Note: You'll notice that I left out Gauss. For the time being I think we should leave it's ammo/ton where it is.

Excellent post. I agree with all points. Now if only PGI would pay attention to general forums and make small changes like this more than once a year.

[Jman5]

Mcgral18, on 29 September 2015 - 08:24 AM, said:

If PGI doesn't want to increase LBx damage oytright, increase CriDamMultiplier from 2x to 5x, to become an actual Crit Weapon.


Also a thought, turn isCASE into CASEll, to make it worthwhile, even on isXL mechs.

I didn't mention crit changes because I didn't want to make my OP too large. However, what I would do is is increase all component item health from 10 -> 11. This way the PPC and AC/10s can't 1-shot KO an item with a single crit roll. This gives crit weapons a little more breathing room.

Switching to CASE II would probably be a good idea from what I have read on it.

Edited by Jman5, 29 September 2015 - 08:36 AM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

And get rid of 2xAC-20 ghost heat. <3

[Juodas Varnas]

[Escef]

Jman5, on 29 September 2015 - 08:34 AM, said:

Switching to CASE II would probably be a good idea from what I have read on it.

Honestly, in MWO intelligent ammo placement usually avoids the need for any such thing.

[Mcgral18]

Escef, on 29 September 2015 - 08:44 AM, said:

Honestly, in MWO intelligent ammo placement usually avoids the need for any such thing.

Mainly isGauss and XLs, but also applicable to ammo.

Just not Clam CASE as it's free.

[Nightmare1]

Jman5, on 29 September 2015 - 08:20 AM, said:

No more mucking around, no more pie in the sky ideas. Here are simple changes that will modestly improve Ballistic weapons without breaking anything.

Ammo Change

Problem: Tonnage. They're too heavy when you factor all the weapons, ammo, and CASE(?).

Solution: Add more ammo/ton. The goal I would aim for is 200 damage per ton of Ammo. Similar to what you did for the AC/10 a few months back. Don't want to bother mathing it out? No problem! I'll do all the work for you.

-----------------------------------------------

• AC/2: 75 -> 100
  
• AC/5: 30 -> 40
  
• UAC/5: 30 -> 40
  
• AC/10: unchanged
  
• LB10X: 15 -> 20
  
• AC/20: 7 -> 10
  
• M-Gun: 2,000 -> 2,500

-----------------------------------------------

• Clan UAC/2: 75 -> 100
  
• Clan UAC/5: 60 -> 80
  
• Clan UAC/10: Unchanged
  
• Clan UAC/20: 28 -> 40
  
• Clan M-Gun: 2,000 -> 2,500

------------------------------------------------

• LB2X: 75 -> 100
  
• LB5X: 30 -> 40
  
• LB10X: 15 -> 20
  
• LB20X: 7 -> 10

This may not seem like much, but what it does is improve the tonnage efficiency by about 1/2 - 1 ton per weapon. Not a crazy change, but it helps mitigate the primary problem with ballistics. This is also the only way to address the tonnage issue without breaking stock builds.




AC/2, UAC/2, and LB2X Change:

Problem: They're way too hot!

Solution: Change heat from 1 -> 0.5

LBX Change

Problem: They can't really compete with other autocannons and if you want spread damage, you might as well use an SRM 6.

Solution: Increase pellet damage from 1 -> 1.3 (LB10x would do 13 damage now)

Note: You'll notice that I left out Gauss. For the time being I think we should leave it's ammo/ton where it is.
Note2: You will also notice that the new LBX damage increase breaks the 200 dmg/ton guideline. I think when you factor in the the spread and missing it all evens out.

I would add: Remove all Ghost Heat from ballistics. It's still present on some calibers and really needs to disappear.

[Ultimax]

I agree with all of those and also feel a 100m/s to 200m/s velocity improvement across the board would be good.

[KHETTI]

I'm okay with these changes, but for LBX's i'd like to see them get a reduced recycle time like the cent D but not quite as severe.

[FupDup]

I would add a modest cooldown buff to Class-2 ACs, reduce it to something like ~0.6 or such (current is 0.71). Reduced heat is nice and all, but having even zero heat doesn't help much if you aren't inflicting any damage (i.e. Machine Guns).

[Escef]

FupDup, on 29 September 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

I would add a modest cooldown buff to Class-2 ACs, reduce it to something like ~0.6 or such (current is 0.71). Reduced heat is nice and all, but having even zero heat doesn't help much if you aren't inflicting any damage (i.e. Machine Guns).

Conversely, you need to be careful that you don't turn AC2s into anti-mech drills. I have 3xAC2 on my BLR-1D, I've seen what it can do when you get the drop on someone, and it isn't pretty.

[FupDup]

Escef, on 29 September 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

Conversely, you need to be careful that you don't turn AC2s into anti-mech drills. I have 3xAC2 on my BLR-1D, I've seen what it can do when you get the drop on someone, and it isn't pretty.

They require continuous facetime to be used as "drills" so I'm not really afraid of such builds becoming a thing, especially in this age where huge laser vomit alpha strikes exist. I'd still be much more afraid of a 6 UAC/5 or 4 UAC/10 Daishi.

[Mister Blastman]

All logical and well thought out solutions. Make it so.

[Escef]

FupDup, on 29 September 2015 - 10:02 AM, said:

They require continuous facetime to be used as "drills" so I'm not really afraid of such builds becoming a thing, especially in this age where huge laser vomit alpha strikes exist. I'd still be much more afraid of a 6 UAC/5 or 4 UAC/10 Daishi.

The idea I'm getting at is that baseline AC2s shouldn't be out DPSing some of those UAC based monsters. As is, 3xAC2 out DPSes 2xGauss for significantly less tonnage. The facetime is a tradeoff I'll take, but combined with the heat is very questionable (but fun for a s***s'n'giggles solo queue game).

[FupDup]

Escef, on 29 September 2015 - 10:08 AM, said:

The idea I'm getting at is that baseline AC2s shouldn't be out DPSing some of those UAC based monsters. As is, 3xAC2 out DPSes 2xGauss for significantly less tonnage. The facetime is a tradeoff I'll take, but combined with the heat is very questionable (but fun for a s***s'n'giggles solo queue game).

If the AC/2 had some kind of utility other than DPS, I might be able to understand that. However, DPS is literally the only thing the gun does.

It can't do upfront alpha strikes, because 2 damage for 6 tons is atrocious. PGI will never increase the damage per shell, and I strongly doubt that they would let it fire a burst of several shells that each dealt 2 damage (e.g. burst of 2 shells, each shell being 2 damage each, every 2 seconds or whatever).

This is all there is. I'm not going to just leave this gun in the trashbin, I'm using the only tools we have available for fixing it.

Edited by FupDup, 29 September 2015 - 10:12 AM.

[Jman5]

FupDup, on 29 September 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

I would add a modest cooldown buff to Class-2 ACs, reduce it to something like ~0.6 or such (current is 0.71). Reduced heat is nice and all, but having even zero heat doesn't help much if you aren't inflicting any damage (i.e. Machine Guns).

The AC/2's DPS is already formidable for a ballistic weapon. The problem is that you chew through heat too fast which makes the AC/5 or UAC/5 much more sensible alternatives.

[FupDup]

Jman5, on 29 September 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

The AC/2's DPS is already formidable for a ballistic weapon. The problem is that you chew through heat too fast which makes the AC/5 or UAC/5 much more sensible alternatives.

I've already debunked the heat boogeyman.

A mech with 10 DHS and 2 AC/2 can fire continuously for 2 minutes and 5 seconds until it overheats: 2 AC/2 Heat Tester

With 10 DHS and 3 AC/2, you can fire for 32 seconds: 3 AC/2 Heat Tester

If you add more DHS, you can go even longer than that.

Having low heat doesn't kill people, damage kills people. Low heat can sometimes allow you to deal more of that damage (e.g. Gauss Rifle), but having microscopic damage invalidates any amount of heat you save. Machine Guns generate ZERO heat, and they're still pretty pooptastic.

Even if you made the AC/2 generate zero heat itself, it would not be competitive and would be outclassed by the majority of other guns in Puglandia.

Edited by FupDup, 29 September 2015 - 10:23 AM.