92 replies to this topic

[Homeskilit]

Just the same a Firing Line can re-from itself, it is not like I said "these mechs must stand in the exact spot the rest of the game no matter what".

Also, I was aiming for simple, simple is much easier to understand and execute, especially in a PUG.

Edited by Homeskilit, 30 September 2015 - 01:01 PM.

[Lugh]

Davegt27, on 30 September 2015 - 12:43 PM, said:

USAF might have a better way



just saying

That scene still gives me chills.

[Homeskilit]

Good thing we do not have orbital bombardment consumables yeah?

[Kira Onime]

Very few maps have locations where you can setup a proper firing line with all of your mechs.

You're more likely to see a line compromised of a couple of mechs

[Deathlike]

Conceptually, it sounds good.

Execution-wise, many teams don't do them well.

It is what it is.

[Homeskilit]

Deathlike, on 30 September 2015 - 01:22 PM, said:

Conceptually, it sounds good.

Execution-wise, many teams don't do them well.

When you say teams do you mean competitive teams, 12 man groups, or pugs?

[Oncoshi]

You all forgot the Nascar!

[Belazaar]

No tactic will work 100% of the time and is why there needs to be a leader to adjust the unit as needed. While the mini map can show you what others are doing, its not the same and slows down response time.

Another problem is with random solo drops there is no coordination of the roles. Snipers and LRM boats don't normally follow the team they look for their spots.

Most teams go to the same spots on a map it makes it easy to flank or snipe.

Most teams to don't pay attention to where their lances drop or what roles are being play, so they make poor decisions on where to move.

Like the hill on Alpine when your assault mechs are the farthest from the hill and then have to go up a steep incline or standing in the open when you have no ecm or cover in Caustic Valley.

We need people to lead, people to follow and people to communicate.

And you can't assume everyone will play the way you do, there is no 100% way to play. It's all fluid.

[Mazzyplz]

Oncoshi, on 30 September 2015 - 01:30 PM, said:

You all forgot the Nascar!

no we did not; crossing the T is what nascar is attempting to accomplish;'it was mentioned in pages 1-2-3

[Apnu]

Homeskilit, on 29 September 2015 - 09:44 PM, said:

One of the reasons the Death Ball is so effective is because people do not understand it nor how to counter it, so I will attempt to explain it.

The Firing Line (Red troops) and Death Ball (Blue troops) were the primary tactics in the Napoleonic Era of warfare. The French favored the Death Ball (called a Column) and used it to great effect, in fact they nearly conquered all of Europe with this tactic. Why? Because no one could stand toe to toe with them. When you are in a thin line and the mass of enemy is coming towards you it is frightening, everyone broke. So why do we not call Europe France right now? Because the English had DISCIPLINE! (Not going to discuss the winter campaign in Russia right now).

Notice how many front facing Red guys are able to fire? Notice how many front facing Blue guys are able to fire? That means ALL the red guys are pouring their fire into the Blue guys in front? The Blue guys will lose. Now your team is going to take damage and you are going to lose troops, but the Line will prevail every time as long as they HOLD. For every player who does not participate in the Firing Line, the ability for it to stop the Death Ball drops.

Now once the Firing Line has been achieved, and the Death Ball has been stopped, the game changes, you must now adapt to these changes in order to win. It is completely possible the other team sees your Firing Line and adjusts their strategy, It is up to you and your team to determine what best to do from then on, but a complete, unwavering Firing Line will always stop a Death Ball.

True, but both the British and the French had training and communication. Something most PUGs lack.

I've given up on the firing line, personally. The death ball is easy to call for and maintain. I do try to find a buddy mech and focus targets with that player. I let them do whatever, I keep out of their firing lane, I don't get behind them, if they back up towards me I move my butt away. The advantage for me (usually in a medium mech) is the enemy aggro goes to the buddy (usually an assault, but I'll pair with a heavy if it comes to it) turns into mobile cover for me. The upside for him is, I keep the fleas off their backs and I open armor sections for them to exploit and get kills.

the buddy system works and it requires zero communication. Of course, sometimes, the buddy is incompatible with me. I'm a short and medium range brawler, so if I happen to shadow a LRM boat or GR cheese dire, when I figure out they're going to cower in the back, I abandon them and find a new buddy.

Beyond that I'll call out targets on coms. Its amazing what a couple of statements like "Focus Charlie Atlas" and "Foxtrot Jager is soft CT, finish him" can do for a game. I even do this after I'm dead and I'm observing someone. I've seen losing games turn around when someone simply calls out targets and really simple intel.

[Deathlike]

Homeskilit, on 30 September 2015 - 01:26 PM, said:

When you say teams do you mean competitive teams, 12 man groups, or pugs?

I generally mean not-so-coordinated teams.

[Homeskilit]

Part of the problem with coordination is that many people do not understand what a Firing Line is and why is it able to stop a Death Ball, so calling for one is not a viable strategy at the moment out side of well a coordinated team, hence this thread. Another part of the problem is the out of date pre game lobby. If we could see our allies builds (or at least let us designate our role when we que up) then the Commander of a drop can better utilize the tools at his disposal. Also, having a functioning Battlegrid instead of a simple picture of the map could help teams strategize in the lobby.

Edited by Homeskilit, 30 September 2015 - 02:43 PM.

[Deathlike]

Homeskilit, on 30 September 2015 - 02:42 PM, said:

Part of the problem with coordination is that many people do not understand what a Firing Line is and why is it able to stop a Death Ball, so calling for one is not a viable strategy at the moment out side of well a coordinated team, hence this thread. Another part of the problem is the out of date pre game lobby. If we could see our allies builds (or at least let us designate our role when we que up) then the Commander of a drop can better utilize the tools at his disposal. Also, having a functioning Battlegrid instead of a simple picture of the map could help teams strategize in the lobby.

That makes too much sense.

We'll get that in 2020.

[Homeskilit]

Deathlike, on 30 September 2015 - 02:46 PM, said:

That makes too much sense.

We'll get that in 2020.

Hahahahahahah, got me!

[Mazzyplz]

i wish the commander role was updated; i proposed such things over 2 years ago.

i even asked for a separate "commander tier" way back when -

my ideas proved very unpopular; draw your own conclusion from that

nobody wanted command role to be taken seriously. it would surprise me if they do now

[Homeskilit]

Mazzyplz, on 30 September 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

i wish the commander role was updated; i proposed such things over 2 years ago.

i even asked for a separate "commander tier" way back when -

my ideas proved very unpopular; draw your own conclusion from that

Well just like in Government, sometimes proposed changes are shot down because the timing was not right. An idea or plan (even an extremely good one) can be shot down and then alternatively passed just a few years later with little change to it.

We must stay positive and keep pushing for changes we think will improve the game. We are all here because we want this game to succeed are we not?

Edited by Homeskilit, 30 September 2015 - 02:52 PM.

[AlphaToaster]

Both tactics work depending on the situation. If a well organized death ball rolls into an equally organized firing line, I believe the firing line will win.

If one or the other is not prepared to receive the other, it's no match.

Deathball is an easier tactic to get random pugs to follow. It's very K.I.S.S. (Keep It Simple Stupid). Keep moving forward, crash into the enemy line, brawl. Don't bug out when you get hit, there are people right behind. Accept that if your mech is in the front, you are going to die, make it glorious. Sometimes you don't die and it's even more glorious.

The firing line has all kinds of IFs that have to go well. IF lights show up, only the assigned anti-light mechs move on the line, the big guys have to trust in their teammates not to stop firing. IF the deathball is coming in at an angle, the line has to be able to shift so everyone is still firing on targets together without the line disintegrating.

I'd say the Firing line is harder to pull off since it requires more coordination, but the payoff is higher.

This is all In a vacuum of course. There's situations which tip the scale either way depending.

[Idealsuspect]

Good theory but it seem you dont include overheating mechs in red team ...

[AlphaToaster]

Idealsuspect, on 30 September 2015 - 03:54 PM, said:

Good theory but it seem you dont include overheating mechs in red team ...

If red team in the image is clans, Gauss don't overheat....

[Burktross]

KuroNyra, on 29 September 2015 - 10:05 PM, said:

the Latter with Deep-something.

DEEP STRIKE