129 replies to this topic

[MerryIguana]

Appogee, on 01 October 2015 - 09:21 AM, said:

Knowing my tier has given me an actual goal in MWO for first time in three years.

No offense, but that is depressing. Did you really need a number to focus you on improvement? Have fun and get better should be everyones goal from day one.

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 01 October 2015 - 09:47 AM, said:

To be fair, it doesn't track throughout your lifetime... just a small subsection (you're penalized for having not played beyond this year).

Either way, the system was probably flawed way before Paul said anything in depth.

I still say they were all wasted efforts. We should just have stuck to "random".

[Speedy Plysitkos]

OP dont like MAMBO MAMBO JAMBO song... ok.

[Mystere]

Deathlike, on 01 October 2015 - 09:50 AM, said:

It wouldn't make a difference in the opt-in system.

If it were shown privately by design, people would simply be taking pictures, and calling each other out if they photoshopped it.

I mean, that's what would've really ended up happening.

And those would easily and rightfully trigger "Basement dwelling tool!" alerts.

[Wintersdark]

Prosperity Park, on 01 October 2015 - 10:06 AM, said:

Many people have stated that the Tier1 is a "goal" for them.

If a new player joins MWO and wins their first 30 consecutive matches, then they will not be in Tier 1. Not even Tier 2.

Tier 1 means you have been playing for long time. Nothing else, really. If the law of averages nets you a 50/50 win loss ratio, and you play for a long time, then you are Tier 1. Is that your goal? To get a 50/50 win/loss ratio?

How is that a lofty goal that requires a Tier rating? That's not very impressive.

It's not really about how impressive the goal is, just that it IS a goal.

The only reason I care about raising mine, for example, is simply because it's something to do, some reason to chose things. In this case, it's given me a reason to outfit some mechs in particular ways, and that's fun for me.

I realize it's largely an XP bar (my forum epeen would be so much bigger if it showed total xp gained!); I really don't care what anyone thinks of it. I'm not a competitive person in the slightest.

I'm just happy to have something I can work at, really.

[Deathlike]

MerryIguana, on 01 October 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

No offense, but that is depressing. Did you really need a number to focus you on improvement? Have fun and get better should be everyones goal from day one.

Yes.

Mind you, some people got their Tier 1 through massive volume playing.

The reality is that I'm probably going to be in-between that, and I'm not going to pretend I'm a true Tier 1 either.

When you grind so many mechs and gotten too much GXP to do anything with (converted 0 GXP via MC), there needs some goal other than being a Pokemech collector... that's for sure.

[Wintersdark]

MerryIguana, on 01 October 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

No offense, but that is depressing. Did you really need a number to focus you on improvement? Have fun and get better should be everyones goal from day one.

What's wrong with it?

Obviously, everyone (yeah, yeah, I know, MMO players and "fun") wants to have fun, and get better.

The problem is, if you can't or don't want to be involved in competitive play, there's never been any metric for "get better". It's hard to quantify how much you've gotten better, or even if you have at all, particularly back in the Elo days. You could be getting worse and not notice, if your Elo was dropping smoothly.

A number, a progress bar, makes it easy and fun, a simple goal to work at. This is not a character flaw. It's exactly why video games have pretty much always had scores =)

[Felicitatem Parco]

MerryIguana, on 01 October 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

No offense, but that is depressing. Did you really need a number to focus you on improvement? Have fun and get better should be everyones goal from day one.

It's depressing because Appogee's goal is a 50/50 wn/loss ratio.

My goals usually involve positive win/loss ratios or something like that. I do not strive to be average, but others can feel free to worship their false Gods as they see fit.

[Aresye]

Mystere, on 01 October 2015 - 10:03 AM, said:

You will probably see only a few. But, I was also lucky enough to see a bunch more before the posters deleted them.

I browse these forums every single day (not something I'm particularly proud of), and there's been MAYBE 2-3 separate players that posted some form of Tier based elitism that was 100% serious. Everything else has been sarcastic. Even Alistair's "Valid Opinions" post was meant as a joke, which is what I think you're referring to when you say deleted posts, because his original was deleted along with some quoted replies.

*Edit*
Forgot to mention, but I was ON the forums like a hawk right as the patch went live, and had fun participating in the forum topics over the next few hours after that. Aside from Kristian's "For those that doubted me," topic, I never saw anything else, and that was only 1 player. I'm calling your bluff.

Edited by Aresye Kerensky, 01 October 2015 - 10:21 AM.

[MerryIguana]

Deathlike, on 01 October 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

Yes.

Mind you, some people got their Tier 1 through massive volume playing.

The reality is that I'm probably going to be in-between that, and I'm not going to pretend I'm a true Tier 1 either.

When you grind so many mechs and gotten too much GXP to do anything with (converted 0 GXP via MC), there needs some goal other than being a Pokemech collector... that's for sure.

[1453 R]

Wintersdark, on 01 October 2015 - 10:07 AM, said:

I've gone from my seed location under the P in pilot to under the final L in Skill, over maybe 25 matches. That seems pretty quick to me; if I was one of those crazy sorts who played for hours at a time I'd have been in T2 very quickly.

But, as I said, I'm gaining rating in very nearly every single match, win or lose.

The problem I bet your friends are having is that they're playing good mechs. You don't gain rating fast that way. You gain rating fast by abusing the system. Drive a laser vomit/gauss mech is terrible for rating gain, because (if you can aim) you kill with far too little damage done.

Slap on some LRM's, throw em downrange early in the match, *then* go kill people. ++rating in every match.

Or do this.

Provided you can get into face-chewing range - which, admittedly, can take some doing these days but I trust misplaced T1s won't have a problem with it - you score easy 800-damage games with multiple kills, while also punishing those low-tier light players who have no idea how to deal with Streaks. It's worked well for me anyways - again, provided the team gives me the slightest chance to get into appropriate range - and since being an awful worthless scrub in low-tier poopgames is all I can express an opinion on anymore, well...may as well share what expertise I have in how to gain maximum benefit from being a talentless loser.

'Sides. You might be able to convince an ultracomp to run Streaks, but convincing them to run LRMs? You know better than that, Winter!

[Felicitatem Parco]

Deathlike, on 01 October 2015 - 10:13 AM, said:

Yes.

Mind you, some people got their Tier 1 through massive volume playing.

The reality is that I'm probably going to be in-between that, and I'm not going to pretend I'm a true Tier 1 either.

When you grind so many mechs and gotten too much GXP to do anything with (converted 0 GXP via MC), there needs some goal other than being a Pokemech collector... that's for sure.

Deathlike, being a Tier1 player can ONLY be accomplished through volume playing. The PSR system s based on accumulated points. You need bulk volme of matches to get those points.

Tier 1 should not be a goal to anyone who values their skill as a player.

[MerryIguana]

Wintersdark, on 01 October 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

A number, a progress bar, makes it easy and fun, a simple goal to work at.

Does it though? Chasing stats is just another grind and for me personally, drains 90% of the fun away. Meta or bust.

[Zultor]

I have no problem with the Tier rating being visible my problem with it is it seems to be how your win/loss ratio ranks compared to other players which to me isn't indicative of how good of a player you are. Players should be rewarded for playing well even if their team loses. That isn't how it works currently.

Edited by Zultor, 01 October 2015 - 10:27 AM.

[Mystere]

Aresye Kerensky, on 01 October 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

I browse these forums every single day (not something I'm particularly proud of), and there's been MAYBE 2-3 separate players that posted some form of Tier based elitism that was 100% serious. Everything else has been sarcastic. Even Alistair's "Valid Opinions" post was meant as a joke, which is what I think you're referring to when you say deleted posts, because his original was deleted along with some quoted replies.

Nope, it was definitely not that thread.

But I will say this, some were apparently uttered in frustration after a back-and-forth with a "lower" tiered person. <and that is as far as I will go>

[Deathlike]

Prosperity Park, on 01 October 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

Deathlike, being a Tier1 player can ONLY be accomplished through volume playing. The PSR system s based on accumulated points. You need bulk volme of matches to get those points.

Tier 1 should not be a goal to anyone who values their skill as a player.

Um, did you not pay attention that your PSR grows faster if you win with a high match score?

It's far easier if you're good. It's a bit longer when you're meddling/mediocre and play within a team that is generally successful.

I honestly don't know how many matches I've played in 2015... but the previous "stats reset" was at least more than a year ago. I get the feeling I've already played less this year than in 2014 (based on the year to date).

Whatever, I guess.

Edited by Deathlike, 01 October 2015 - 10:31 AM.

[Mystere]

Prosperity Park, on 01 October 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

Deathlike, being a Tier1 player can ONLY be accomplished through volume playing. The PSR system s based on accumulated points. You need bulk volme of matches to get those points.

Tier 1 should not be a goal to anyone who values their skill as a player.

What if one was using a joystick or (gasp!) steering wheel?

[Wintersdark]

1453 R, on 01 October 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

Or do this.

Provided you can get into face-chewing range - which, admittedly, can take some doing these days but I trust misplaced T1s won't have a problem with it - you score easy 800-damage games with multiple kills, while also punishing those low-tier light players who have no idea how to deal with Streaks. It's worked well for me anyways - again, provided the team gives me the slightest chance to get into appropriate range - and since being an awful worthless scrub in low-tier poopgames is all I can express an opinion on anymore, well...may as well share what expertise I have in how to gain maximum benefit from being a talentless loser.

'Sides. You might be able to convince an ultracomp to run Streaks, but convincing them to run LRMs? You know better than that, Winter!

lol yeah, I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, just saying how to best make that bar grow.

It's not a skill rating, its a damage done rating. Bad weapons are inherently better at it than good weapons. *shrugs* I just find it amusing that players who are objectively better than me are struggling with it, while I'm finding it extremely fast. I figure if I actually played all weekend, I could cover the entirety of the T3 bar in 2-3 days.

LRM's work well because its basically impossible to not get a decent amount of damage done. It'll probably be useless, but whatever. You just need the damage.

Heh my Warhawk is running 5 MPL, 3ssrm6 and a lrm15. It's a silly build, but extremely effective at softening foes with an absurd amount of damage then chopping them up later.

It's horrible compared to the 4 lpl build I stripped off to do it, but that's not the point

Regardless, you just need to understand that PSR is ridiculous and play the game they appear to want you to play

Zultor, on 01 October 2015 - 10:23 AM, said:

I have no problem with the Tier rating being visible my problem with it is it seems to be how your win/loss ratio ranks compared to other players which to me isn't indicative of how good of a player you are. Players should be rewarded for playing well even if their team loses. That isn't how it works currently.

Well, it does if you accept that match score = playing well (lol); so it rewards playing well in a poor team every bit as well as playing well in a large team.

As I said above, I gain rating in almost every loss.

Edited by Wintersdark, 01 October 2015 - 10:44 AM.

[Aresye]

1453 R, on 01 October 2015 - 10:21 AM, said:

and since being an awful worthless scrub in low-tier poopgames is all I can express an opinion on anymore, well...may as well share what expertise I have in how to gain maximum benefit from being a talentless loser.

No, you're not a talentless user. In fact I respected you and your community involvement until this whole Tier thing turned you into a whiny, self-loathing player with a victim complex. You literally threw in the towel and began this whole tirade because of a single person on one thread. You even admitted so in your "I'm done," post.

Mystere, on 01 October 2015 - 10:24 AM, said:

Nope, it was definitely not that thread.

But I will say this, some were apparently uttered in frustration after a back-and-forth with a "lower" tiered person. <and that is as far as I will go>

So we're just supposed to take your word for it? Who were the players involved? What was the topic about? What was the back and forth about? For someone who's been vehemently against the visible Tiers because of these exact types of situations, I find it pretty odd that you would withhold any actual proof that would support your claim. I mean, if I was against the visible Tier thing, I would have snagged some screenshots of people's replies, saved webpages, and did everything in my power to support my opinion if ever questioned in the way that I am questioning you right now. You're either incredibly incompetent at forum warfare, or you're lying.

[Wintersdark]

MerryIguana, on 01 October 2015 - 10:22 AM, said:

Does it though? Chasing stats is just another grind and for me personally, drains 90% of the fun away. Meta or bust.

Consider that what you find fun is different from what the next guy finds fun. Fun is EXTREMELY subjective.

Also: Meta is a terrible way to rank up. The best way to rank up, as I said above, is exactly the opposite. I've got a Direwolf with LRM's and LBX's, and I've never once failed to gain rating with it.. And I'm in T3, and while I'm competent (thousands of drops) I'm in no way a competitive player.

Meanwhile, I struggle to reliably gain rating in loses when piloting a gauss/laser ebj, and have struggled to gain rating in my YLW or HBK 4G - both mechs because I kill with little damage done.