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Here Is My Black Knight!


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#1 CDLord HHGD

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 04:37 AM

Clicky

And let me tell you why I do not consider this to be Meta.

1) On a chassis where all you have are energy hardpoints, what else you gonna do?
2) HARK! Is that an unused hardpoint?
3) Dual AMS.
4) I considered going XL because I have yet to lose a ST in this thing but STD is better.
5) What's "pulse"?
6) Visually, LL in Right arm are like an energy lance for my knight. Aesthetically pleasing.

Disclaimer: This is a lazy representation. I do plan better distribution of my AMS ammo and different distribution of my armor points.

NOTE: My Black Knight is painted all black, but I am considering buying white to better represent my White Knight reputation. :D

#2 Butane9000

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 04:44 AM

View Postcdlord, on 02 October 2015 - 04:37 AM, said:

Clicky

And let me tell you why I do not consider this to be Meta.

1) On a chassis where all you have are energy hardpoints, what else you gonna do?
2) HARK! Is that an unused hardpoint?
3) Dual AMS.
4) I considered going XL because I have yet to lose a ST in this thing but STD is better.
5) What's "pulse"?
6) Visually, LL in Right arm are like an energy lance for my knight. Aesthetically pleasing.

Disclaimer: This is a lazy representation. I do plan better distribution of my AMS ammo and different distribution of my armor points.

NOTE: My Black Knight is painted all black, but I am considering buying white to better represent my White Knight reputation. :D


I find it humorous because that's an old Awesome build I used to run before PPCs became rapid fire.

#3 El Bandito

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 04:45 AM

I still stand by my build in this thread. :P http://mwomercs.com/...t-to-be-played/

#4 Paigan

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 04:48 AM

First of all: meta does not mean what 90% of you MWO community guys think it does. And it's mentally painful to read it being misused all over the place for someone who understands what it actually means.

Second:

Not bad (not very creative either, actually quite obvious), but some suggestions:
- too much back armor
- maybe reduce armor on the non-weapon arm
- why no BAP? Helps with getting enemy paper doll info, you know
- why no ERLL?
- AMS is hardly worth the weight. However I couldn't say where to spend the weight on, either. IS equipment is so ... bulky.

Edited by Paigan, 02 October 2015 - 04:54 AM.


#5 BigBenn

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 04:49 AM

Nothing wrong with that build. I've used that exact build a few times. I'm still experimenting with my -6, but the dual AMS is sweetness, no doubt.

My current building is 4 LPL, with full mods, near full armor, and no AMS. Speed is 68. Otherwise it is packed with DHS.

Try out the 2 LPL and 5 ML version. Good stuff.

#6 TheCharlatan

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 04:54 AM

Nice build.
Dual AMS was awesome during the last Event (i was going through that AMS ammo in a matter of minutes), but right now i'm not sure they are useful enough to not substitute them with BAP/more DHS.

#7 CDLord HHGD

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 05:00 AM

View PostPaigan, on 02 October 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

First of all: meta does not mean what 90% of you MWO community guys think it does. And it's mentally painful to read it being misused all over the place for someone who understands what it actually means.

View PostAphoticus, on 29 September 2015 - 05:58 AM, said:


I read the entire Wiki page on the word Meta, and it can be construed as a prefix for "Meta-Mech" in this game by people who choose to use it as such; and to point out that it is gaining popularity as an adjective describing such things as its foundations, methods, form and utility.

You can not just stop at the etymology of a word or prefix in this case (or any other), and stop there as the definitive nature of what it means (cultural (historical) bias - not sure here; but there is some form of bias in doing this).

And even then, adjacent is among those beginning meanings; A non-Meta Timber is adjacent to a Meta-Timber, and describes its utility and form, method of use, based on the adjacent foundations as being beyond that of the original.

Creative Writing Major not-withstanding; as that is not a play on words, but directly derived from the meaning of the prefix.

Addendum: I would also like to point out that the original Greek Prefix meaning, "after", or "beyond," can be directly related to a standard (stock) Mech compared to a Meta-Mech; whereby the Meta-Mech came after or is beyond the scope of the original, stock Mech.

And, it is this creative abstract of the original stock Mech, that produces what we now know today as a Meta-Mech as it completes or adds to the nature of the original design. And researching the meaning of Abstract seals the deal for me, for selecting only the aspects which are relevant for a particular purpose, deriving a concept that acts as a super-categorical noun for all subordinate concepts, and connects any related concepts of that category, is precisely what we are doing by ascribing the prefix in the first place.

Without the influence of the human mind, the Meta-Mech would not have been realized, as it is only "we" who can through abstract creativity perceive the Meta of what was originally designed; going beyond the intent, reaching for the "After;" what comes next.

After-thought: this is not to say you are wrong, however, as it is, in itself, an abstract prefix to begin with (i would even venture to say that the originators of the prefix came up with it to try and describe what other words could not), and throughout history, individuals have used their creativity to use the prefix in various ways for lack of better ways to describe or bring meaning to an idea or principle (or to just simplify). If you so choose to ignore the possible uses of the prefix, that is your right, as is the right of others to use it for clarifying what, to them, may be a lack of better words to use to describe such a leap in design of a Mech and its use, form, etc..

"Uber" and Super doesn't quite cut the meaning of these Mechs, as the pilots themselves play a role that cannot be quantified; thus, beyond the idea of the Mech itself.

Meta indeed; I see no other way to describe it, for any other adjective falls short, least a dissertation be written that excludes the simplicity of just saying, "Meta-Mech."

I think the real question to answer, is whether it is a Meta-Mech to you; or in your hands? To me, it is just a re-design, and it is the pilot that brings the Meta (shrug).

Note: on the reference of etymology, the Greek preposition is relative to the old English preposition mid "With" and only later on used to describe higher orders of abstract thoughts; what I find most interesting is this quoted item, "In origin Metaphysics was just the title of one of the principal works of Aristotle; it was so named (by Andronicus of Rhodes) simply because in the customary ordering of the works of Aristotle it was the book following Physics; it thus meant nothing more than "[the book that comes] after [the book entitled] Physics".

This suggests that the original premise being put forth is contradictory to just simply saying that a Meta-Mech came after the Stock Build or any design that is not stock could be a Meta-Mech (in the right hands, of course :wacko: ).

I highly doubt a Midwife was an abstract idea. Or that the origins of the prefix had anything so grand in mind as to say anything more than what came next, or is like (adjacent), that even the Beyond additive to the meaning didn't come until philosophical debates on other areas of thought needed a term to describe the thoughts above the original thoughts.

Per my signature below, take it for what it's worth.


View PostPaigan, on 02 October 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

Second:

Not bad (not very creative either, actually quite obvious), but some suggestions:
- too much back armor
- maybe reduce armor on the non-weapon arm
- why no BAP? Helps with getting enemy paper doll info, you know
- why no ERLL?
- AMS is hardly worth the weight. However I couldn't say where to spend the weight on, either. IS equipment is so ... bulky.

- too much back armor--Read the WHOLE post.
- maybe reduce armor on the non-weapon arm--Like the idea of a shield arm.

- why no BAP? Helps with getting enemy paper doll info, you know.--I have the space, need the tonnage from somewhere.
- why no ERLL?--Too hot on an already hot mech.

- AMS is hardly worth the weight. However I couldn't say where to spend the weight on, either. IS equipment is so ... bulky.--Either this or BAP, haven't decided yet.

#8 Amsro

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 06:06 AM

The faster/better XL Version.


;) :ph34r:

On a side not here is my WhiteKnight.

Posted Image

Edited by Amsro, 02 October 2015 - 06:12 AM.


#9 Revis Volek

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 06:15 AM

View PostPaigan, on 02 October 2015 - 04:48 AM, said:

First of all: meta does not mean what 90% of you MWO community guys think it does. And it's mentally painful to read it being misused all over the place for someone who understands what it actually means.



OH really....

And pray tell, what does it mean? Can you inform us peasants from your cloud of judgement up there?

Please sir...i dont know engrish.

#10 Widowmaker1981

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 06:20 AM

Better version?

Faster
Better hitboxes
Better hardpoint locations
Jumps
5 tons lighter
more armour

BKs are just.. bad. :/

#11 Revis Volek

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 06:27 AM

View PostWidowmaker1981, on 02 October 2015 - 06:20 AM, said:

Better version?

Faster
Better hitboxes
Better hardpoint locations
Jumps
5 tons lighter
more armour

BKs are just.. bad. :/



Better Hitboxes?
5 Tons light is a good thing? Its neither good nor bad IMO its just....something.
and your BadHopper has less armor then his Black Kniggit

I dunno if id go that far....GH are pretty bad dude.

Edited by DarthRevis, 02 October 2015 - 06:32 AM.


#12 Gnume

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 06:31 AM

View PostWidowmaker1981, on 02 October 2015 - 06:20 AM, said:

Better version?

5 tons lighter
more armour

BKs are just.. bad. :/

Why is 5 tons lighter "better" ... and it is actually Less Armor. Your Build shows 416/434 armor and the BK has 462 Max Armor?

Just wish the GH wasn't so ... tall, but yeah, I think I prefer the GH over the BK myself.

#13 Paigan

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 06:32 AM

View PostDarthRevis, on 02 October 2015 - 06:15 AM, said:



OH really....

And pray tell, what does it mean? Can you inform us peasants from your cloud of judgement up there?

Please sir...i dont know engrish.


I already provided a link
Your failure to read it and using arrogant insults instead perfectly shows why you fail to understand the term.

You amused me. Thank you.

#14 Revis Volek

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 06:34 AM

View PostPaigan, on 02 October 2015 - 06:32 AM, said:


I already provided a link
Your failure to read it and using arrogant insults instead perfectly shows why you fail to understand the term.

You amused me. Thank you.



Your tenuous grasp on English and the evolution of language amuses me....

Thank you.

I wanted to hear you EXPLAIN IT in your own words alas I see you cannot. A bright man once said "if you cant explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough."

Nice try tho....A for effort?

Edited by DarthRevis, 02 October 2015 - 06:36 AM.


#15 ThisMachineKillsFascists

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 06:50 AM

He is bak!! fighting the meta tryhards. Oh man, meta t1 tryhards became sooo cheeky after you took a break. Time to payback cd lord. We missed you, our nobel knight

Edited by ThisMachineKillsFascists, 02 October 2015 - 07:02 AM.


#16 Apnu

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 06:55 AM

View Postcdlord, on 02 October 2015 - 04:37 AM, said:

Clicky

And let me tell you why I do not consider this to be Meta.

1) On a chassis where all you have are energy hardpoints, what else you gonna do?
2) HARK! Is that an unused hardpoint?
3) Dual AMS.
4) I considered going XL because I have yet to lose a ST in this thing but STD is better.
5) What's "pulse"?
6) Visually, LL in Right arm are like an energy lance for my knight. Aesthetically pleasing.

Disclaimer: This is a lazy representation. I do plan better distribution of my AMS ammo and different distribution of my armor points.

NOTE: My Black Knight is painted all black, but I am considering buying white to better represent my White Knight reputation. :D


While I run mine pulse, but basically the same thing as you've got. I respect the ML and LL. However with the CT firemagnet target I like more armor there on mine and the mech is very XL friendly so why not jump up to XL360 and have "goes faster" legs?

Here is a build for that, and I added BAP because why not? There's so much ECM these days, its great to get into an endurance brawl and drop that Loki or DDC's ECM, and invite the LRM spam.

#17 Apnu

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 06:58 AM

View PostAmsro, on 02 October 2015 - 06:06 AM, said:

On a side not here is my WhiteKnight.

Posted Image


I run that build on mine, its balls nasty.

Posted Image

#18 Ultimax

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 07:01 AM

View Postcdlord, on 02 October 2015 - 05:00 AM, said:

- maybe reduce armor on the non-weapon arm--Like the idea of a shield arm.


Nothing wrong with a shield arm.


But I would recommend splitting the armor shaving between the shield arm (something you are willing to sacrifice) and the amount you shaved from the legs (something that is worse than losing the arm).


Do people in normal solo pug matches leg 75 ton heavy mechs?

No, not frequently.


But arty is tossed around alot, and jumping from heights at full speed happens frequently - so I personally don't like to shave more than a few points off of (4 to 6) legs - if I have something that is functionally ablative (shield arm with no weapons).

Edited by Ultimatum X, 02 October 2015 - 07:01 AM.


#19 Amsro

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 07:05 AM

View PostUltimatum X, on 02 October 2015 - 07:01 AM, said:


Nothing wrong with a shield arm.


But I would recommend splitting the armor shaving between the shield arm (something you are willing to sacrifice) and the amount you shaved from the legs (something that is worse than losing the arm).


Do people in normal solo pug matches leg 75 ton heavy mechs?

No, not frequently.


But arty is tossed around alot, and jumping from heights at full speed happens frequently - so I personally don't like to shave more than a few points off of (4 to 6) legs - if I have something that is functionally ablative (shield arm with no weapons).


Agreed, I typically shave the armor off the legs if I'm looking for a half ton for that last JJ/DHS/Ammo.

#20 FlipOver

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Posted 02 October 2015 - 07:15 AM

I don't have any Black Knights, but if I did, I would build one like this.

Why?
Most sensible usage for an energy boat.
Nice heat dissipation for the amount of hardpoints.
Nice overall tonnage and speed.
Nice armor and nice STD engine.

All in all, I guess we can say I'd build a nice mech...





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