58 replies to this topic

[Gattsus]

I believe that the lbx is like the ugly son of the ballistic family, mainly due being not pin-point damage. In this regard, I've been thinking, why not buff it a bit, maybe:

reduce the spread 10-15% (to ENF-5D quirk levels)
reduce the cooldown to 2.0-2.25s
increase the speed by ~100m/s

ATM is like, meh, a bit cooler and lighter than the AC-10, and I remember that according to someone it should rek face in a brawl.

what do you think? or is it alright where it is?

Edited by Gattsus, 28 March 2017 - 07:19 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Your values are essentially what I had in mind, too.

I don't think 5 DPS from an 11 ton, spread-damage weapon is objectionable at all.

[Glaive-]

Obviously PGI misinterpreted the name of the weapon. It clearly should deal 10 damage per pellet.


But in all seriousness, more spread reduction would be great. IMO it really should get a straight damage increase against internal structure, as relying on crits for the damage boos is inconsistent and hardly even works most of the time.

[GrimRiver]

You can negate the need for cooldown and spread reduction of the LBX family by giving them airburst type of function.

In case you don't know what airburst is, it's when a round travels as a slug up to a certain range then explodes into a shotgun like effect before impact on target.

LBX round will travel up to 400m in a very tight cluster, past that range it will being to spread like shotgun pellets.

This is the most proposed idea I've seen for it.

[El Bandito]

Just increase each pellet damage of all LBX cannons to 1.5. Make it a BAMF shotgun.

GrimRiver, on 28 March 2017 - 07:54 PM, said:

You can negate the need for cooldown and spread reduction of the LBX family by giving them airburst type of function.

In case you don't know what airburst is, it's when a round travels as a slug up to a certain range then explodes into a shotgun like effect before impact on target.

LBX round will travel up to 400m in a very tight cluster, past that range it will being to spread like shotgun pellets.

This is the most proposed idea I've seen for it.

It is a popular idea, but I do not have confidence that PGI can code it. Flat damage increase proposal is far simpler.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 March 2017 - 09:20 PM.

[Y E O N N E]

Even more than that, I don't want airburst. I want it to be a shotgun.

[Khobai]

well the new tech is adding weapons that have variable damage based on range

heavy gauss, snubnose ppc, atms, etc...

so why not apply that to the LBX? make it do more damage up close and have the damage drop off at longer range

then it would be like a shotgun

LBX could start out at 2 damage per pellet at point blank range and the damage could decrease linearly with range so at its optimum range it would do 1 damage per pellet. And then beyond its optimum range youd have the normal damage dropoff upto its maximum range.

2 damage might be a bit too much but it could be adjusted to anything... 1.5 or whatever. its just to illustrate the point of how to make it into more of an anti-mech shotgun.

Edited by Khobai, 28 March 2017 - 08:16 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

Don't speak too loud or they will change it out and make it a 4 shot stream >.< jks jks

With the addition of the LB20x nothing is ever going to match up to its shotgun-ness, because it makes the best example, the reason you would take a an lb10 is if you are combining it with another lb10, to get the effect of a 20 but the range, CD and heat management of a 10, or if you were struggling for weight.

Boosting the damage on one of the lbx models would be a weird choice, and make the other lbx variants feel very unloved.

Or am I missing something?

Edited by Shifty McSwift, 28 March 2017 - 08:51 PM.

[El Bandito]

Shifty McSwift, on 28 March 2017 - 08:50 PM, said:

Don't speak too loud or they will change it out and make it a 4 shot stream >.< jks jks

With the addition of the LB20x nothing is ever going to match up to its shotgun-ness, because it makes the best example, the reason you would take a an lb10 is if you are combining it with another lb10, to get the effect of a 20 but the range, CD and heat management of a 10, or if you were struggling for weight.

Boosting the damage on one of the lbx models would be a weird choice, and make the other lbx variants feel very unloved.

Or am I missing something?

We are proposing damage increase to all LBX models. IS will probably have more damage due to its bigger weight/slot requirements--just like SRMs.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 March 2017 - 09:22 PM.

[Mcgral18]

El Bandito, on 28 March 2017 - 09:21 PM, said:

We are proposing damage increase to all LBX models. IS will probably have more damage due to its bigger weight/slot requirements--just like SRMs.

The isLB20x would need at least 30 damage to consider taking
LB20x=STD engine
UAC20=LFE


Let's take a moment to decide:
Gauss Rifle

[The6thMessenger]

Mcgral18, on 28 March 2017 - 09:34 PM, said:

The isLB20x would need at least 30 damage to consider taking
LB20x=STD engine
UAC20=LFE


Let's take a moment to decide:
Gauss Rifle

Isn't that over the top? maybe 24 - 26 dmg would be ok.

[Mcgral18]

The6thMessenger, on 28 March 2017 - 09:37 PM, said:

Isn't that over the top? maybe 24 - 26 dmg would be ok.

No

It's spread damage from an 11 Crit weapon



It would also need 50 HP (...so could the isAC20)

[Xetelian]

I support this.

One of my favorite mechs is the quirked CN9 D, did 908 damage with it last time I took it out. I have 6 1/2 tons of ammo and still run dry. With cool-down module its 50% cool-down.

[Shifty McSwift]

You guys are making me queasy thinking about how amazingly strong srm + lbx brawlers would be with a buff like this, they already hurt so damn much. >.<

I would back a buff to the pellet damage if the CDs were also increased.

And just remember while the LBX does spread, it takes a while, at certain ranges, with the LB10 in particular, it is basically pinpoint damage.

[El Bandito]

The6thMessenger, on 28 March 2017 - 09:37 PM, said:

Isn't that over the top? maybe 24 - 26 dmg would be ok.

270 meter weapon that can't be mounted on arms and only on Std engine? It should get 40 damage.

Shifty McSwift, on 28 March 2017 - 09:55 PM, said:

You guys are making me queasy thinking about how amazingly strong srm + lbx brawlers would be with a buff like this, they already hurt so damn much. >.<

I would back a buff to the pellet damage if the CDs were also increased.

And just remember while the LBX does spread, it takes a while, at certain ranges, with the LB10 in particular, it is basically pinpoint damage.

SRM+LBX brawlers can only do decent damage sub 270 meters--and even then the damage spread is too great until they get to 100 meter distance. If you are using LB10X for the PP damage within 150 meter range, then that's a waste of 11 tons.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 March 2017 - 09:57 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

El Bandito, on 28 March 2017 - 09:55 PM, said:

SRM+LBX brawlers can only do decent damage sub 270 meters--and even then the damage spread is too great until they get to 100 meter distance. If you are using LB10X for the PP damage within 150 meter range, then that's a waste of 11 tons.

Lets call it a flat 300 as people boating srms tend to have the range buff, LB10x at 300 meters isn't too far from pinpoint unless they changed they spread since I was using it last, you get the wide spread at ranges over 400 or so, which when combined with SRMs gives you dominance at under 300 and poke-ability at 400-700 or whatever that lb max range is. I don't see issue with that.

If like some are saying here, it was changed so LBX had even more of a shotgun feel, possibly dealing more damage at closer range or messing with the drop off rates etc, then you are further stemming a srm lbx combo's range abilities, rather than enhancing it overall. That would just be a straight buff to under 300m srm lbx brawlers and the under 300m playstyle.

[El Bandito]

Shifty McSwift, on 28 March 2017 - 10:05 PM, said:

Lets call it a flat 300 as people boating srms tend to have the range buff, LB10x at 300 meters isn't too far from pinpoint unless they changed they spread since I was using it last, you get the wide spread at ranges over 400 or so, which when combined with SRMs gives you dominance at under 300 and poke-ability at 400-700 or whatever that lb max range is. I don't see issue with that.

If like some are saying here, it was changed so LBX had even more of a shotgun feel, possibly dealing more damage at closer range or messing with the drop off rates etc, then you are further stemming a srm lbx combo's range abilities, rather than enhancing it overall. That would just be a straight buff to under 300m srm lbx brawlers and the under 300m playstyle.

And I see nothing wrong with buffing such playstyle. Short ranged combat is fun, but too little used currently. Also, at 300 meters, your SRMs will have terrible spread, thus not doing much effective damage.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 March 2017 - 10:10 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

El Bandito, on 28 March 2017 - 10:09 PM, said:

And I see nothing wrong with buffing such playstyle. Short ranged combat is fun, but too little used currently. Also, at 300 meters, your SRMs will have terrible spread, thus not doing much effective damage.

To me, reducing the overall effective range of the combo lb srm build is nerfing the build in ways, if a player wants to run the under 300 brawler style, boating srms is one way to go about it, Lbxs have about the same effect for less damage at longer range, and just increase the build styles flexibility in any fight.

I could also argue that taking an under 300 srm boat is as risky as taking an lrm boat and should probably only be done in certain circumstances anyway.

Besides we havent seen what an LBX and rocket launcher combo build would look like yet, that might be sexy af for the lb10.

[El Bandito]

Shifty McSwift, on 28 March 2017 - 10:16 PM, said:

To me, reducing the overall effective range of the combo lb srm build is nerfing the build in ways, if a player wants to run the under 300 brawler style, boating srms is one way to go about it, Lbxs have about the same effect for less damage at longer range, and just increase the build styles flexibility in any fight.

I could also argue that taking an under 300 srm boat is as risky as taking an lrm boat and should probably only be done in certain circumstances anyway.

Besides we havent seen what an LBX and rocket launcher combo build would look like yet, that might be sexy af for the lb10.

If you see the build as situational, then stop worrying about its potential. And buffing LBX's performance at range doesn't make it competitive in the first place because UACs and Gauss (and RACs most likely) are already superior to it. One reason I want flat damage increase is its ease of implementation. PGI is notorious for goofing up on coding.

Edited by El Bandito, 28 March 2017 - 10:28 PM.

[Shifty McSwift]

El Bandito, on 28 March 2017 - 10:24 PM, said:

If you see the build as situational, then stop worrying about its potential. And buffing LBX's performance at range doesn't make it competitive in the first place because UACs and Gauss are already superior to it.

How can a 300m or less build not be called situational? Don't want to get into an argument, but it seems to meet the definitions.

But to just boost the lbx damage seems very dangerous when you consider power creep is a real thing and damage rates are going into silly regions already.

I would be for a pellet damage increase, if at the same time it received a cooldown and or spread increase. But by that same measure similar results could be achieved by simply making the lb variants weigh less and take up less space.