84 replies to this topic

[Scout Derek]

With the arrival of the Warhammer and Marauder, which Unseen of these two do you think or want next?

The Rifleman, a smaller but more energy based Chassis of the Jagermech?

Or the Archer, a heavier Inner Sphere Version that is Similar to the Mad-Dog(Vulture)?


I'm up for the Archer, The Inner Sphere needs a heavier Missile mech that can take damage and be versatile unlike the Catapult in many cases.

[Darwins Dog]

I've always liked the Rifleman in TT, so I'd rather see that one. Jagers just don't scratch the itch for me.

[Bishop Steiner]

Scout Derek, on 05 October 2015 - 08:39 AM, said:

With the arrival of the Warhammer and Marauder, which Unseen of these two do you think or want next?

The Rifleman, a smaller but more energy based Chassis of the Jagermech?

Or the Archer, a heavier Inner Sphere Version that is Similar to the Mad-Dog(Vulture)?


I'm up for the Archer, The Inner Sphere needs a heavier Missile mech that can take damage and be versatile unlike the Catapult in many cases.

Phoenix Hawk.

Bishop Steiner, on 04 October 2015 - 02:19 PM, said:

that I would much rather see this:
http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Phoenix_Hawk

Gimme a:
PXH-1
97 kph, 6 JJ, 1 Large Laser(RA), 2 Medium Lasers (RA/LA), 2 MG (RA/LA)
Proposed Hardpoints:
-RA: 2 Energy, 2 Ballistics
-LA: 1 Energy, 2 Ballistics


PXH-1b "Special"
97 kph, 6 JJ, 1 ERPPC (RA), 1 ER Large Laser (RT) 2 Medium Lasers (RA/LA), 2 MG (RA/LA) 1 Guardian ECM (CT)
Proposed Hardpoints:
-RA: 2 Energy, 1 Ballistics
-LA: 1 Energy, 1 Ballistics
-RT: 1 Energy
-LT: ECM (moved for MWO rules)

and PXH-3S
97 kph, 6 JJ, 1 Large Pulse Laser(RA), 2 Medium Lasers (RA/LA), 2 MG (LA), AMS (RA), MASC (CT)
Proposed Hardpoints:
-RA: 3 Energy, 1 AMS
-LA: 2 Energy, 2 Ballistics

And the Hero could be Paul Master's ride.
PXH-3M Masters
97 kph, 6 JJ, 1 ER Large Laser(RA), 2 Medium Pulse Lasers (RA/LA), 1 MG (LA), 2 SRM4 (LA, thanks strum) 1 AMS (RA)
Proposed Hardpoints:
-RA: 2 Energy,
-LA: 1 Energy, 1 Ballistics, 2 Missile


Just my 2 ct

Heavy Mechs are boring, and driven by BADs.
We have the Archer, it's called a Catapult, and looks cooler and has JJs, too.
We have a Rifleman, it's called Firebrand, and at 5 tons heavier is better.

So.

Only obvious answer is: Phoenix Hawk.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 October 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

...
We have the Archer, it's called a Catapult, and looks cooler and has JJs, too.
...

Archer would probably have better hitboxes than the Caterpult, though, along with a bit more weight to help squeeze in more gear.

[Dawnstealer]

Phoenix Hawk or Archer for me. Archer seems like it would be a more useful, heavier Catapult with articulating, arm-mounted weapons.

Really, mechs I want to see are the Hatchetman, Assassin, and maybe the Thug, but of the Unseen? Yeah: Phoenix Hawk or Archer.

Rifleman, as iconic as it is, is just a lighter Jag.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 05 October 2015 - 08:59 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 05 October 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

Archer would probably have better hitboxes than the Caterpult, though, along with a bit more weight to help squeeze in more gear.

actually, it probably wont.

All depictions of the Archer have Dragon like CTs, a cockpit square in center of mass, large, exposed STs and skinny upper arms that don't protect the STs at all. Without changing it to the point of no longer being an Archer, it will almost certainly have terrible hitboxes.







even the reseen is bad

so I don't see it.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 05 October 2015 - 09:02 AM.

[Zookeeper Dan]

I'd like the Archer.

But I'd prefer the Crusader, Stinger, Wasp, or Phoenix Hawk next.

Edited by Danth Reduviid, 05 October 2015 - 09:01 AM.

[0bsidion]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 October 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

Phoenix Hawk.


Heavy Mechs are boring, and driven by BADs.
We have the Archer, it's called a Catapult, and looks cooler and has JJs, too.
We have a Rifleman, it's called Firebrand, and at 5 tons heavier is better.

So.

Only obvious answer is: Phoenix Hawk.

^^ This. And Stinger and/or Wasp, mostly for nostalgia, not that we really need them. And LAM versions, because strafing the battlefield would be hilarious, and a way to introduce Aerotech.

[FupDup]

Bishop Steiner, on 05 October 2015 - 08:59 AM, said:

actually, it probably wont.

All depictions of the Archer have Dragon like CTs, a cockpit square in center of mass, large, exposed STs and skinny upper arms that don't protect the STs at all. Without changing it to the point of no longer being an Archer, it will almost certainly have terrible hitboxes.

The biggest difference is having arms that can intercept at least some of the fire going for its torso area, while the Cat's arms are higher than the torsos.

For the torsos themselves, I could easily imagine the ST hitboxes extending along most or all of the side of the "nose," which means it might not be a walking CT like the Cat is.

[Bishop Steiner]

FupDup, on 05 October 2015 - 09:02 AM, said:

The biggest difference is having arms that can intercept at least some of the fire going for its torso area, while the Cat's arms are higher than the torsos.

For the torsos themselves, I could easily imagine the ST hitboxes extending along most or all of the side of the "nose," which means it might not be a walking CT like the Cat is.

instead it will be an XL death trap, meaning, completing DoA compared to the firepower it's facing. And those arms will scarcely catch any incoming fire, while it's frontal profile will be bad. It will also be comparatively easy to headshot.

[VirtualSmitty]

The Archer please.

[El Bandito]

Archer, without a doubt.

The ARC-5S will have FIVE missiles slots on top of FOUR energy slots. No Catapult has that many hardpoints. Indeed, not even the Orion-VA.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 October 2015 - 09:21 AM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

This guy.

[Scout Derek]

Titannium, on 05 October 2015 - 09:12 AM, said:

This guy.

It'll come (I want it too)

But c'mon, tell me which one you want as per title says:

Rifleman, Or archer?

Bishop Steiner, on 05 October 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

Phoenix Hawk.


Heavy Mechs are boring, and driven by BADs.
We have the Archer, it's called a Catapult, and looks cooler and has JJs, too.
We have a Rifleman, it's called Firebrand, and at 5 tons heavier is better.

So.

Only obvious answer is: Phoenix Hawk.

C'mon, Phoenix Hawk is in it's own league, I'm asking about the Archer and the Rifleman.

Does Firebrand have Multiple variants with energy hardpoints in the arms? No.

Does Catapult have arm actutators so it's arms can move left and right, and is 70 tons? Nope.

So Mr. Steiner, answer the question, Archer, or Rifleman?

[CDLord HHGD]

I can make an acceptable Rifleman out of the Jager. I want the Archer first (then the Rifleman and other unseens).

[Bishop Steiner]

Scout Derek, on 05 October 2015 - 09:16 AM, said:

It'll come (I want it too)

But c'mon, tell me which one you want as per title says:

Rifleman, Or archer?


C'mon, Phoenix Hawk is in it's own league, I'm asking about the Archer and the Rifleman.

Does Firebrand have Multiple variants with energy hardpoints in the arms? No.

Does Catapult have arm actutators so it's arms can move left and right, and is 70 tons? Nope.

So Mr. Steiner, answer the question, Archer, or Rifleman?

Neither.

We are getting two heavy unseen back to back. Other weights need love.

But, if this were a court of law and I HAD to answer

Bishop Steiner, on 05 October 2015 - 06:19 AM, said:

Likely you will have a "redundant" version, and so it will come down to one version getting missiles hardpoint inflation, and one getting laser hardpoint inflation. Since they all are pretty much variations of the same theme. I'm thinking the 2R ends up with 2x E Hardpoint per arm, for a total of 6.

The real question would be, will they gimp it, with all it's other lackluster facets to 8 Hardpoints total, and give it 2 LRM, or will it at least be one of the hardpoint heavier mechs and maybe get 10? I'd say considering how uninspiring it is, give it 10, as with some variant you need 9ish, anyhow. And 10 allows symmetry. But I think all 3 could get away with 9, if needed.
so:

ARC-2R:
-CT: 2 E
-RT: 2 M
-LT: 2 M
-RA: 2 E
-LA: 2E
It would keep the general basic and boring profile the Archer is famous for. And give it some possible life by being able to lightly laservomit.

ARC-5W
-CT: 1 (or 2, for fun) M
-RT: 3M
-LT: 3M
-RA: 1M
-LA: 1M
Which could make it a nasty "wave fire" mech in the underhive. I'd probably run it with 3xLRM5 per ST, and SRM4s in the arms. CT I would have to flip a coin between LRM or SRM.

so, for the 3rd, either PGI makes up a variant, which at first blush seems silly, given the number of available models, but not as silly when you consider the homogenous nature of the hardpoints, or we see shades of the King Crab and Black Knight and it's a matter of musical Energy/Missile slots.

I'd say, go with the ARC-5S.
-CT: 2 E
-RT: 2 M
-LT: 2M
-RA: 1E, 1 M
-LA: 1E, 1M

Doing so, would allow for relatively distinct weapon weights, the 2R more energy biased, the 5S more missile biased and the 5W well, yeah.

The Archer is famed as the vanilla, plodding workhorse of the Inner Sphere. Is it really a shock that the hardpoints would be so meh?

That said, that 5W might be FUN, IMO.

Also, in thoughts of quirks:
The Archer really is not noted for it's sensors, targeting gear, etc. It's noted for it's reliability, numbers in action, and it's stolid, workmanlike nature. I would say on the 2R and 5S, almost everything should be Armor and Structure quirks. Would fit their reputation for reliability. If we want to change it up, maybe give the the 5W less Armor and Structure, and give it a boost to Sensor Range and lock times, which befits it's 1) being built by people with access to better tech than the rest of the IS, and 2) It is commonly used as a command mech within the Dragoons (according to Wolves on the Border), though I don't recall the TO&E really reflecting that. It is bloody common , though.

That's my take.

Thoughts?

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 05 October 2015 - 09:20 AM.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I'm a big fan of the Archer. The Rifleman is just an inferior Jagermech.

[Mister Blastman]

The Rifleman.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

to topic, rifleman.

[Tyler Valentine]

Regarding the OPs choice of 'mechs, I think the Rifleman is better looking and more interesting than the Archer... but at the end of the day, give me a Phoenix Hawk please!