178 replies to this topic

[Fate 6]

They need about 50% less spread. Damage increase isn't needed. You can miss an Atlas that isn't moving with how bad our current spread is. Bring back the Artemis helix spread pattern so we cam pinpoint things at 100m and 180m

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Khobai, on 06 October 2015 - 07:02 PM, said:

so if the heat cap was halved from 60 to like 30 like these "lower the heat cap" nutters keep proposing.... youd still be able to fire dual gauss and at least x3-x4 CERMLs without overheating. Which is still a 50-60 point alpha.

1) 50-60 is still less than 70+

2) Oh sure you could alpha with those lasers added in.... ONCE. Then you'd be limited to that 30 point gauss spam until you cooled virtually all the way back down.

Compare that to the 70+ alpha 3 or 4 times...waiting 15 seconds and repeating....

Oh look.... time to kill skyrockets.

Fate 6, on 07 October 2015 - 05:08 AM, said:

They need about 50% less spread. Damage increase isn't needed. You can miss an Atlas that isn't moving with how bad our current spread is. Bring back the Artemis helix spread pattern so we cam pinpoint things at 100m and 180m

This is so true...

It should be possible to land every single missle on a light mech if you aim.

Missles are the only weapon system where you can only do 60% of the weapons damage even after a perfectly timed shot.

[Lugh]

Mcgral18, on 05 October 2015 - 02:01 PM, said:

Because 3 is where they were supposed to start at.

Not 4. 2.5 would be a acceptable solution, with other supporting buffs.

You missed that part where the dumb fire missile was a Kurita only experimental tech didn't you?

[Mcgral18]

Lugh, on 07 October 2015 - 05:14 AM, said:

You missed that part where the dumb fire missile was a Kurita only experimental tech didn't you?

They're an ammo type available to all SRM launchers. Developed by the Kuritans.

[mogs01gt]

Sader325, on 05 October 2015 - 01:39 PM, said:

I love SRMS.
This is unnecessary.
Why?
http://www.twitch.tv/sader325
*EDIT*
Odd, match video ****** up.
Oh well 5 kill 450 damage game with a SRM maddog on river city in response to this post.
Next game
4 kills 500 damage.
SRMS are fine, up your game.
*EDIT*
Yay stream fixed.

A tier2 telling a tier1 to step up there game....Last time I checked, there isnt a tier 0.

SRMs suck and they have for 2 years now!

[Tesunie]

stjobe, on 07 October 2015 - 04:51 AM, said:

Here's a pair of questions for you (they're really for Paul but I'm sure he doesn't care, and hasn't cared for a few years now):
1. What does the 'M' in 'SRM' stand for?
2. What is the difference, if any, between a missile¹ and a rocket²?

I'll forego my usual spiel about what MWO's missile system could be, and just note that what we have are some bastardized versions of MRMs, not SRMs.

¹ "a missile is a self-propelled precision-guided munition system" - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Missile
² "A rocket is a self-propelled, unguided weapon system powered by a rocket motor." - https://en.wikipedia.../Rocket_(weapon)

Technically...

Our missiles do have some "guidance". Our targeting computers "converge" the SRMs onto target before launching...
(Yes. I'm partly joking here.)

The question would be, how would they be guided? Certainly not like SSRMs with a lock on and such. And they should probably travel faster, which would make any "follow the reticle" (which I can see some possible abuse/bugs) mechanic I've heard other people talk about be very hard to use.

I think SRMs could use less spread (but not by much, probably a universal spread to make SRM6s be better than SRM4s and 2s that shoot faster) and higher travel speeds. (Then again, I think the same way with LRMs.)

[Nori Silverrage]

I don't think it is needed.
What would be very helpful would be reduced spread and increased velocity.

[Sader325]

mogs01gt, on 07 October 2015 - 07:27 AM, said:

A tier2 telling a tier1 to step up there game....Last time I checked, there isnt a tier 0.

SRMs suck and they have for 2 years now!

Tier is a function of time and games played not skill.

You get a positive W/L and play enough matches and you get T1.

[Robot Kenshiro]

Think tier lvl should factor in anything. If your good your good regardless of tier. If you suck like me then yea... I up my game every time I get smashed. Sometimes you get smashed even more but in the end you sometimes come up on top.
As for the srms. I find they work 50/50. But I love em regardless.

[Lightfoot]

SRMs work great for me. 3xASRM6 deal 36 damage, at 200 meters most of it hits where you aimed. Low weight, low heat. Most skilled players lock targets so they know you are carrying SRMs and will range you. That places the burden of getting to SRM range on the player where SRMs are devastating to most mechs.

[mogs01gt]

Sader325, on 07 October 2015 - 07:50 AM, said:

Tier is a function of time and games played not skill.
You get a positive W/L and play enough matches and you get T1.

No its not. You cant consistently be a bad player or a mediocre player and move up to tier1. Let alone a bad player sustaining tier1.

Edited by mogs01gt, 07 October 2015 - 09:05 AM.

[Tesunie]

mogs01gt, on 07 October 2015 - 09:03 AM, said:

No its not. You cant consistently be a bad player or a mediocre player and move up to tier1. Let alone a bad player sustaining tier1.

If your team wins...

I know of some very good players, better than I am, who are tier 5. They can't seem to win despite doing lots of damage and getting decent match scores. So, their PSR remains level.

Meanwhile, I keep raising in PSR because I seem to be placed on teams that are winning, and I'm now Tier 3.


PSR is nothing more than Elo reskinned with a few different alternative ways to alter the results, such as doing amazingly well on a loss to increase PSR a little bit, or doing really badly on a win and remaining unchanged.

Overall, PSR doesn't rank Player skill, it ranks "team skill" with random teams. If Player skill was to truly be represented, than win lose should be removed from the equation.


However, I do believe that tier's and PSR are beyond the scope of this thread's topic.

[RoboPatton]

Gotta love how PSR can derail a thread about missiles.........

It can derail any thread.

PSR OP!

[pwnface]

Mcgral18, on 06 October 2015 - 02:06 PM, said:

You forget, those SplatCat which had up to 90 damage PER SRM6 LAUNCHER


People always forget that titbit.
isSRMs would get the damage buff.
cSRMs would not, but get other supporting buffs, because SRMs as a weapon system are piss poor.

I liked this because titbit.

[RoboPatton]

pwnface, on 07 October 2015 - 09:59 AM, said:

I liked this because titbit.

I liked you for finding titbit.

Oh yeah, and SRMs and stuff. See, I'm on topic.

[Homeskilit]

I do not understand how the SRM 4 tubes on my Panther are in a square shape but the missiles fly in a horizontal line pattern.

Edited by Homeskilit, 07 October 2015 - 10:40 AM.

[pwnface]

I think SRM damage and spread can both be buffed. Up damage to 2.5 per SRM and reduce the SRM spread by like 30% across the board. I don't think SRM velocity needs a buff. If you aren't hitting with your SRMs, you should get CLOSER. SRMs should be in your face OUCH damage. If you are able to get within 200m of an enemy mech, a dedicated SRM boat should have a distinct advantage over long/mid-range laser vomit. An Atlas running 3-4xSRM6 + AC20 should dominate a vomit/gauss Dire Wolf at close range, not barely win if you have excellent torso twisting.

DWF with 2xGauss 2xLPL 4xCERML = 84 pinpoint damage
vs
AS7-S with 4xSRM6 + AC20 = 80 spread damage with proposed changes.

AS7-S would have a huge advantage in cooling though and dominate at close range with a similarly devastating punch.

I also think the spread on SRM2s need to be near non-existent. It really bothers me that if you run 5xSRM2 it spreads all over the place like an SRM6 rather than having a really tight 10 SRM punch within the normal cone of an SRM2. SRM2s are largely useless as is.


edit: Also, if you are literally touching the other mech SRM spread shouldn't exist. Hitting the CT of an enemy mech at 1m away should result in 100% of your missiles to hit CT.

Edited by pwnface, 07 October 2015 - 10:50 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

pwnface, on 07 October 2015 - 10:44 AM, said:

I think SRM damage and spread can both be buffed. Up damage to 2.5 per SRM and reduce the SRM spread by like 30% across the board. I don't think SRM velocity needs a buff. If you aren't hitting with your SRMs, you should get CLOSER. SRMs should be in your face OUCH damage. If you are able to get within 200m of an enemy mech, a dedicated SRM boat should have a distinct advantage over long/mid-range laser vomit. An Atlas running 3-4xSRM6 + AC20 should dominate a vomit/gauss Dire Wolf at close range, not barely win if you have excellent torso twisting.

I also think the spread on SRM2s need to be near non-existent. It really bothers me that if you run 5xSRM2 it spreads all over the place like an SRM6 rather than having a really tight 10 SRM punch within the normal cone of an SRM2. SRM2s are largely useless as is.

What a well thought out analysis. Thumbs up

[pwnface]

Gas Guzzler, on 07 October 2015 - 10:46 AM, said:

What a well thought out analysis. Thumbs up

Thanks Gas!

[Reno Blade]

I think the SRM are working pretty well, but the other weapons are working too good, especially if boated.

I'd reduce SRM heat, but otherwise I'd change the other weapons as I posted here:

http://mwomercs.com/...54#entry4718854

Reno Blade, on 24 September 2015 - 09:16 AM, said:

Imho there are "small" changes to be made here for weapon balance:
1. Increase beam duration on all lasers to 1.5 - 2 second (including pulse lasers to 1.2 to 1.7 or so)
Remember the outcry of Clan beam times, when the ERLL had 2 seconds or so?
This would also increase the difficulty of light mechs spamming MLaser or SPulse (such as firestarters) and bring them "down" to the difficulties their "prey" have shooting back.

2. couple all lasers into a shared Ghost Heat group
Limit of 2 Large or 4 Med, or 1 Large + 2 Med.
No more 2 - 3 Large + 3 - 6 Med laser alphas = boating gone.

3. couple PPC and all Ballistics to a shared Ghost heat Group
Limit of 1 PPC or one Gauss, or one AC10 or 2 AC5. (any higher group number will be penalized by GH)
Prevents PPC + Gauss and PPC + AC5/10 Alphas and AC boating (not just dual AC20 or quad PPC boats)
And possibly increase Gauss Heat from 1 to 4+

This way we get certain disadvantages of boats:
- Laserboats can't alpha as much with the heat penalties
- Laserboats will have lot of face time - even more if spacing groups to prevent GH (see 6LLaser Stalkers)
- FLPPD (PPC/Ballistic) can't alpha as much with the heat penalties = reduce the FLPPD alpha size and dps
- strong FLPPD will have more facetime by spacing the shots to prevent GH

- SRM builds will be very strong short range with big alphas (3+ SRM6), but still have very short range
- LRM builds still have all the sensor problems and AMS to struggle with

Then we will see way longer TTK, have builds with more than boating one weapon type.
Classic builds like Warhammer and Marauder (everyones loved ones) will be equal to boats.