83 replies to this topic

[Novakaine]

Over half the enemy team with ecm mechs.
Thanks PGI I don't what I'd do without my daily dose of frustration.
I'm gonna urge the UN to declare Thursdays to be called ECM Thursday.
Not this one match but every match I played.
Rocketeers just can't get a break.
Thanks once again

[Golden Vulf]

You could probably drop the Artemis. It only works if you have direct line of sight, and I'm guessing that you were the last one killed because you were in the back waiting for target locks?

Also, you can bring your own Clan Active Probe, lulz.

[Troutmonkey]

BAP + TAG.
Or better yet don't bring LRMs

[Revis Volek]

Golden Vulf, on 08 October 2015 - 09:53 PM, said:

You could probably drop the Artemis. It only works if you have direct line of sight, and I'm guessing that you were the last one killed because you were in the back waiting for target locks?

Also, you can bring your own Clan Active Probe, lulz.

The reason for Artemis is to make the cluster tighter im sure....

I have never heard that Artemis only work when you have LOS...you sure about that?

BAP isnt as much importance as TAG but both are best. LRM mechs dont want to get close anyway, TAG for faster locks, better tracking and breaking dat ECM.

Edited by DarthRevis, 08 October 2015 - 10:13 PM.

[MoonUnitBeta]

Golden Vulf, on 08 October 2015 - 09:53 PM, said:

You could probably drop the Artemis. It only works if you have direct line of sight, and I'm guessing that you were the last one killed because you were in the back waiting for target locks?

Also, you can bring your own Clan Active Probe, lulz.

That ebon jag isn't Novakaine..
Novakaine is the one spectating him.

Edited by MoonUnitBeta, 08 October 2015 - 10:14 PM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Novakaine, i can asure you, in T5 every second/third match im in a team with 0 ECM (read ZERO).

Its nothing better, to get LRMed whole team in around 2 minutes. Best expirince eva.

[STEF_]

Golden Vulf, on 08 October 2015 - 09:53 PM, said:

Also, you can bring your own Clan Active Probe, lulz.

The funny thing about who suggest "take a bap", is that they seem to ignore bap range while the weapon is called LONG range missile.

[Golden Vulf]

Active Probe extends your sensor range up to 1000m which happens to be the maximum range for LRMs. The real benefit is cancelling ECM on nearby mechs, so you can provide target locks to friends so everyone on your team with LRMs can kill those pesky light flankers.

I can type in big letters too if that is what your brain needs to see.

Default sensor range 800 meters
CAP sensor range 1000 meters
LRM range 1000 meters

As for Artemis, it has always worked that way. The only benefit to indirect fire is a slightly faster lock-on time. But you need line of sight for streaks anyway.

Edited by Golden Vulf, 08 October 2015 - 10:34 PM.

[Lykaon]

Troutmonkey, on 08 October 2015 - 09:56 PM, said:

BAP + TAG.
Or better yet don't bring LRMs

<sigh> so we should all just write off an entire weapon system because no one wants it done right? As consumers of a product we should hold the designers of this game accountable for any of the poor design choices that have been made including ECM and LRMs.

Now back on topic.

A 65 ton mech with 2x LRM15s and 4 x ER medium lasers with no tag?

I know you can fit a similar loadout on a Stormcrow because I use one like that.

2 LRM15s w/ 6 tons LRM ammo (NO ARTEMIS)
TAG (uses the Prime head omni pod )
4 ER medium lasers
Active Probe
A little bit of armor shy of max values.
14 DHS

The superior speed on the stormcrow frequently allows you more fire opertunities and the ability to engage the enemy your self instead of waiting (praying) for team members to hold a lock for your indirect fire.

If you can invest in Stormcrows do it or if you already have some use those for LRM platforms instead they (in my opinion) do it better than an Ebon Jag can.

Also,if you are not aware there is a bug with artemis and how it interacts with omni pods.I believe that if you buy artemis as a chassis upgrade linked to the CT if you remove all missile hardpoints on the mech you will be automaticly deducted the C-bills to remove artemis.Seems that if no missile hardpoints are currently on an Omnimech the system flags Artemis as invalid and removes it and charges you for the pleasure.

[Otto Cannon]

ECM doesn't take up a weapon hardpoint, and TAG shouldn't either. Support mechs should always carry backup weapons, and losing an energy hardpoint to TAG makes that impossible to do properly on some mechs.

BAP and TAG don't even come close to compensating for the ridiculous superpower of ECM as it is currently. Even after sacrificing 2.5 tons and a hardpoint it still makes lurms a waste of tonnage compared to any other weapon you could have brought instead.

[Lykaon]

Stefka Kerensky, on 08 October 2015 - 10:21 PM, said:

The funny thing about who suggest "take a bap", is that they seem to ignore bap range while the weapon is called LONG range missile.

Active probes cancel the closest ECM to the mech equiped with the BAP.

So it's true that an Active Probe will do nothing to allow locks on targets under ECM at ranges beyond the Active Probe's effective ECM counter range it does as has been stated provide other effects that are useful to your team as well as...

When an active disrupting hostile ECM is within range of a mech with LRMs or streaks it prevents locks.

So if your target is 500 meters away and not under ECM but you are under ECM you will not get locks until the enemy ECM is countered or removed.This what you need the Active Probe for.

TAG is there to allow locking on targets under ECM that are beyond your Active Probe counter ECM range.

So in closing.

Active Probe and TAG are needed to counter ECM in any degree of effectivness to allow locking weapons to function remotley in an effective manner.

Inner Sphere mechs get to spend 3 critical slots 2.5 tons and an energy hardpoint in ECM taxes if they hope to get any use out of LRMs.

[STEF_]

Lykaon, on 08 October 2015 - 10:44 PM, said:

Active probes cancel the closest ECM to the mech equiped with the BAP.

So it's true that an Active Probe will do nothing to allow locks on targets under ECM at ranges beyond the Active Probe's effective ECM counter range it does as has been stated provide other effects that are useful to your team as well as...

When an active disrupting hostile ECM is within range of a mech with LRMs or streaks it prevents locks.

So if your target is 500 meters away and not under ECM but you are under ECM you will not get locks until the enemy ECM is countered or removed.This what you need the Active Probe for.

TAG is there to allow locking on targets under ECM that are beyond your Active Probe counter ECM range.

So in closing.

Active Probe and TAG are needed to counter ECM in any degree of effectivness to allow locking weapons to function remotley in an effective manner.

Inner Sphere mechs get to spend 3 critical slots 2.5 tons and an energy hardpoint in ECM taxes if they hope to get any use out of LRMs.

Yea, also I think BAP is far more useful when mounted by brawlers.
Not only they can disrupt enemy ECM while going close, but also, by doing so, they let friendly lurmer to be useful.

When an enemy ecm is close to your lurmer.... it's a bit too late... something has already gone wrong, imo.

[Eiki]

Stefka Kerensky, on 08 October 2015 - 10:51 PM, said:

Yea, also I think BAP is far more useful when mounted by brawlers.
Not only they can disrupt enemy ECM while going close, but also, by doing so, they let friendly lurmer to be useful.

When an enemy ecm is close to your lurmer.... it's a bit too late... something has already gone wrong, imo.

This. I started mounting a BAP on my Hunchback. All those delicious ECM Disruption assists are delicious as are the tears of scouts who thought they would be invincible up until the point they start getting slammed by LRMs.

[Novakaine]

Titannium, on 08 October 2015 - 10:21 PM, said:

Novakaine, i can asure you, in T5 every second/third match im in a team with 0 ECM (read ZERO).

Its nothing better, to get LRMed whole team in around 2 minutes. Best expirince eva.

Sorry bro Tier 3 or at least I was not sure after tonight's losing streak.
Oh and on my support boats I always carry TAG and BAP.
Always.
But I have come to believe TAG and BAP stand for different things.
1. BAP stands for "Broke A.... Piece of equipment", which truly should be renamed BAPE.
2. TAG stands for "That Assault's Gone." by time time you finally achieve a lock it's has lumbered behind a twig for protection.
Especially joyful to watch an entire salvo hit a single limb on forest colony and evaporate.

Edited by Novakaine, 09 October 2015 - 12:02 AM.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

Stefka Kerensky, on 08 October 2015 - 10:51 PM, said:

When an enemy ecm is close to your lurmer.... it's a bit too late... something has already gone wrong, imo.

My experience differ a lot. The only successful lurmer I have (HBK4G, has tag+bap+artemis) usually stands just behind the first line. When the brawl starts I try to be ~300 meters from my enemy. Yeah, not always you can get THAT close, but when you do I can both disable ecm with BAP/tag, get artemis bonus when I have a line of sight, have the enemy unable to avoid lurms that home so fast on him, and finally I can put those 4 med lasers to use too.

IMHO the biggest problem with LRMs is that support equipment, epecially IS one, is INCREDIBLY HEAVY. You would need any lock support you can get to make LRMs successful in a tier above 4, but if you take it you don't have the place left for enough launchers or ammo... Artemis is +1 ton per launcher, so it's from 2 to 6 additional tons, BAP is 1,5 ton, tag is 1 ton and energy slot, narc is 3 tons and missle slot (4 tons with ammo)! In total, space you need to loose to max your odds when having 2 LRM launchers is 8,5 tons of equipment, 1 energy slot and 1 missle slot.
Artemis I can live with, BAP too, but barely. But do this laser pointer really have to weight 1000kg? It's just a laser pointer! NARC weight is just unbelievable. One tube launcher that weights as much as 6-tube SRM launcher? One narc beacon weights >83kg, while an SRM weights 10kg and LRM - a little above 5,5kg, both including fuel.

Weight of equimpent. That's IMHO the biggest problem with LRMs. If they lowered tag weight to 0,5 tons and narc to 1, add a bit more narc ammo per ton, then you wouldn't have to be an expert in LRMs just to have them viable above their 4.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 08 October 2015 - 11:50 PM.

[Vellron2005]

Oh yaaay....

Yet another ECM vs. LRM wee-wee please nerf/buff thread..

Seriously..

People who insist on using just LRM's... learn how, equip ECM counters accordingly, learn about battlefiled positioning and targeting "that one smartass who isn't carefull about staying in ECM cover", and also... simply accept the fact that playing LRM's requires skill, and that all-LRM builds are not viable on the modern MWO battlefield.

Use LRM's backed up with other weapons..

Also, USE YOUR OWN ECM mechs, and counter counter counter! In my humble opinion, countering ECM with your own ECM works better than BAP or TAG..

But if that's not a viable option for you, carry BAP and TAG, and use UAV's.. and if you get overwhelming ECM coverage... simply switch to your backup weapons.. bloody ERLL's...

Note:

Allmost every mech I own carries some type of LRM. I use it very very effectively. I never whine about ECM..

Edited by Vellron2005, 09 October 2015 - 12:56 AM.

[1Grimbane]

sorry home boy i run cap or bap most times and tag lights em up for everyone to see, ecm isnt OP, there are very effective ways to counter it




It is not a magic jesus box, i doubt Bap would reveal jesus and i'm sure you can't Tag him lol

Edited by 1Grimbane, 09 October 2015 - 01:00 AM.

[STEF_]

Prof RJ Gumby, on 08 October 2015 - 11:47 PM, said:

My experience differ a lot. The only successful lurmer I have (HBK4G, has tag+bap+artemis) usually stands just behind the first line.

a-ha... because of 4j quirks, so you can spam them like srm no-stop.

[Chados]

I think an active probe is a must-bring piece of equipment.

LRMs are hated because they are tremendously annoying. Clan LRMs seek the center torso of the Zeus with a vengeance and a couple cLRM20s will give it a bright yellow cored CT in very short order. Not all the maps have handy overhead cover.

LRMing is possible if you use good tactics. One of my best 'mechs is an A1C Catapult, ALRM15. It can brawl because the remaining hardpoints bring SRMs for when the LRMs are gone or for the inevitable LRM hunter. You can cut some of the backstabbing down by working at close range, because LRMing is better with friends. If you're moving at less than 68kph your 'mech is too slow, by the way. LRMing requires speed. Crank off a couple salvos and then move. You're likely to lose lock because of radar deprivation and ECM anyway.

ECM is greatly overpowered, but it can be countered with BAP and not being afraid to move in where you can unmask it, and use secondary weapons to help teamies in the brawl. Best place for my A1C is in the window between 180-280 meters (have range modules for the SRMs) so I can fire ALL THE MISSILES when I have line of sight to target, and my armor is in the firing line soaking damage when I'm not scuttling behind cover recharging or dropping heat.

[Novakaine]

Oh I forgot target decay modules.
Once again I use it on every LRM boat I own.
Cost me a small fortune.
My point is about 5-7 enemy ecm mechs in a match.
B.A.P and T.A.G don't mean J.A.C.K.