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[Rant] This Game Is Super Frustrating


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#21 Scurry

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 01:16 AM

Note that heavies have the longest wait times. Too many people play them. If fast games are what you want, another weight class will help.

Clan mechs, while powerful, take ages to buy and elite, which makes a significant difference to performance. I suggest doing another account, using the cadet bonus on getting a 3-set of good IS mechs and using those to grind C-bills.

Also, others have suggested resources for builds which are optimized. I suggest learning the ropes with those first, before building your own since experimentation is expensive.

Don't worry too much, things do get better. I started out pretty awful myself, but took it easy picking up bits of info here and there, playing with a good group. It gets more fun where I'm concerned.

Edited by Scurry, 09 October 2015 - 01:18 AM.


#22 InvictusLee

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 01:17 AM

View PostProf RJ Gumby, on 09 October 2015 - 12:53 AM, said:

Again, check what servers do you have ticked. Do you use Oceanic server only? The only reason for such wait times is using only one server outside of peak hours for that server (afternoon-evening in that and neightbouring time zones).

That's normal stats for a newbie. Had exactly 0.18 when I started :D

Funny thing is, people with "thousands" of damage actually must suck a lot. You can kill a mech with average of 80 damage when you aim good. Less for lights. Most experienced players will tell you that if you have above 800 damage in a match, you must have a bad aim, unless you have 5+ kills on top of that. 150dmg is average that you need to kill an average mech most of the time.

Don't listen to him. People who "perfected the meta timberwolf for 10 months" don't play in your tier. You can't be good and stay at tier 4. I am average IMHO and I use many weird builds, and I'm tier 3, going up. (tier 5 is lowest, 1 is highest, you're on tier 4, meta timberwolf masters sit at tier 1 and you'll never meet them until you advance in tiers, hell I never meet them myself).

You know, I suddenly feel a whole lot better.

Edited by November11th, 09 October 2015 - 01:18 AM.


#23 Prof RJ Gumby

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 01:39 AM

View PostApathy Enrage, on 09 October 2015 - 01:15 AM, said:

I disagree. I've got good aim, and high damage doesn't mean that at all. Kill Securing runs rampant in this game... I cannot tell you enough how many times I've had games of 800-1000+ damage and gotten only 1 or 2 kills, if even those, because as soon as I get something cored, if anyone happens to be targeting that mech, suddenly it's "override engaged, activate all the things, must get kill nao", and frankly, THAT'S what being a bad player is... If you overheat just to get a kill, that's a solid 10 second's you're vulnerable, not dealing damage, not helping your team, not getting assists, not moving, spotting, tagging, whatever it is you do... I'll take 1000 damage, 9 kill assists with most damage dealt with the W any day... My goal is to keep myself alive, with my team, and putting out as much consistent damage as possible... THAT is how you are a team player in a Fire Support mech... Once you stop thinking of kills as being the be all end all goal, and start focusing on what it takes to help your team secure the W, then you'll suddenly see a much better outcome to your games.


Kill stealing is an issue, but rather in higher tiers, with more tryhards. Remember, the OP is in tier 4. It's a different world, believe me, i"ve been there.

And yes, tiers work. Since PSR, I never met anybody I know is at tier 1 in pugs. Not ever. Tier 2 yes, but rarely. I've even make a little survey and asked people what tier they are in ingame after the tiers info went public. 95% answers - tier 3. On top of that, almost nobody I see in game use the actual top meta (gauss+lasers).

And lastly, damage to kill depends on the weapon used. Lasers and gauss haven't got much 'wasted damage', while SRMs have quite a lot, and LRMs a ton (if the enemy CT is already damaged, which is not a rare sight, up to 3/4 of the damage you do to him with lurms is useless, because it goes to all those other components that still won't pop, because CT will pop first). 800dmg for a lurmboat is nothing special in a won match.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 09 October 2015 - 01:43 AM.


#24 BattleBunny

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 01:43 AM

Sounds like the OP jumped into a multiplayer game expecting a single player experience.

You cant be the hero right away when you are facing people with more experience. We all start out sucking at this game.

#25 Yozzman

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 01:54 AM

View PostNovember11th, on 09 October 2015 - 12:39 AM, said:

Kills / Death
21 / 116 Kill / Death Ratio 0.18


Just play better dude...
This KDR is just total crap.

Ask the right questions on how to become better instead of ranting...

#26 Michal R

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 02:06 AM

But guys he had some right. For few days I wait 5-10 min for game it's to much I never wait so long.
Then stomp by stomp.
Something bad happened to MM.

#27 SaltBeef

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 02:06 AM

See **** Jump See **** Run, See **** Fly, See **** Die ....Don't be a **** to the Noob. Hey November remember it is just a game and half of the idiots posting Negs to you Build their ego's by it. They are Morons and Have never see actual combat and are Video game commando's.

#28 Prof RJ Gumby

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 02:07 AM

View PostYozzman, on 09 October 2015 - 01:54 AM, said:

Just play better dude...
This KDR is just total crap.
Ask the right questions on how to become better instead of ranting...

I wonder what were your stats two weeks after installing the game. How skilled were you in the end of September 2014?

#29 Khobai

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 02:08 AM

Quote

Note that heavies have the longest wait times. Too many people play them.


because theyre overpowered

weight classes arnt balanced. weapons arnt balanced. IS vs clan isnt balance. the whole game is a frustrating unbalanced mess.

#30 Sarlic

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 02:54 AM

Frustating game? Check
Frustating balance? Check
Frustating leadesigner? Check
Frustating management? Check
Frustating arena shooter? Check
Frustating terribad mapdesign? Check
Frustating search times? Check
Frustating cbill grind? Check
Frustating lack of communication? Check
Frustating New Player Experience? Check
Frustating lack of UI design? Check
Frustating events? Check
Frustating ghost C.W.? Check
Frustating mech scaling? Check
..
One thing might not be something, but if you look at the whole picture at add the most obvious things then this whole game is a mountain of frusties.


#31 LordDante

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 03:17 AM

get a medium mech, go meta, STICK TO ASSAULTS yes :
STICK TO THE ASSAULTS
protect their backs and their flank,
stop thinking of ur K/D
start thinking of ur W/L and what u can do to help ur team win the match.
Listen to the old dudes, if they tell you to go right dont go left.
did i tell you to stick to the assaults ???

staying back, not wasting my mech, was the thing that got me out of my bad K/D hell.
as a medium i stay with the assaults and cover their back and if i see the oppertunity i flank.
otherwhise
I STICK TO THE ASSAULTS

since the stat reset i have 100 drops on my YLW my K/D is 2.5 and my W/L is 1.7
THATS NOT FANCY but i feel quit good with it.

all i changed is written above!


btw try to torso twist from time to time ...

#32 Prof RJ Gumby

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 03:21 AM

View PostSarlic, on 09 October 2015 - 02:54 AM, said:

Frustating game? Check
Frustating balance? Check
Frustating leadesigner? Check
Frustating management? Check
Frustating arena shooter? Check
Frustating terribad mapdesign? Check
Frustating search times? Check
Frustating cbill grind? Check
Frustating lack of communication? Check
Frustating New Player Experience? Check
Frustating lack of UI design? Check
Frustating events? Check
Frustating ghost C.W.? Check
Frustating mech scaling? Check
..
One thing might not be something, but if you look at the whole picture at add the most obvious things then this whole game is a mountain of frusties.


Frustrated Sarlic? Check

#33 NextGame

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 03:22 AM

The thing I find most frustrating is that sometimes the game decides that you simply arent going to get a win for a day or 2, and packs your team with the biggest imbeciles logged in to MWO, practically competing to stand at the back and do the least damage possible. Which is exactly what seems to be the modus operandi for today incidentally.

Edited by NextGame, 09 October 2015 - 03:23 AM.


#34 Sarlic

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 03:47 AM

View PostProf RJ Gumby, on 09 October 2015 - 03:21 AM, said:


Frustrated Sarlic? Check


At some point you have to list it. Most people would still deny certain things though.

Fact is if you list the most obvious things about this game points to wasted potential.

#35 Widowmaker1981

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 03:53 AM

View PostProf RJ Gumby, on 09 October 2015 - 01:39 AM, said:


Kill stealing is an issue, but rather in higher tiers, with more tryhards. Remember, the OP is in tier 4. It's a different world, believe me, i"ve been there.

And yes, tiers work. Since PSR, I never met anybody I know is at tier 1 in pugs. Not ever. Tier 2 yes, but rarely. I've even make a little survey and asked people what tier they are in ingame after the tiers info went public. 95% answers - tier 3. On top of that, almost nobody I see in game use the actual top meta (gauss+lasers).

And lastly, damage to kill depends on the weapon used. Lasers and gauss haven't got much 'wasted damage', while SRMs have quite a lot, and LRMs a ton (if the enemy CT is already damaged, which is not a rare sight, up to 3/4 of the damage you do to him with lurms is useless, because it goes to all those other components that still won't pop, because CT will pop first). 800dmg for a lurmboat is nothing special in a won match.


Your main issue with assuming that high dmg / low kill = bad player is that you assume there is no such thing as defensive skill, only offensive, which is bullcrap. Good players twist damage and dont present their injured components to you. If you have a shot in the vast majority of situations you should take it - sure, when you are using lasers/PPCs facing off vs an ape armed assault, dont shoot his arms when hes twisted, save your heat till he twists back, but generally? Take the shot you have. Dont sit there waiting for the ideal shot, it might not come. If you see a mechs arm sticking out from behind cover while nothing has LOS on you? Shoot the arm. dont expose yourself to return fire.

Its POSSIBLE for high damage to not mean anything (someone shooting off 6 components on an disconnected Atlas while there are still live mechs, for example), but consistently high damage = good player. end of story. Only slight caveat being that LRMs and Streaks will inflate damage numbers relative to effectiveness, so the dmg bar is higher for those builds.

#36 Paigan

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 03:59 AM

View PostNovember11th, on 08 October 2015 - 11:42 PM, said:

Load times are unbelievably long.Takes twenty minutes to jump into a match and takes three minutes or less to be blown to pieces. If all we are gonna do is match making why cant we have smaller matches and therefore faster load times?

To top it off my team almost always gets slaughtered every match, and if i happen to survive I am usually hunted down. Then the HUD starts to shake. It shakes alot, at THE MOST inopportune time, like when I'm shooting at something.

I rarely do over 156 damage. I never get kills. I am killed more often than not, even if I'm striking at vital spots. I've tried all different kinds of load outs, different weapons, Tons of heat sinks, no heat sinks. Sniper? Sure, right until I get ganged up on. Brawler? It's great except to do any damage I have to get insanely close which cause me to become a target. All around? Missile Boat? Its the same all the time. I die quickly.

The only reason I like this game at all is because I like Mechs but playing this game is like an exercise in masochism. I say this after playing over 100 matches. I'd much rather be playing through a story mode, hitting objectives, and actually enjoying the reason I came to this game: The mechs.

If I wanted to take potshots at people I'd just go play Destiny.



I can understand your frustration.

My goal in the first few matches I played: doing more than 20 damage before dying.
And that in an (MC-bought) Timberwolf (unnerfed Timbergod back then).
Pretty pathetic, wasn't it?

Yes it was. And yes the game is kind of hard, especially when playing in PUGs.

Today I do between ~200 and ~600 damage (mostly ~400), still often 0 kills (partyl due to tactical reasons. Supporting the team instead of going for kills), often 1-2, sometimes 4 kills. And I still die very often :-D.

It gets better :-)

The stomping and nascaring remains frustrating, however.
The worst players complain the loudest about the crappy team and as soon as someone plays anything but dead-on primitive brawling (like I do. Long range, covering flanks, forcing enemies into cover for brawlers to close in, etc.), he gets flamed for playing bad, no matter the actual match score and contribution.

#37 Prof RJ Gumby

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 04:32 AM

View PostWidowmaker1981, on 09 October 2015 - 03:53 AM, said:

Your main issue with assuming that high dmg / low kill = bad player...

I'm not saying high damage / low kill = low skill. I know that all depends on the circumstances and enemy ability to roll damage. Dmg is veeery relative, I know.

I said "extremely high damage"/low kill = low skill. Actually there would need to be a lot of bad players in such a game. The OP used terms "thousands of damage". That's extremely high damage IMHO. So let's say he meant at least 1100dmg. Imagine having 1100dmg and 1 kill? That's either terribly bad luck, super shameless kill stealing by teammates, or terrible inefficiency to kill the enemy. Or few of those combined.

EDIT: oh, and I would like to remind that we're talking (or at leas I was talking from the very beginning) about tier 4 experience. So no super offensive-defensive skills. Just people who generally know how to use a mech more or less.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 09 October 2015 - 05:03 AM.


#38 sycocys

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 05:17 AM

Areseye stated it the best - most of your frustration is because you haven't adopted/learned the skill of playing as a team.

This is the number one thing that separates success from failure in this game.

View PostProf RJ Gumby, on 09 October 2015 - 12:53 AM, said:


Funny thing is, people with "thousands" of damage actually must suck a lot. You can kill a mech with average of 80 damage when you aim good. Less for lights. Most experienced players will tell you that if you have above 800 damage in a match, you must have a bad aim, unless you have 5+ kills on top of that. 150dmg is average that you need to kill an average mech most of the time.


People getting 800-1k+ damage a match understand how the rewards system works. Damage, destruction and kills most damage are far more valuable than a 80 damage kill. I'm taking your arms, a leg, all your front armor then a torso at the minimum - probably just leave you there for somebody else to kill and move on to the next mech if you survive a lost st.

#39 RedMercury

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 05:39 AM

Navid is right, instead of dismissing a new player's feedback or offering unpractical suggestions (Just get this meta mech, join a group... well, if you could donate to every newbie 10 mil, nay, 30 mil for the CHANCE to grind the xp to elite it, sure, or maybe make grouping up basically automatic/required, sure), the community should really reflect on how brutal this game is for new players. When steam launch hits, this story will be repeated over and over. Actually, most players will likely give up way before 100 games, because they were not here for the mechs or any love for Battletech, but because MWO was something they wanted to try, to see if it is fun.. With the current setup (almost zero tutorial guidelines about strategy and position, dropping into mid tier 4) they are most likely going to be hit by a wall of frustration and leave before the game can grow on them.




With 12 on 12 matches, the key to survival and doing well (at most levels) is positioning. You have to be at a place where you can do damage while not be shot at by more than one or two mechs. Skill in aiming and other technical skills are really secondary. Yet basically none of this is taught in the tutorials. There's no current approach to ease a player into difficult , highly complex battles. What really should happen is new players play small, e.g. 3 on 3 battles where positioning is less key and they get a chance to practice the technicals. Then they can move up to larger, maybe 8 on 8. Last they can learn the complexity of a 12 on 12 battle. It's like soccer. You don't drop a new player in a full 11 v 11 game and expect the new player to play well. They have to get the fundamentals down in practice first, and maybe play small sided games where complexity is lower.




Back in the day on Battletech MUXs with the equivalent of community warefare (as opposed to "sim sites" which were like the pug queue), new players could not even hit the battlefield without joining a faction. They would join the faction and be sent to the training officer. The training officer would go through the basic battlemech manuals and newbies would have to pass 3 to 5 simulated tests before graduation from the cadet school. The tests would be along the lines of: piloting obstacle course, symmetric duel, asymmetric duel, small group on small group combat. The last test was the most realistic, with factionmates helping out to flesh out the teams. Teams would have designated OP leads and operate as in a real fight. The new player would have to follow orders and fight with his team, with the training officer watching over his shoulder (instead of in the opponent mech). If the cadet passes this, then they go on probation and get a low tier mech for realspace. MUX was a real time commitment, but it was also near a military simulation. The simsites dropped you into battles like pug queue, and produced completely different warriors. I know, I cut my chops at a sim site. I was technically proficient but still had to go through cadet school to learn the strategy, positioning, and teamwork aspects.


Multiplayer battletech is really complex and unforgiving. It has a very steep learning curve (even on the dueling level it is steep). Throwing newbies in with tier 4 is a huge mistake. Tier 4 is filled with skilled casuals and veterans who don't play well in a win/loss or point system sort of way. A new player will be completely overmatched in terms of the fundamentals. I've spectated newbies who haven't gotten their aiming down trying to fight the average tier 4. It was a slaughter. And then there are the tier 3s . New players need their own tier.

Edited by RedMercury, 09 October 2015 - 05:53 AM.


#40 Widowmaker1981

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Posted 09 October 2015 - 05:44 AM

View PostProf RJ Gumby, on 09 October 2015 - 04:32 AM, said:


EDIT: oh, and I would like to remind that we're talking (or at leas I was talking from the very beginning) about tier 4 experience. So no super offensive-defensive skills. Just people who generally know how to use a mech more or less.


Id be willing to bet that the vast majority of 1000+ dmg scores in T4/5 games are made by alts of good players tbqfh.





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