81 replies to this topic

[multisoul]

this makes sense only for the battle for Tukayyid end game, actually it would be nice to have end game for several months until something new will be made for CW gameplay, then waiting will be shorter.

[ChewBaka]

TWIAFU, on 12 October 2015 - 11:16 AM, said:

And here we go again....

Forgotten this week that CW is made PRIMARILY for Groups and Unit play?

Solo player rambo mindset is in direct opposition to the game mode.

You complain enough as is about the solo queue filled with pugtards and now you want that same thing for CW?

Solo player only queue would defeat the intent of CW, playing in group/unit.

Solo player only queue and no participant would be able to own planets or reap rewards, just cbills and LP. So all risk and no reward.

We have a solo only queue now where all the special pilots can go and play all by themselves.

This is a stupid elitist mentality.

Call it ragtag mercenaries who don't like and distrust each other vs another similar group. That actually happens in a war, y'know. All sorts of people get hired and dragged into a conflict. Yes, these disparate group can also get thrown up against a more cohesive unit but this is still a game and hence we can afford to make it fair-ish.

I can accept the explanation that the population numbers would not support queue separation. Your line of reasoning, not so much.

Not all of us have the time to commit to a group. Plus some of us still want to faction hop for a while to get the rewards.

[TWIAFU]

Titannium, on 14 October 2015 - 04:47 AM, said:

The point of this thread isnt denying fact, that in theory CW should be for groups only. i believe the idea works great on paper.

But no in current gamestate.
CW currently play <5% of all mwo population(becuase ******** group vs pug stomps and horrible waiting times). Make it public for pug vs pug means, people will start play it, there will not be leet noob teams farming.

And thats all.

Titannium, on 14 October 2015 - 04:58 AM, said:

I understand people from leet groups -ms-, 228 and others are scared to death for group vs group mode. Cause they will not win (stomp pug) anymore in CW. But I dont care about those. They are minority in whole mwo pop.

And here we are AGAIN. You never seem to get tired of this evil premade is the debil and they are here for nothing more then to farm and mock poor PUGs.

Even when, you and everyone else here has been told over and over and over, the 12man premade is 1% or LESS of the whole group population. And yet, you still perpetuate this 12man boogeyman LIE.

Your biased agenda is crystal clear and laughable in the face of fact.

You just cannot be taken seriously at all, even if you could have been in the first place - and that is highly suspect.

Your stomps are happening TO PUGs BY PUGs because it is the PUG group that is most preveliant in CW.

But actual fact and numbers provided by PGI have no place in your baseless BS rant.

[Jon Gotham]

Titannium, on 13 October 2015 - 01:18 AM, said:

Even if you 4x prizes, nobody will play stomp. you are totaly wrong.
And as i said, there is more PUGers, then some leet noob teams who uses CW for stomping.

Why so many people deny 2 queues ? groups vs groups only and pug vs pug only ? PUGers are 90%+.
PUG queue will be filled +- same as regular solo pug.

And groups ? they can fight each other, but hey, they will cry no more stomp, but thats their-MINORITY problem.

PUG = 90% of mwo pop. so rebuild CW for them, or close CW as whole.

Your attitude is shamefully poor.

[DarklightCA]

Titannium, on 14 October 2015 - 04:47 AM, said:

The point of this thread isnt denying fact, that in theory CW should be for groups only. i believe the idea works great on paper.

But no in current gamestate.
CW currently play <5% of all mwo population(becuase ******** group vs pug stomps and horrible waiting times). Make it public for pug vs pug means, people will start play it, there will not be leet noob teams farming.

And thats all.

Community Warfare is all about teamwork and cooperation to accomplish set objectives. That does not sound like something that was designed for solo que rambo's. That sounds more like it was designed for that "5%" of grouped players (higher % in reality). Changing it to solo que only will not stop bad players from being stomped in CW. Those "5%" of grouped players will just sync drop, work together and continue to stomp solo que pugs.

The only thing that will save CW is when PGI finally adds rewards for conquering planets and holding planets making group play in CW more rewarding. More groups forming to play CW = better wait times and better matches. Leave regular que for solo droppers and better promote grouped play in CW.

Titannium, on 14 October 2015 - 04:58 AM, said:

I understand people from leet groups -ms-, 228 and others are scared to death for group vs group mode. Cause they will not win (stomp pug) anymore in CW. But I dont care about those. They are minority in whole mwo pop.

Please, I pray for grouped vs grouped CW matches. If that is all CW was I would actually only play CW. Stomping pugs is in no way fun and I doubt the unit with the current most planets conquered in CW and one of the top 5 most competitive units in the game would really have a problem with grouped vs grouped matches either. That is how CW should be, units grouped together fighting tough matches for there right to conquer planets.

[Idealsuspect]

Well CW haven't separate solo and group queues and at this moment: CW is really dead nothing more... CW map haven't change since 4 weeks maybe wolf won some planets,FFR too that's all.

But 90% of forums warriors don't want any change everything is fine héhé ok ok.
They will argu CW population is too low ( it's true yea but it wasn't true one year ago when 10% of us were asking for spliting queues .. be happy you failed )


MWO population 95% puggin solo queue - 5% groups
CW population 70% pugs - 30% group ( groups population going down hard to build a group when waiting time are growing endless )
Forums population "about CW Queue" 10% pugs - 90% groups
Stats aren't revelant just personnal count.

Edited by Idealsuspect, 17 October 2015 - 08:26 AM.

[-Vompo-]

How antigroup players always bring up that pugs are driven out of cw when 9/10 the FRR groups I play in fight against pugs? Surely this only shows that there are a lot of pugs in cw. I've never dropped alone in cw but I've dropped in small groups (3-5 players) a few times and we faced mostly pugs and small groups. Getting stomped by a twelve man is not very common.

[wanderer]

CW is about large groups because it's only got large group content.

And if smaller (4 or less) groups are very common....which at least in Liao they are, then content for CW that's aimed towards these groups is an excellent choice to stimulate CW play. Reward 12-man runs with larger influence per success, but let 4v4 fights do so at a lower rate. Say, it takes 4 wins at 4v4 level = 1 win at 12v12. Yes, it'll mean multiple 4v4s likely happen in a given map section depending on control levels, and on "similar" map types. If a section is "hot", 4v4's would be happening on maps like Caustic vs. the 12v12 CW map type. If it's "cold", we might be seeing fights on Arctic/Frozen City. And so on.

[Jon Gotham]

This 4v4 thing...I do hope they are going to do something about what combination of mechs you can have imagine facing x4 twin ERLL ACH for example if you are in slow mechs (60kph) you'll lose every time......
Imagine facing x4 SJR/228EmP that will feel worse than a 12 man....

Just a note here, with 4v4 it's going to feel a LOT more personal than it currently does and just ONE bad teammate will end your chances....the less people in a drop the more personal pressure there is.....I think some of you are in for one nasty shock.

[Kin3ticX]

kamiko kross, on 18 October 2015 - 09:06 AM, said:

This 4v4 thing...I do hope they are going to do something about what combination of mechs you can have imagine facing x4 twin ERLL ACH for example if you are in slow mechs (60kph) you'll lose every time......
Imagine facing x4 SJR/228EmP that will feel worse than a 12 man....

Just a note here, with 4v4 it's going to feel a LOT more personal than it currently does and just ONE bad teammate will end your chances....the less people in a drop the more personal pressure there is.....I think some of you are in for one nasty shock.

This is why I dont like the 4v4 thing. 1 or 2 dead weights and you are finished, so units will always put 4 decent players on these tasks. Casuals will essentially be shut out of the queue or whatever it is.

[RussianWolf]

CW will never have the population to support separate queue.

Reason: attitude. When people berate other players mech choice, loadout choices and say things like "no newbs", "Go back to PUG queue", etc. People go away and stay away.

CW players, don't complain about the lack of CW pop/wait times, you did it to yourselves.

I didn't even make it though the first page before I saw this in full force in this thread.

My unit keeps asking me to do a CW drop, that its changed. Maybe I will, but my expectations are very low for change and my requirements are pretty high.

Over 3 years I've been playing. I've stopped paying.

[RussianWolf]

Kin3ticX, on 18 October 2015 - 04:35 PM, said:

Don't even try to blame the community here in the forums, the entire execution of CW is PGI and the bad feedback they get through secret lines of communication.

We essentially just are babbling at each other in an echochamber and all thats left after everything is smoke.

Both are to blame i my opinion.

PGI for making some terrible maps with one dimensioanl tactics. And allowing and encouraging one trick pony builds with the way the mechs are designed and the quirk system. (what works in TT may not work in a PC game, and in this case really does not)

Players get the blame for the attitude in game. When you have people spouting diatribes in chat when they see someone in CW with trial mechs, or complaining endlessly about someone bringing a mech other than the "top 5 over quirked CW approved" list mechs (and I still have found no such list, but they apparently have one). Instead of trying to help someone that is less experienced, and just telling them to GTFO, uninstall, etc. Then they complain that their wait times are horrible. Guess what? You did nothign but helped that come to pass. You have chosen to act in a way that drives people away, and people left. Congrats.

[Galenit]

Black Ivan, on 13 October 2015 - 01:57 AM, said:

Russ stated that CW does not have enough population to even create a match maker for it, so I don't think the mode has enough players to warrant seperate Solo and Group Ques.

Money talks!

Do the groups give them more money then the single players?
The quote above and the last patches says no.
(When was the last cw update?
How many updates for the single queues where there since the last cw update?)

Do you want better cw?
Then it needs more income.

How does cw gets more income?
More players.

How to get more players in cw?
Seperate groups from soloplayers in cw, because most players dont want to play against groups.

Dont want to seperate cw queues?
No money put in cw, because it generates not enough income.

Simple business ...

Edited by Galenit, 21 October 2015 - 03:31 AM.

[MaxFool]

Having separate solo queue is just not working if you can pick the planet you'll drop in. It's not rocket science to have all your team mates drop at same time in same planet, and have most of them drop in same game. And everyone who doesn't drop at that game drops all together in next one.

[Tywren]

TWIAFU, on 15 October 2015 - 03:20 AM, said:

And here we are AGAIN. You never seem to get tired of this evil premade is the debil and they are here for nothing more then to farm and mock poor PUGs.

Even when, you and everyone else here has been told over and over and over, the 12man premade is 1% or LESS of the whole group population. And yet, you still perpetuate this 12man boogeyman LIE.

Your biased agenda is crystal clear and laughable in the face of fact.

You just cannot be taken seriously at all, even if you could have been in the first place - and that is highly suspect.

Your stomps are happening TO PUGs BY PUGs because it is the PUG group that is most preveliant in CW.

But actual fact and numbers provided by PGI have no place in your baseless BS rant.

There is some truth in your fiction, and some lies in your truth. Yes 12 man groups (or 8 man groups with 4 trusted allies) are only a small percentage, however they are the ones who are most often going to initiate the first attack drop on a planet. And who are the ones we see dropping in first to respond in defense of that planet? The random pugs that click the Call to Arms button.

This is what leads to the disproportionately high number of unit vs. pug stomps even though large unit droppers are such a small part of the population.

[Galenit]

MaxFool, on 21 October 2015 - 01:06 PM, said:

Having separate solo queue is just not working if you can pick the planet you'll drop in. It's not rocket science to have all your team mates drop at same time in same planet, and have most of them drop in same game. And everyone who doesn't drop at that game drops all together in next one.

You mean groups would syncdrop to farm pugs and not using the group-cw then?

TWIAFU, on 15 October 2015 - 03:20 AM, said:

And here we are AGAIN. You never seem to get tired of this evil premade is the debil and they are here for nothing more then to farm and mock poor PUGs.

Splitting the cw-queue would show if you are right or MaxFool is right.

I bet on Max.

Edited by Galenit, 21 October 2015 - 05:56 PM.

[MaxFool]

Groups would not even have to sync drop in solo queue to farm PUGs, if they don't get matches in group queue they'll drop in solo queue and since they are in same unit they are in same faction and drop in same planet. Farming PUGs intentionally would be very easy, but they'd do it unintentionally too. I drop solo a lot, and I end up in same team with people I know all the time.

Edited by MaxFool, 21 October 2015 - 07:28 PM.

[JaxRiot]

TWIAFU, on 15 October 2015 - 03:20 AM, said:

Even when, you and everyone else here has been told over and over and over, the 12man premade is 1% or LESS of the whole group population. And yet, you still perpetuate this 12man boogeyman LIE.

Not to argue with you (because I honestly dont really know), but I am always a little suspicious of those percentage numbers and always wonder if they are being taken out of context a bit.

Ive only been playing since early this year, but the only time I remember seeing percentages of Pugs vs. Premades in CW posted was just after the Tukayyid event, except I seem to remember something like 5% were Premades or some such.

My point is that when you start throwing in population levels of the events too, then it kind of skews the over all view. In the Tukayyid event there were a whole lot more casual/solo players participating and the event lasted a week. The number of drops happening were insane compared to a normal CW day.

So, is that 1% from the combined drops of events too? Or does it accurately reflect CW in its natural state during non events?

Again, I am not trying to argue because I have no idea. I havnt participated in CW in months and couldnt tell you either way.

Cheers

Jax

[Tordin]

I might be spitting in the wind. But I think I saw some youtube footage from before the MWO beta, or cw beta? Of a guy from PGI with ideas and stuff. That, no matter if you were an loyalist, lone wolf or mercenary you would take part in a grand war between factions, clan and inner sphere (CW). I doubt he meant PUG play. The horizon for that vision seems muddy now me thinks. Looking to Phase 3.

Now I know having lone wolves in cw would "ruin" an organised groups day. Oh dear, oh dear...
So yeah, let that cw population dwindle then. There could be balances, rewards and such for both being a lone wolf and loyalist in CW. How freaking hard can it be?
Separate ques then, make different objectives for defending/ attacking that particular planet based of which kind of player you are. Right now Mercs are way to overpopulated and powerful.

Mercs dont care, they are both group based and lone wolves as far as I know. Loyality traded with money.

Edited by Tordin, 22 October 2015 - 07:21 AM.

[Ano]

Aresye Kerensky, on 13 October 2015 - 10:15 AM, said:

So many solo players are dropping in nothing but trial mechs for CW.

I think there's this misconception going around about CW that it's better for CBills/XP, etc, and lots of brand new players with no mechs of their own are going in there hoping to grind CBills quicker.

I realise this is from earlier in the thread, but if you're finding a lot of VERY inexperienced players, perhaps in trial mechs, showing up in the pug groups in CW then I suspect it's related to the CW rewards. Specifically, you get Mechbays at rank 2 and at rank 6, and if you're a player who doesn't yet want to spend real-world money on MWO, this is the only way to get mechbays unless there's an event running in the solo queue that happens to have mechbays as a reward.

I don't know this for sure, and I don't currently play CW (because of the wait times as a solo player, last I tried queuing, rather than anything else) but it seems quite likely this is the case; you certainly see people mention CW as a way to get mechbays in the New Player forum.

--

I realise that there's something of a chicken/egg scenario with queue times for CW: some players (like me) don't bother because the queue times are too long, which means there are fewer players so longer queues which means we don't queue, etc etc.

I do wonder whether, as an experiment, a "grand alliance month-long event" could be declared (or whatever justification is necessary) to blend the factions into IS (all) vs Clans (all), and then for the duration of the event radically limit the worlds available for conquest/defence -- perhaps even to just one or two. I realise this strips some of the lore basis for CW, but it would hopefully also result in considerably shorter queue times. I can't authoritatively speak for other players, but assuming I'm not the only player avoiding CW principally because I've experienced long waits/no match found in CW in the past, hopefully others like me would be up for trying again if the mechanics were such that we'd be funnelled into a match fairly quickly.

That might be enough for a) people to get a good sense of whether they like the game mode, and if it's successful and there are a reasonable number of players, suggest options for adjustments to CW to encourage more of the playerbase to get involved.