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Proof Lrms Are Over-Nerfed

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#1 Lightfoot

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 06:29 AM

View Postadamts01, on 10 October 2015 - 11:34 AM, said:

I want a button to keep from getting grouped with these mechs. Yes, bigger mechs can make better missile boats. No, you should never do it. That armor needs to be on the front line providing direct fire. There are plenty of mediums that can be incredible missile boats if you have that itch. Stop screwing over your team for that one game out of 5 when your skill button saves the day.


I think that says it all.

Restore LRMs to their December 2014 abilities. Not completely sure what was done around January 2015 to LRMs, but that's when suddenly you would see lone mechs, caught in the open with no AMS, walk through 400-600 LRMs and barely take damage to one arm.

When LRMs are working right you see constant complaints from the players who never use them, think missiles are no-skill exploits, and want them removed from the game. When they fall silent it means you have effectively removed LRMs by making them useless.

#2 sycocys

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 06:34 AM

Personally I don't mind where lrms are at. Right now if you want to use them you have to actually be awake at your keyboard and at the minimum have some knowledge of the maps and target info sharing system.

Still not great against good players, but most of the weapons systems come down a notch or two when playing against them anyhow.

#3 Clydewinder

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 06:51 AM

LRM are a waste of tonnage right now. The only time I use them is in the first few rounds when basic-ing a new mech to try and get a bunch of assists / XP to unlock cool run and heat containment. After that, back in the bin.

#4 El Bandito

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 06:54 AM

View PostClydewinder, on 11 October 2015 - 06:51 AM, said:

Inner Sphere LRMs are a waste of tonnage right now.


Fixed that for you. Clan LRMs are very lightweight and have good direct fire angles, and can deal damage within 180 meter range. They are fine to be brought along and one can have plenty of tonnage left for back up weapons.
Unlike what many people think, Clan LRM > IS LRM.

Edited by El Bandito, 11 October 2015 - 06:57 AM.


#5 Squarebasher

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 06:55 AM

LRMs can be effective, but you need to be moving with your team, also your mech has to have other weapons to use when needed, if you have an LRM only mech you get problems.

#6 Screech

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 06:58 AM

OP does not even know what changes he is asking for but we are supposed to believe he is right. That is change we can believe in.

#7 Madcap72

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 07:15 AM

Put the damage back to 1.1... or maybe a froggy 1.2 so I can hear forum warriors lament how OP they are again!

#8 Rhavin

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 07:16 AM

If you are bombing lrms from across the map all day you are doing it wrong. LRMS are great at 200 to 400 Range because of track Time , getting a lock and fireing your missles and having them almost immediately conneCT instead of having them avoided and tracked into cover is the key to use. If you are wasting time holding a lock from across the map only to have your targets lock fall off due to los, you are not moving into a better position to support your team, you are not contributing to team success and you are wasting tonnage.

#9 adamts01

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 07:19 AM

That quote was from my post. With the current state of the game I think heavy and assault missile boat tonnage is much better used as direct fire. At least in solo drops with no dedicated spotter. I also think LRMs are exactly where they should be, it's the ECM bubble size that's the problem. I don't think BAP/CAP should be nerfed to matched either, keep it where it is. As far as "just use tag and get your own locks," that's fine and dandy if you have plenty of armor to absorb all the shots you'll take when everyone sees your "shoot me, I'm here" laser you have to hold until your missiles hit. I also think Tag should be invisible. Or only visible with enhanced imaging.

#10 Phex

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 07:21 AM

Now... Lrm's are only realy effektiv wehen there is a spotter. So reward scouting and spotting more and you make Lrm's more effektiv. I play the spotter, not the Lrm's. If there is a good lrm Pilot in the Team, it pays out verry good for the lrm and Ok to bad for the spotter.
Scouting is not reward enough.
Greetings Phex

Posted Image

Edited by Phex, 11 October 2015 - 07:41 AM.


#11 Monkey Lover

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 07:22 AM

Few get mad at lasers,ac killing them but most hate lrms.

We need to buff lrms back to normal and remove the shacking,light and most the sound effects for lrms. I really think this would stop most the lrm rage.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 11 October 2015 - 07:23 AM.


#12 Josef Koba

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 07:23 AM

I sometimes take in LRM boats and often have decent success. I think of them as something that strips a little bit of armor here and there for a cumulative effect. Sometimes I'll put an LRM rack on a mech just to add a little something in the indirect fire category, or to give my mech something to do while I get to the brawl. I almost never fire at anything beyond 750 meters, though. I find that I waste too many missiles unless there's a light spotting or tagging or NARCing stuff. Overall I think LRMs are in a "decent" place right now. I know that on the receiving end, if I'm not careful, they can make for a bad day.

#13 Zoid

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 07:31 AM

Nah, LRMs are fine right now. The only thing that's not is ECM vs LRMs. Most of the time they function exactly as they are supposed to, which is as a suppression/harassment weapon. If people are locking targets like they should be, then it becomes much harder to focus fire the hell out of anyone because as soon as you pop out, you have to get back in cover or eat a bunch of missiles. One of the best things you can do if you're running an LRM boat is support a Dire Wolf. If anything starts shooting at the DWF, toss some LRMs at it to force it to hide and give the DWF time to get back into cover.

The only thing that sucks is how if the other team has 3-4 ECM, you're pretty much useless. Even with TAG, you still take way too long to lock and it's just too damn obvious that someone is locking onto you when you see the laser. Anything but the slowest of 'mechs can easily get to cover before the actual missiles get there if protected by ECM.

It's also worth noting that they are mostly a support weapon, so if your team sucks, you're gonna have a bad time. LRM boats are at their most effective in a pretty evenly matched game because they can throw help to almost anywhere on the map and thus turn the tide of many small skirmishes.

#14 Davers

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 07:51 AM

View PostLightfoot, on 11 October 2015 - 06:29 AM, said:


I think that says it all.

Restore LRMs to their December 2014 abilities. Not completely sure what was done around January 2015 to LRMs, but that's when suddenly you would see lone mechs, caught in the open with no AMS, walk through 400-600 LRMs and barely take damage to one arm.

When LRMs are working right you see constant complaints from the players who never use them, think missiles are no-skill exploits, and want them removed from the game. When they fall silent it means you have effectively removed LRMs by making them useless.

I wouldn't want to see them buffed too much with their current mechanics. I just don't think auto-hit weapons, that rely more on your opponent's bad positioning than your skill, should be as good as weapons that require you to actually aim.

#15 Burktross

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 08:07 AM

Indirect Lrms are fine, but I feel that direct fire lrms should have a shallower arc and travel quicker.

#16 Osteo2001

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 08:11 AM

View PostMonkey Lover, on 11 October 2015 - 07:22 AM, said:

... remove the shacking,light and most the sound effects for lrms. I really think this would stop most the lrm rage.


I'd base the shake on mass. Lights and meds should shake, heavies and assaults I'd drop it a bit but still leave some, and if you're gonna' take a mass of missiles to your mech, you're gonna' have some explosive light, aren't you? Please leave some real physics in the game...

I don't boat but a LRM or two at 180m-200m range is a ball when you're hitting 'em with 2 LL, a volley of LRM's, 2 more LL rinse and repeat. Its fun!

#17 Peter2k

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 08:35 AM

an assaults spot is either on the front lines, or just behind
especially Stalkers can soak so much damage if someone capable pilots it

most games are lost because assault pilots were indecisive and waited for the mediums and heavies to push by themselves

or even better yet
the lone assault waiting 900m away from the frontline and complaining about no locks (and why no one goes out and sacrifices himself for some locks)

a sign of a truly bad player
he dies alone way in the back, without having done any damage really, outnumbered 10 to 1
lastly, he complains how bad the team was



I think LRM's are fine as they are
they're not a solo pugger weapon, they're a team weapon

sure I wouldn't bring LRM's against a 228th 12 man
but running 2 dedicated LRM boats with scouts/TAG support (n maybe some guards/flankers) can ruin everyone's day


maybe make taking a TAG instead of a medium laser worth my while
or
maybe drop 1t from every IS launcher or such

#18 Mechwarrior Buddah

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 08:45 AM

Ive been carrying THIS banner for years.

#19 Weeny Machine

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 08:50 AM

LRMs' performance also depend on the map. On some they are really great (LRM Valley...err Caustic) and on others they are just a joke (Mining imo). Of course ECM is also a factor

Still I would prefer that the lock mechanic would require a TAG lock for X seconds or a NACR hit. Of course then the direct fire viability needs to be looked at and the velocity increased

Edited by Bush Hopper, 11 October 2015 - 08:52 AM.


#20 Lightfoot

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Posted 11 October 2015 - 10:55 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 11 October 2015 - 06:54 AM, said:


Fixed that for you. Clan LRMs are very lightweight and have good direct fire angles, and can deal damage within 180 meter range. They are fine to be brought along and one can have plenty of tonnage left for back up weapons.
Unlike what many people think, Clan LRM > IS LRM.


Actually Clan LRMs are worse due to the stream firing. The damage drops off steeply under 180 so that by 100 meters they are doing about 25% damage, it's a trivial ability in MWO. I run ALRM 25 on my Protector, they fire in a big clump and do about double the damage of Clan ALRM 25. Don't worry PGI has nerfed Clan LRMs heavily or you would all be crying LRMs killed me. Sometimes I can't even see an effect from Artemis on Clan LRMs, it seems to work better if the LRMs are fired in a clump.

I test LRMs and Clan LRMs endlessly, run them on some favorite mechs. I know exactly what they do and it's pretty bad for Clan and Inner Sphere. I actually like I.S LRMs better, they at least have a small punch when they hit.





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