572 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

For heatsinks, my thoughts are as follows:

1. The fact that they are FINALLY attempting some type of minor help to SHS is overdue. This proposed buff is microscopic, but at least it shows that they are willing.

2. I'm okay with the IS DHS boost, though not really enthusiastic one way or another. Meh.

3. I would rather keep Clan DHS at their current cooling/capacity values, really. If we really need to, maybe we could reduce their item health to around 5 or so to make them get critted out much more often.


For the lasers, I want to see what exactly they mean (e.g. is the optimal range affected, etc.) but it seems fairly weird. I think that there might be a better way for some of them, like nudging down the damage by 1 point on Clan medium and large class lasers or w/e.

[Top Leliel]

The ECM changes, by the way, are good. And they sound to me like an indirect missile buff.

And yes, why not just buff missiles to make the "meta" more than laser vomit, rather than nerfing lasers to being far weaker than they are supposed to be?

[Wintersdark]

Navid A1, on 13 October 2015 - 06:09 PM, said:

Greater than 60% of the laser's max range. In that range the laser will not do full damage already.

I'm so horrified at the thought that they said "Maximum Range" but actually meant "Optimal Range"

[Top Leliel]

Also, what about Flamers? If they're going to re-balance the game, why don't they pay attention to the fact that one of the weapons is literally useless right now?

[Kira Onime]

This balance pass screams "YOU WILL LOVE INFOTECH EVEN IF YOU DON'T".

I look forward to clan vs IS balance but all this forced infotech ******** is... no...

[MechPorn]

Goodbye Jesus Box:

[El Bandito]

Top Leliel, on 13 October 2015 - 06:18 PM, said:

The ECM changes, by the way, are good. And they sound to me like an indirect missile buff.

And yes, why not just buff missiles to make the "meta" more than laser vomit, rather than nerfing lasers to being far weaker than they are supposed to be?

Cause TTK is already too low.

[Vanguard836]

That 1.2 Clan DHS tweak might make clan mechs will little tonnage available even less popular/worthwhile. Worth a try but it seems a bit heavy handed at the moment.

That being said, the majority of the changes look very interesting, can't wait to try them.

Edited by Vanguard836, 13 October 2015 - 06:40 PM.

[shopsmart]

I just realized with the info tech becoming more of a thing. Landslide defeats will be more land slidish. You need alive team mates to make things work for the info thing. More die results in that network falling apart. If there is 1 to 2 left on each team at the end of the round, it might just as well become a LONNNNGGGG game as the time ticks away. Something to consider PGI. I think this actually might work.

Work on the flamer...

[Tremendous Upside]

So nerfing max range on clan lasers doesn't immediately seem "awful" -- but this sort of balancing is going to smash the clan mechs that have limited pod space or energy-heavy hardpoints (like the Nova, Executioner, Gargoyle, etc). Not so much for the ones that people routinely @#$% about... Not sure it's going to have the impact they're expecting so much as it's just going to make it so the only clan mechs you ever see end up being DWFs, TWs, and SCRs. Oh nevermind. Nerf away

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Yeonne Greene, on 13 October 2015 - 05:47 PM, said:

Guys, they said 40% reduction to MAX RANGE on Clan lasers. That means you can hit things only 486 meters away for minimum damage as opposed to 810, but you still do full damage at 405 meters.

This is true, but that is an INSANE damage drop off for clan small lasers, 200m = full damage 241m = nothing.

[Sug]

IronClaws, on 13 October 2015 - 06:05 PM, said:

Mech weapons are designed to take out mechs as quickly as possible, why would anyone produce a (leathal) weapon that would do otherwise?

Armor is designed to make mechs last as long as possible, why would anyone produce armor that would do otherwise?

[Top Leliel]

I have to concur with Vanguard and Banky. I mainly play IS mechs, but I love my Blackhawk(Nova).

Nerfing laser range and external clan DHS is a huge nerf to the Nova. Forget the "OP clan mechs", the Nova is decidedly not OP, but would be hit hardest by this nerf. In fact it has a huge amount of quirks making it tougher. Not to mention the same weight and weapons loadout as the Crab but somehow double the in-game model size.

I do appreciate the ECM nerf, btw.

[Illya Ghost Bear]

Tennex, on 13 October 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

So light mechs will be the only mechs capable of running LRMs effectively now?
I like this iteration of information warfare much better than the last one. But you guys have GOT to find a way to decouple missile lock from information warfare. Because everytime you guys try to tinker visual targeting range based on class. Or target acquisition time based on class, LRM gets hurt.

I think everybody already knows my stance on using Radar as a balance point. (light mechs longer radar range etc.) That way, missiles wont be hurt.





Thats really awesome, considering lasers are almost all I see on clan builds. (though 40% nerf sounds a bit excessive at least on paper)

Clan weaponry never went through those years of extensive Laser vs. Ballistics vs. Missile power level balance Innersphere had. Probably because balance between clan weapons are hard to test in a public environment, with Innersphere weapons in the mix.

Though with the buff to Clan UAC recently, and now the nerf to clan lasers. Its definatley nice to see them try to put all clan weapons on the

dude...it's to test the mechanics.

[Kael Posavatz]

Also

"Lasers will not do full damage when striking a ‘Mech that is not target-locked from a range greater than 60% of the Laser’s Maximum Range."

Why do lasers need to be locked on to do full damage? Conversely, why do ballistic weapons not need to be locked on? Or, for that matter, why do LRMs not need to be locked?

[Tincan Nightmare]

Banky, on 13 October 2015 - 06:30 PM, said:

So nerfing max range on clan lasers doesn't immediately seem "awful" -- but this sort of balancing is going to smash the clan mechs that have limited pod space or energy-heavy hardpoints (like the Nova, Executioner, Gargoyle, etc). Not so much for the ones that people routinely @#$% about... Not sure it's going to have the impact they're expecting so much as it's just going to make it so the only clan mechs you ever see end up being DWFs, TWs, and SCRs. Oh nevermind. Nerf away

Well the damage ability of any build is still the same, the only difference is that you will have to be closer to inflict that damage. Since all quirks are being removed, there will be no IS mechs with super long range lasers, so both sides should have a similar engagement range (if its only the maximum range being reduced). Also that means no heat reduction, cooldown, or duration quirks as well. At the very least it should provide some important data between the current most dominant weapon system between the 2 factions.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Tennex, on 13 October 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

It certainly does hurt LRMs. All time for acquired data is being penalized based on range from your relay points

I use LRMs quite a bit and I'll gladly take longer lock on's for ecm no longer being a hard counter.

And aquired data taking longer if you're farther from enemies is a great mechanic, Imo

[Kael Posavatz]

Maximum range, Clan ER Large laser 888m (40% reduction)
Maximum range, IS ER Large Laser 1350m

No "Super long range lasers" due to weapon quirks on IS mechs.

Result: IS outranges Clans by 462 meters

Edited by Kael 17, 13 October 2015 - 06:44 PM.

[Wintersdark]

Vanguard836, on 13 October 2015 - 06:28 PM, said:

That 1.2 Clan DHS tweak might make clan mechs will little tonnage available even less popular/worthwhile. Worth a try but it seems a bit heavy handed at the moment.

That being said, the majority of the changes look very interesting, can't wait to try them.

Maybe, but thats still just heat cap. clan DHS will still have .15 cooling like IS ones. Same damage over time, more restricted burst.

[Kael Posavatz]

Question, if PGI wanted a 3025 game, why did they not make one?