572 replies to this topic

[Dagorlad13]

EAP10, on 13 October 2015 - 05:52 PM, said:

Interesting. I'll have to play this week to see the changes to TTK. Who knows, these possible changes may be better for the game, with the current meta.

Yep, so sickening to keep hearing people getting excited about this game turning into Robot Pillow Fight Online!

[Jin Ma]

Quote

Inner Sphere Single Heat Sinks

• Chassis-equipped Single Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 1.1 (up from 1).
  
• Engine-equipped Single Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 1.1 (up from 1).
  
• Chassis-equipped Single Heat Sink heat capacity increased to 1.1 (up from 1).

Inner Sphere Double Heat Sinks

• Chassis-equipped Double Heat Sink heat capacity increased to 1.5 (up from 1.4).

Clan Double Heat Sinks

• Chassis-equipped Clan Double Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 0.15 (up from 0.14).
  
• Chassis-equipped Clan Double Heat Sink heat capacity decreased to 1.2 (down from 1.4)

LOVE the heatsink changes. Wish they could bypass the PTR and go straight into patch. If they are lobbed in with these other changes, theres a chance it will get tossed out when they don't approve the entire change package.

[Sereglach]

Honestly, everything here looks pretty frigging awesome. I think I seriously heard the Heavens open in a choir when I saw the changes to ECM. That is an utter Godsend.

About the only thing I'd consider addressing right off the bat is I still believe that wanderer's suggestion of making weapon convergence require a solid target lock is one of the most superior solutions to the whole TIG affecting Firepower issue.

As far as Clan ER Lasers, I personally think ER tech should be one standard across the board. Take the IS ER Lasers, from TT, and use their values for both IS and Clan ER tech. Make one solid baseline for ranges, even if damage, heat, and beam duration are different.

As for sharing team targeting data and information: I think it's fantastic! Personally I think they should throw Command Consoles in the mix to make it so that each Command Console on your team decreases delays in target information sharing by 25% while they're at it. The Command Console NEEDS more to it than just being a "poor-man's-targeting-computer". That's one way to start giving it some solid functionality.

Lastly . . . Single Heat Sinks: While it's great they're getting some love . . . they need something that actually makes them competitive. I'm sure we'll see how this goes on PTS, but I think making SHS the only heat sinks that actually increase the heat cap is a good way to make them far more viable. Time and testing will tell, however. I think this is a nice start.

Regardless, it looks like there's going to be some amazing progress made towards rebalancing the game and making it far more balanced. I'm really looking forward to hopping onto the PTS tomorrow.

[EAP10]

IronClaws, on 13 October 2015 - 05:57 PM, said:

Yep, so sickening to keep hearing people getting excited about this game turning into Robot Pillow Fight Online!

It's at least better than AlphaStrikeWarrior Online, I mean come on, we're in giant robots. We shouldn't fall down and die from 2-3 LAZOR alphas.

[Top Leliel]

I hate to say it, but, adjusting Clan ER Lasers to such a drastically shorter range, and making Clan double heat sinks almost as bad as IS single heat sinks, is a bad idea.

The whole point of clan double heat sinks is that they are supposed to be an upgrade to Inner Sphere double heat sinks. Clans are supposed to have good tech: even if Inner Sphere gets buffed, clans shouldn't be nerfed so much that their trademark high tech stuff isn't good. Why not just make IS single heat sinks more viable by allowing the IS to take double engine heat sinks and single external heat sinks on the same mech?

The same goes for lasers, Clans having access to ER lasers of all sizes demonstrates their tech lead, why should this be taken away? Why not just handle it with quirks as before, but re-balancing mech by mech all over again with sensor range in mind this time?

Also, about sensor ranges: why not make large mechs easier to detect, rather then have them have weaker sensors? Keep all sensors generally the same except for quirks on dedicated scout mechs, but make the larger mechs detectable from a longer range because of their heavier weight? Just a thought.

[Navid A1]

Serious clarification needed:

Quote

Clan Laser Maximum Ranges

• Maximum Ranges for all Clan Lasers have been reduced by 40%.

Does this mean 40% of the actual max range or 40% out of the extra range?????!!!!!!
example: C-ERLL has 740 range and 1480m max range. which one is going to be the new range???

• 1480 x 0.6 = 888m, meaning only 148m extra range?? (you gotta be kidding me if that is the case)

or

• 740 + (740 x 0.6) = 1184 (which is kinda OK)

Edited by Navid A1, 13 October 2015 - 06:14 PM.

[DoctorDetroit]

Might be hard to create good game balance if you change too many variables at one time.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

I like these changes for the most part. However, I have a couple of suggestions/queries:

1 - Why do both the range nerf and the mechanic change to ECM? The mechanic change is exactly what needed to happen, but it should also be a sufficient first step in interative balancing.

2 - Why not try a fixed heat capacity at, say, 40 or 50, with a slightly more aggressive heat dissipation change to heat sinks? Increasing capacity while leaving dissipation mostly alone will just breed more high-alpha vomit builds, since you can fit more heat into a volley without reducing the number of volleys before shutdown. The approach you took to cDHS is the best of the bunch, but the number changes are very small and unlikely to be impactful.

[Wintersdark]

InnerSphereNews, on 13 October 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

• Maximum Ranges for all Clan Lasers have been reduced by 40%.

...

• Lasers will not do full damage when striking a ‘Mech that is not target-locked from a range greater than 60% of the Laser’s Maximum Range.

Just for clarity, when you say "Maximum Range" in these two points, do you mean actual maximum range, or optimal range?

So, for a Clan ER Large Laser, ranges are now: 740m optimal, 888m (from 1480m) maximum? Or are you reducing both ranges? So a Clan ERLL is 444m/888m? While the IS ERLL is 675m/1350m? Hell, the IS LL is 450m/900m; does that mean the Clan EXTENDED RANGE LARGE LASER is actually shorter ranged than the regular IS Large Laser?

But if you're ONLY reducing the maximum range (still having the CERLL have a shorter max range than the ISLL) and leaving the optimal range, does the later change mean you don't do maximum damage against unlocked targets with a CERLL at 533m? 888m*0.6=532.8m for max damage; so your actually doing less than max damage against unlocked targets even within the lasers optimal range?

[Dagorlad13]

EAP10, on 13 October 2015 - 06:01 PM, said:

It's at least better than AlphaStrikeWarrior Online, I mean come on, we're in giant robots. We shouldn't fall down and die from 2-3 LAZOR alphas.

Mech weapons are designed to take out mechs as quickly as possible, why would anyone produce a (leathal) weapon that would do otherwise? Unless you stand still the whole game, it is rare that you will die from 2 or 3 hits.

[Wintersdark]

Tennex, on 13 October 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

It certainly does hurt LRMs. All time for acquired data is being penalized based on range from your relay points

But you CAN lock targets that previously you'd have been unable to lock.

I'm still seeing this as a net buff to LRM's, which as you well know are largely useless at extreme range at the best of times anyways, even when there's no ECM.

On the other hand, now at moderate ranges (500-700m) LRM's will be able to get good locks on anyone, ECM or no. No ECM breaking locks = less times you need to reacquire.

I can't see this as a nerf to LRM's. Removing the ECM hard counter to target locks is a monsterously huge buff to the weapon. Longer locking times at extreme ranges is hardly comparable.

[Fle]

All hail glorious return of Majestic Gauss and Holy PPC cult!

[Jin Ma]

DoctorDetroit, on 13 October 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

Might be hard to create good game balance if you change too many variables at one time.

we shoudl listen to this guy, hes a doctor

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Tennex, on 13 October 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

So light mechs will be the only mechs capable of running LRMs effectively now?

Lights be the best suited to locating, and detecting the enemy.

As they should be.

Honestly, after reading this over a few times.... I can't find a single thing to ***** about.

And that's RARE.

*maybe the clan range nerf is too much... but I don't use clan weapons so I don't really know what the reduced range leaves them at.*

[Navid A1]

This one also needs some serious clarification... in detail

Quote

Lasers will not do full damage when striking a ‘Mech that is not target-locked from a range greater than 60% of the Laser’s Maximum Range

Greater than 60% of the laser's max range. In that range the laser will not do full damage already.

Edited by Navid A1, 13 October 2015 - 06:16 PM.

[Jman5]

Wintersdark, on 13 October 2015 - 05:53 PM, said:

Base sensor range right now is 850m.

It's 800 meters. I just double checked in training ground.

[Tennex]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 13 October 2015 - 06:03 PM, said:

1 - Why do both the range nerf and the mechanic change to ECM? The mechanic change is exactly what needed to happen, but it should also be a sufficient first step in interative balancing.

Yeah, there doesn't need to be both the mechanic change + range nerf.

I like the mechanic change, because ECM was never supposed to prevent missile lock in the first place.

[Navid A1]

Wintersdark, on 13 October 2015 - 06:04 PM, said:

Just for clarity, when you say "Maximum Range" in these two points, do you mean actual maximum range, or optimal range?

So, for a Clan ER Large Laser, ranges are now: 740m optimal, 888m (from 1480m) maximum? Or are you reducing both ranges? So a Clan ERLL is 444m/888m? While the IS ERLL is 675m/1350m? Hell, the IS LL is 450m/900m; does that mean the Clan EXTENDED RANGE LARGE LASER is actually shorter ranged than the regular IS Large Laser?

But if you're ONLY reducing the maximum range (still having the CERLL have a shorter max range than the ISLL) and leaving the optimal range, does the later change mean you don't do maximum damage against unlocked targets with a CERLL at 533m? 888m*0.6=532.8m for max damage; so your actually doing less than max damage against unlocked targets even within the lasers optimal range?

I'm kinda hoping for 740 + (740 x 0.6) kinda thing. 740 m optimal + 444 m max range

[Wintersdark]

Jman5, on 13 October 2015 - 06:12 PM, said:

It's 800 meters. I just double checked in training ground.

Thanks for that. It's pretty good, then, that basically Mediums keep current sensor range, Assault/Heavies see less, lights more. I'm good with that.

Add sensor range modules, mech quirks, etc. Interesting.

Navid A1, on 13 October 2015 - 06:13 PM, said:

I'm kinda hoping for 740 + (740 x 0.6) kinda thing. 740 m optimal + 444 m max range

Yeah, I'd be ok with that; maintaining the optimal and not HORRIFICALLY nerfing the overall max range. To have the ERLL have a shorter absolute maximum range than a regular, non-ER, IS Large Laser is absurd.

[Sug]

Navid A1, on 13 October 2015 - 06:09 PM, said:

This one also needs some serious clarification... in detail

Greater than 60% of the laser's max range. In that range the laser will not do full damage already.

Maybe the damage is further reduced.