572 replies to this topic

[Tesunie]

Diddi Doedel, on 13 October 2015 - 10:15 PM, said:

With the change in heatsinks... maybe, just maybe the ghostheat will be entirely removed.

I mean with the lore-wise superior clan double heatsinks being LESS effective than the bad IS copies, keeping ghost heat might be real overkill.

CDHS wouldn't be "less" effective. They actually would now be more effective at cooling, just less effective for increasing maximum heat capacity. AKA: Clan mechs will be cooling faster, but will hit shut down temperatures easier/sooner.

[Void Angel]

It seems like they're mixing the time scale - my reading is that both Inner Sphere and Clan cooling efficiencies are being adjusted to .015 - or 1.5/ten seconds - and the Clans' heat capacity bonus is being reduced to offset their smaller equipment size.

[Nothing Whatsoever]

Here's a quick cap from my Mechs,

[Threat Doc]

Personally, I think you guys are going backwards on a LOT of things in this PTS, but let's see how it pans out.

[Ialdabaoth]

I've always wished that all heat sinks increased cap by +1.0 per HS, regardless of type - and DHS increased dissipation by a full +0.20 per HS. This would actually make single heat sinks viable, in that you can fit more of them per critical space, allowing a much higher heat cap.

[Koniks]

Mystere, on 13 October 2015 - 10:13 PM, said:

IS 1.1 heat dissipation vs Clan 0.15. Am I misreading that?

Yes, that's obviously a typo.

[TheCharlatan]

This is intresting and worth testing.
Good work PGI: we needed both the testing and the clearer communications.
Two thumbs up!

[That Guy]

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Adjustments to I.S. and Clan Heat Sink values.

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Engine-equipped Single Heat Sink cooling rate increased to 1.1 (up from 1).

its a start. but bumping SHS by .1 is not going to help anyone. Engine SHS and DHS need to have the same value. bump engine SHS to 1.5+ and suddenly SHS are not suicideally bad. maybe some build might actually benefit from having SHS!

and looking over this it seems that the 2.0 engine DHS is still in . bring down engine DHS numbers, and then increase the mounted DHS numbers a little bit to compensate.

but you get points for finally addressing it

Edited by That Guy, 13 October 2015 - 11:21 PM.

[Kmieciu]

FupDup, on 13 October 2015 - 07:12 PM, said:

Actually the dissipation is equal. 0.15 for DHS of both factions.

On live server the dissipation is equal (0.14 heat per second for outside DHS, 0.2 for engine DHS)

On test server clans will have more dissipation (0.15 for outside DHS, 0.2 for engine DHS), vs IS: (0.14 for outside DHS, 0.2 for engine DHS).

But IS will have more capacity (0.15 for outside DHS, 0.2 for engine DHS) vs Clan (0.12 for outside DHS, 0.2 for engine DHS)

I think this is a GREAT change. I'm used to running a 6xERML Hellbringer with 31 DHS and it had a 95.3 fricking points of heat capacity, while the "dreaded" 6xLL STK-4N has only 76,8 points.

It was the HEAT CAPACITY that encouraged 2xLPL 5xERML laser vomit. It makes any other playstyle mostly irrelevant. Right now, at 600 meters nothing comes close to that combo. On a Timber, that's 61 damage at 464 meters. (TC+ERML module) for 50 heat. And 23 CDHS used to give you 81.8 heat cap.

1.2 seconds to deal damage, 10.8 seconds behind cover to dissipate heat. That makes the gameplay extremely stagnant.

Edited by Kmieciu, 13 October 2015 - 11:19 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

As a small advice for the next PTS - session, please provide "figures" don't say just 40% reduction - don't say reduction or buff at all - people are not able to use a calculator.

The read IS ....... buff,
Clan.....reduction

Pitchforkes, Shitstorm, Cry, Whine..... not even thinking twice - a pity but its the truth

[NocturnalBeast]

Karl Streiger, on 13 October 2015 - 11:24 PM, said:

As a small advice for the next PTS - session, please provide "figures" don't say just 40% reduction - don't say reduction or buff at all - people are not able to use a calculator.

The read IS ....... buff,
Clan.....reduction

Pitchforkes, Shitstorm, Cry, Whine..... not even thinking twice - a pity but its the truth

Ah, but if you look closely, it IS Clan...reduction, IS...buff. PGI should have never introduced the Clans, Jordan Weisman himself said that they were a mistake. IGP just pushed the Clans because they knew they would be cash cows, since everyone (myself included) thought that they would be powerful like they are in lore.

[PFC Carsten]

PGI, please listen!

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Any actions you take inside the PTS client, such as spending MC/C-Bills or customizing your 'Mechs, will not carry over to your Live account.

This will severely limit the amount of data you're going to be able to gather from the PTS.
You should consider at the very least to transfer the C-Bills earned in the test phase to the regular account after the PTS closes. Otherwise only few people will waive their earnings and invest their time in order to do your work for you.

[Too Much Love]

Vicious circle of clan/IS nerfs and the road to nowhere.

Its the same dull stuff forever: new packs, new nerfs, new meta.

No real development, no story, no meaning, no goals. Sad.

[Kmieciu]

Ed Steele, on 13 October 2015 - 11:28 PM, said:

Ah, but if you look closely, it IS Clan...reduction, IS...buff. PGI should have never introduced the Clans, Jordan Weisman himself said that they were a mistake. IGP just pushed the Clans because they knew they would be cash cows, since everyone (myself included) thought that they would be powerful like they are in lore.

If PGI truly removes ALL weapons quirks then Timbers & Stormcows will get a nice net buff. All those laser duration penalties - gone. Heat dissipation - better. Heat capacity - lower, but still good enough for an alpha strike without overheating. Maximum range - worse, but ERML effective range still stays @464 meters (TC+modules) while the IS lose all the ML/LL/LPL quirks that allowed those weapons to compete with clans.

For a STK-4N, that means 10% less range, 15% more heat and 15% longer cooldown. BLR-1S looses 25% range and gains 10% heat. Thunderbolt-5SS looses 25% range and gains 25% heat

Get used to the new weapon ranges IS ML@ 297 meters IS LPL@438 meters , IS LL@495 meters.
Every mech that can boat ERML will be able to out-trade IS LL/LPL, while all IS ML boats can do is to sit behind cover and wait for brawl. But in a brawl, once the fight gets inside 200 meters, the Clans will still have the upper hand with ERSL and CSPL... ML will have a narrow window (220-270 meters) where they are more effective than clantech.

I will thoroughly test those changes, but it's hard not to notice that IS got hit hard with the quirk removal. Way harder than the 40% max range nerf to clan lasers.

Edited by Kmieciu, 13 October 2015 - 11:49 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Chewing over the proposed changes.

Even the stuff I'm 'iffy' about I'm intrigued by and want to give a solid shot. Please leave this up for a while - like a week or more. There's a lot of potential nuance to these changes and I'd like to give that the potential it deserves.

The reduced damage on unlocked targets.... I'd still rather see that affect convergence of multiple weapons fired at once (or within 0.5 of each other) since reducing laser damage is just so.... odd....

However I can actually see where that offsets the changes in Clan max range on lasers being reduced and indirectly buffs IW stuff significantly.

The concept and its results on gameplay deserve involved testing and that'll take a while, and practice. Again, please live it up a good long while.

[Karl Streiger]

Ed Steele, on 13 October 2015 - 11:28 PM, said:

Ah, but if you look closely, it IS Clan...reduction, IS...buff. PGI should have never introduced the Clans, Jordan Weisman himself said that they were a mistake. IGP just pushed the Clans because they knew they would be cash cows, since everyone (myself included) thought that they would be powerful like they are in lore.

Fact is: the so called DHS Nerf -is nothing... its nice but we are talking about 2 points of heat threshold, for a 20DHS Mech.
And the laser - well the laser:
who said the IS ER Large Laser is better - i call it BS. Even if you include the burn duration and normalize both on 1sec basis.
The Clan ER Large Laser deals more damage up to 1000m as his predecessor of the IS.
After 1000m the CERLAS will losse more power - but at 1000m we are already talking about 3dmg in a 1sec burn or 4.5dmg in a 1.5sec burn

[Mazzyplz]

someone clear this up for me;
so the shoehorning of roles for each variant from the last pts is gone? and the mind boggling negative quirks???

if so... HALLELUYAH!!!!!!!

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IGP just pushed the Clans because they knew they would be cash cows, since everyone (myself included) thought that they would be powerful like they are in lore.

they CAN be if you guys would support my suggestion;

give clan mechs tunnel vision - in the form of enhanced imaging.

this would also make it so that clanners sort of fight like zellbrigen just by the mechanics alone.

http://mwomercs.com/...clan-rebalance/

it is a form of indirect balancing; not direct like simply nerfing clan laser 40%

Edited by Mazzyplz, 13 October 2015 - 11:51 PM.

[Sarlic]

Im worried that gauss plus ppc will make it even stronger. Just like now, but more boating in these two weapons.

[Xhaleon]

I have a lot of opinions about the experimental changes described here but there is one that really stands out as strange to me:

• The Health of all Equipment and Weapons has been increased to 15 (up from 10).

What was the impetus for this change? The destruction of equipment before the entire mech section is destroyed is a very occasional occurrence; even continuous shotgun/missile fire on an exposed body part rarely triggers component destruction unlike what would happen in the source material of this game.

As far as I am aware, Smurfy's stats are datamined from the source and they show that the current health of ammunition slots are also at 10 points. Part of the reason why nobody uses CASE is because exploding ammunition is such a rare event that some newer players still don't know that it can even happen. Now they're are proposing to increase the health of every item (excepting Gauss Rifles I guess) to 15. Why?

Edited by Xhaleon, 13 October 2015 - 11:57 PM.

[Darlith]

Xhaleon, on 13 October 2015 - 11:57 PM, said:

I have a lot of opinions about the experimental changes described here but there is one that really stands out as strange to me:

• The Health of all Equipment and Weapons has been increased to 15 (up from 10).

What was the impetus for this change? The destruction of equipment before the entire mech section is destroyed is a very occasional occurrence; even continuous shotgun/missile fire on an exposed body part rarely triggers component destruction unlike what would happen in the source material of this game.


As far as I am aware, Smurfy's stats are datamined from the source and they show that the current health of ammunition slots are also at 10 points. Part of the reason why nobody uses CASE is because exploding ammunition is such a rare event that some newer players still don't know that it can even happen. Now they're are proposing to increase the health of every item (excepting Gauss Rifles I guess) to 15. Why?

A guess? Because many people have mentioned the tendancy of weapons, especially ones like the ac/20 to go poof as soon as the armor is gone. So they are testing higher durability of the items themselves as an alternative to just upping the armor on a bunch of mechs.