572 replies to this topic

[Mystere]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 14 October 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

They can't do 10 v 12 due to technical limitations. That means they have to balance clan vs IS and it's not the end of the world.

Seriously, just what "technical" limitations are those beyond the obvious "we don't want to do it" kind?

[SgtMagor]

assault mechs will not have as good sensor range than lighter mechs? what about Command designated mechs, or mechs that have the command console, ECM, and BAP. I'm really not understanding, since an Atlas is supposed to have a Satellite dish on its head.

[Wootin87]

Tennex, on 13 October 2015 - 05:55 PM, said:

It certainly does hurt LRMs. All time for acquired data is being penalized based on range from your relay points

Hmmm.... Maybe PGI is making way to Arrow V. That would explain the light's ability to have better targeting than the big boys.

[Shredhead]

SgtMagor, on 14 October 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

assault mechs will not have as good sensor range than lighter mechs? what about Command designated mechs, or mechs that have the command console, ECM, and BAP. I'm really not understanding, since an Atlas is supposed to have a Satellite dish on its head.

You get the extra sensor range of the command console and the BAP?

[Goose]

Which works how, now? +200m each? +20%?

[NocturnalBeast]

Kmieciu, on 14 October 2015 - 12:42 AM, said:

How nice of you to admit that you like pay 2 win. I hope your balance suggestions will be ignored from now on.
BTW. I bought all my clan mechs with C-Bills hard-earned in an unfair fight.

No, I like Clan Mechs that are Clan Mechs. And when I play as Ed Steele, I use IS Mechs. If you bought all your mechs with Cbills, then good for you, but you did not earn those Cbills in an "unfair fight", unless you consider fighting against more skilled opponents "unfair"? And there are always going to be imbalances in player skill, just like in real life; people are not all equal.

[PurpleNinja]

MWO: A Vaguely Resembling BattleTech Game.
Why not just create a new hybrid tech for both IS and Clan?

[Helene de Montfort]

All these changes look interesting...

Just one thought... The sensor range by class. It's on the PTS for testing its effects, but wouldn't it make sense if it was limited not by mech class, but by engine rating?

First, by making bigger engines easier to detect than smaller ones.

Second, by making interferences from own engine bigger with bigger engine, thus reducing own sensor range?

[Goose]

Patching naow!

[Pihoqahiak]

Jack Shayu Walker, on 14 October 2015 - 12:42 PM, said:

They can't do 10 v 12 due to technical limitations. That means they have to balance clan vs IS and it's not the end of the world.

That is NOT true at all. They chose not to use that option because it was more difficult to implement ensuring that enough players will actually choose to play the horde/swarm of lower technology level mechs against higher technology level mechs. A very valid concern, but it is most definitely not because implementing code to have asymmetrical team matching is impossible to do.

[C E Dwyer]

So a big 100 ton Atlas with lots of space for things like sensors, infact it was well known for having lots of them, including a satalite link, can't see, as far as a 20 ton mech with hardly any room for sensors..

Sure your trying to balance the game, and in many cases logic gets bent double in doing so, but this is the first time I've seen it thrown out the window.

The Catapult, a mech which was based around the LRM with one exception can now only fire it's missiles 75% of their range..think about it..

The Ostscout, a mech that was a heavy sensor user, before the Raven and ECM were even in table top rules, was known for having very few weapons, because the sensor package took up to much space and tonnage again think about it.

So make a base line for every mech and make sensors and ecm take up space and tonnage, in the case of ECM more of both

This will have the effect of giving everyone a choice of long range sensors or weapons, if people want to see a long way they have to sacrifice d.p.s and alpha, or ammo it will also increase T.T.K

It will allow brawlers to brawl, snipers to snipe, and scout mechs to scout, and get rid off some of the overkill meta builds using a far simpler method than this monster of confusion you seem to have set your heart on.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Sure, lets nerf the Clans again... heatsinks... clan lasers... whatever...

Tell you what, since IS tech and clans are better, their tech is better, why not we swap? Clans use IS tech and mechs while IS has the other way around. Since in the Lore clans are SUPOSED to have better tech... that would make sense!!!

Tell you one thing, why wont we change all to IS? At least we will use all the best tech and mechs... right?

Damn... to play this game there should have been at least a bit of lore knoledge, so people could understand that clan tech is SUPOSED to be better!
Want to balance it? Sure, lets put 10vs12, like you tested on PTS a year ago! Give more incentive to play CW, like wiining a planet would give you resources or better lasers that can almost match the clan ones! So many options!!!
Just unnerf clan tech once and for all! put it back the way it was!

[Pihoqahiak]

Hardin4188, on 14 October 2015 - 12:55 PM, said:

Meh, worse things have happened. I always got annoyed when people weren't targeting anyway. This will encourage people to actually press R and call out targets.

You can hope that, but experience has proven that a large amount of players will just plain never grasp the benefits of targeting since they haven't done it by now. It is another level of complication and convolution that will increase the gaps between tier levels of players. I'm not saying that adding some depth to game mechanics is bad, just pointing out that it's very unreliable to assume you can change some of the player base's habits and gameplay with some of these changes. It's best not to have any illusions that PUGing is going to be any less painful with these changes, it will be much more painful.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Mystere, on 14 October 2015 - 12:57 PM, said:

Seriously, just what "technical" limitations are those beyond the obvious "we don't want to do it" kind?

Matchmaker issues, I assume.

[Domenoth]

Just checked out the build. ER Lasers (Even IS ones) appear to have their range beyond optimum reduced by 40%.

So claims that cERLL would have range of 884 are false.
Claims that ISERLL would have greater range than cERLL are false.

Can people please calm down now?

Edited by Domenoth, 14 October 2015 - 02:42 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

Domenoth, on 14 October 2015 - 02:38 PM, said:

Just checked out the build. ER Lasers (Even IS ones) appear to have their range beyond optimum reduced by 40%.

So claims that cERLL would have range of 884 are false.
Claims that ISERLL would have greater range than cERLL are false.

Can people please calm down now?

so taking erLL for the IS is pointless now? might as well stick to LL?

[PraetorGix]

FORTY% decrease in maximum range?
Clan double heat sinks are now WORSE than IS? What???? da???? Fu*k????

I know those are not locked-in numbers, but you know what is worrying? That these people chose to use these ridiculous values as a starting point, because, chances are very high that the final numbers will fall quite close to these.
So sad.

[Dirkdaring]

[color=#00FFFF]The only way for an opponent to override that protection is to counter it with a TAG laser, NARC beacon, PPC charge, BAP coverage, or with an ECM suite in 'Counter' mode.[/color]

You forgot the most major counter of them all, UAVs. How in gods name did that get overlooked?

[Domenoth]

Mazzyplz, on 14 October 2015 - 02:47 PM, said:

so taking erLL for the IS is pointless now? might as well stick to LL?

ISERLL = 675 Optimum to 1080 Max
ISLL = 450 Optimum to 900 Max

If you think 225 meters Optimum isn't worth 1 extra heat then yes.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Spadejack, on 14 October 2015 - 02:04 PM, said:

Sure, lets nerf the Clans again... heatsinks... clan lasers... whatever...

Tell you what, since IS tech and clans are better, their tech is better, why not we swap? Clans use IS tech and mechs while IS has the other way around. Since in the Lore clans are SUPOSED to have better tech... that would make sense!!!

Tell you one thing, why wont we change all to IS? At least we will use all the best tech and mechs... right?

Damn... to play this game there should have been at least a bit of lore knoledge, so people could understand that clan tech is SUPOSED to be better!
Want to balance it? Sure, lets put 10vs12, like you tested on PTS a year ago! Give more incentive to play CW, like wiining a planet would give you resources or better lasers that can almost match the clan ones! So many options!!!
Just unnerf clan tech once and for all! put it back the way it was!

Again, think about this from the IS players perspective. If it takes 2 or 3 IS mechs to take on a single Clan mech, who is going to play IS? Yah there are some players saying they would be willing to play it that way, but how many would actually keep playing as cannon fodder? How fun would it be to launch into a match, do some damage to an uber powerful Clanner, and then get blown away hoping that you did enough damage that your teammates can capitalize on to bring him down before they die too? The only goal for a Clan win would be to get a quick 2 or 3 kills, then mop up an IS force that no longer has a numerical advantage and has weaker mechs. People forget that it wasn't just numbers that limited the Clans in TT, but also Clan rules of combat, where they tried to 'duel' their opponents and wouldn't combine fire on targets. In MWO, the Clan team will easily focus fire and just mow thru the IS team.

Look at how the light queue in matches is always so low. People flock to the heavy and assault mechs, because they want the more powerful unit, and don't want to use a more fragile/weaker machine. If Clans are just made OP as from lore, the majority of the player base will just start using Clan mechs, hurting wait times as the IS team takes longer to fill up (especially as it must be larger than the Clan team).