99 replies to this topic

[Kraftwerkedup]

The whole "lasers arbitrarily do less damage if youre not in a red square" **** is pretty freaking ridiculous. Ghost Heat v.2. Another unexplained mechanic because PGI cant get its head screwed on straight and come up with a solution that isnt hammer and anvil.

Other than that...im fairly pleased.

McGrals changes were better imho...but we'll get there....we'll get there...

Edited by Kraftwerkedup, 14 October 2015 - 09:58 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Stah, on 14 October 2015 - 09:54 AM, said:

So, good-bye Battletech, hello "just another pew-pew FPS"?
If it is so, I'm out - point me the exit. "I'm too old for this s... hit" ©

This has never been a BattleTech game, and has always been Shooty Stompy Robots.


Having OP Clams is a terrible choice. PGI has just been rather bad at balancing everything. Cue Flamers worthless for 3 years, MG nerfs, Giganerfs that ruin weapons, rather than bring them down a touch.

[Kraftwerkedup]

Im pretty confident they just wrecked my Wubshee...

But thats not a bad thing. That mech has always flown under the radar, yet is ridiculously OP. Doing 180+ damage in 10 seconds is just crazy considering its 63 PPD, and not your usual DPS monster.

Im sure theyll make a 95 tonner bad at "Infotech" so I expect thats going to be a big nerf to Wubboats. Shame. IS Pulse lasers were finally in a great place.

Edited by Kraftwerkedup, 14 October 2015 - 10:02 AM.

[Mcgral18]

Kraftwerkedup, on 14 October 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

McGrals changes were better imho...but we'll get there....we'll get there...

I think we both know, that's never going to happen.

I can only hope something happens. This might be something, but probably not.

[Kraftwerkedup]

In its entirety? Yeah never.

I do hold out hope that if you keep ramming it down their throats over the course of the play tests, we might actually get Flamers and MGs fixed. Seems clear they arent focused on that at all, and will totally ignore them yet again.

I gots meh Fraps ready. Im down to clown with MGs and Flamers and make videos. Thats apparently all they listen to lol.

[NextGame]

So notes in summary:

Unnecessarily increasing component health.
Reducing Clan Laser Range to appease the "boohoo clan mechs" whiners and to further remove any variation from gameplay whasoever.
Change heatsink values instead of, you know, remove ghost heat, which was a terrible idea with a terrible implementation and needs to be long gone.
Break ECM so that it is pointless to take it, furthering the PGI crusade against useful game mechanics and even the shallowest gameplay depth.
Mess around with sensors in ways that make their functionality as confusing as possible along lines that no one asked for and no one needs.

Have PGI seen their last $ from me? It's looking very likely at the moment.

Edited by NextGame, 14 October 2015 - 10:35 AM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

how many times have you said that ending line nextgame?

[Equalizer]

The way I understand these changes:

1. ECM - the carrier still gets target lock invulnerability as currently, but mechs in the bubble can be locked. We'll see how this plays out, but looks like welcome change.

2. Heat Sinks changes - BOTH factions get a buff overall, although clans get the better one IMO. Lowering their heat cap is barely noticeable - 10 external heatsinks give heat cap of 64 now, will be down to 62 with changes. They however get 7% increased dissipation, which is a huge buff considering the amount of extra heat sinks they can pack.

3. Laser nerfs - clans still would have big advantage except in extreme falloff ranges due to ditching all current IS quirks (and even with those they'd compete just fine). Coupled with the target lock change, this might even encourage some build variety, which the game sorely needs.

The rest of the changes seem interesting enough, although not huge game changers at this point. Again, let's see how it all turns out first.

Edited by Equalizer, 14 October 2015 - 11:05 AM.

[NextGame]

BLOOD WOLF, on 14 October 2015 - 10:50 AM, said:

how many times have you said that ending line nextgame?

None in recent memory, but you are welcome to fish through my post history if you like.

How many times have you blindly white knighted for PGI? Many many times and counting

Edited by NextGame, 14 October 2015 - 11:09 AM.

[stjobe]

Stah, on 14 October 2015 - 09:39 AM, said:

Said like you really have no understanding, what the Clan Technology is.

You must not have read any of my posts before. I can appreciate that, but please know that I have a very good understanding of most things BattleTech - including the Clans. And for all I personally think Clans are powercreep cheeze and don't allow them in my own campaigns, I do understand that others love just that about them, and I do understand what they were meant to be - in the TT, where each player commands a lance or more of 'mechs and where sides can be balanced by numbers and BV.

But in a one-'mech-per-player, equal-sides, no respawn PvP game like MWO, we just can't have one side with 'mechs that totally outclass anything the other side can bring. It just does not work.

Had PGI had the chops to pull off 10v12, 5v8, we might have had it, maybe. But in 12v12 (and the perhaps upcoming 4v4 or 8v8)? Not doable. For a number of very good reasons, faction balance and fair play being just two.

So please, for your own sanity if nothing else, forget about TT's Clan vs IS balance; you'll never see that in MWO.

Edit: P.S. What Mcgra18's "For balance. Corerule ignore" refers to.

Edited by stjobe, 14 October 2015 - 11:19 AM.

[Kraftwerkedup]

Seriously StJobe and Bishop Steiner are our resident Battletech Experts.

Though that crazy KraftySOT guy totally knows Megamek better than either of them.

Edited by Kraftwerkedup, 14 October 2015 - 11:26 AM.

[stjobe]

Kraftwerkedup, on 14 October 2015 - 11:25 AM, said:

Seriously StJobe and Bishop Steiner are our resident Battletech Experts.

I think you're missing quite a few names from that list...

There's plenty of old hands like me on these boards, who have been playing BattleTech since 1985-86 or so and loving every minute of it. Many of us have also tried just about every digital conversion there's been, from Crescent Hawk's Inception to MWO, read at least some of the 100+ novels, and have several yards of shelf-space taken up with BT books and other products.

[Kraftwerkedup]

Revenge and Inception were such great games.

And surely theres more I didnt list, you two just come to mind as always Johnny on the Spot with the Btech Table Top info. From how Neuro helmets work, to who manufactures the best Medium laser. You guys are on top of it.

[Anyone00]

Just to differentiate the tech bases it would be interesting if all Clan weapons' optimal ranges were reduced by ~35% but had the three step system ballistics use to have (i.e. at 2x optimal range: 50% damage ;; at 3x optimal range: it finally just reaches 0%).

[LORD ORION]

Mcgral18, on 13 October 2015 - 06:19 PM, said:

Lasers will not do full damage when striking a ‘Mech that is not target-locked from a range greater than 60% of the Laser’s Maximum Range.

Dafuq...

Sounds like it's a "MWOesque" game mechanic move towards table top, where you shoot at a target locked by a C3 capable mech, and you shoot at the C3 mech's distance.

In other words, if you're locked by a scout in MWO (better sensors), you'll get hurt its by firesupport. (worse sensors)

I give that a big +1

Edited by LORD ORION, 14 October 2015 - 12:31 PM.

[Stah]

stjobe, on 14 October 2015 - 11:15 AM, said:

You must not have read any of my posts before. I can appreciate that, but please know that I have a very good understanding of most things BattleTech - including the Clans.

Indeed. That's, why I said "like you really have no" - because, you HAVE and DO understand.

Quote

And for all I personally think Clans are powercreep cheeze and don't allow them in my own campaigns,

The first thing I thought from the MWO CBT - 'give us Level 1 and Age of War only'.

Quote

But in a one-'mech-per-player, equal-sides, no respawn PvP game like MWO, we just can't have one side with 'mechs that totally outclass anything the other side can bring. It just does not work.
Had PGI had the chops to pull off 10v12, 5v8, we might have had it, maybe.

Ok, it would be another simple and correct option in addition to many more, which were buried. However, PGI prefer to pull the sliders up and down rather than balance by BV/quantity etc. Cannot blame them - and I don't. But all I see now is IS emissary meeting to bury the Clan Technology. Ok, let's bury it, but again - totally once and for all. Split factions, isolate Clans and forget about them till 'the time will come'.

I wash my hands of this discussion. I said what I have to. Playing my first TT BT game in Soviet Union from 1987 (wasn't it surprise for most of you?), I really thought, that I'll see BT/MW PvP before I'm too old. I've seen it, but no good. Too pity.

Edited by Stah, 14 October 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[Mcgral18]

Kraftwerkedup, on 14 October 2015 - 10:11 AM, said:

In its entirety? Yeah never.

I do hold out hope that if you keep ramming it down their throats over the course of the play tests, we might actually get Flamers and MGs fixed. Seems clear they arent focused on that at all, and will totally ignore them yet again.

I gots meh Fraps ready. Im down to clown with MGs and Flamers and make videos. Thats apparently all they listen to lol.

Don't forget Twitter; pretty sure that's the only place that has significantly changed PGIs mind in recent time.

[Wadesin]

Dont fix what aint broke . Love the changes each round is like learning a new game keeps me going:)

[oldradagast]

Kraftwerkedup, on 14 October 2015 - 09:57 AM, said:

The whole "lasers arbitrarily do less damage if youre not in a red square" **** is pretty freaking ridiculous. Ghost Heat v.2. Another unexplained mechanic because PGI cant get its head screwed on straight and come up with a solution that isnt hammer and anvil.

Other than that...im fairly pleased.

McGrals changes were better imho...but we'll get there....we'll get there...

This goofy laser-nerf with ghost damage and all the rest just delays the alpha strike a bit and - ironically - punishes some mechs for trying to hit back if they don't have a lock. But once the lock is there, the entire pinpoint alpha strike can still hit for full effect.

A variable cone of fire is the only logical solution. This would end the long-range pinpoint alphas, and this solution makes sense (unlike "ghost damage"), feels similar to tabletop, and is within the game engine's abilities since we already have a cone of fire when using MASC, jumpjets, and machine guns.

Finally, info-tech can just be tightening up the cone a bit when you have a lock, and that's it. No need for blind mechs, ghost damage, and other silliness.

[Kali Rinpoche]

I've got no problem with the clan range nerfs. Clan tech, followed by super stupid WoB stuff, ruined TT for me. But, this isn't table top. I for one will enjoy not being hit by 30 ERLL from silly ranges in CW. I do think that a slight reduction in beam duration is in order for clans weapons if this holds. I mostly brawl, so the new targeting mechanic won't have a lot of effect on me. I do think its silly and overly cumbersome. The sky is falling stuff gets old.

The tier one movement nerfs bothered more than anything in this round.

Edited by Kali Rinpoche, 14 October 2015 - 06:21 PM.