127 replies to this topic

[Felbombling]

Kira Onime, on 13 October 2015 - 06:23 PM, said:

But didn't you know? Lasers need a red box to increase their damage otherwise they're too stupid to know they're hitting an enemy.

That still makes the average thermos the most advanced piece of technology created by man. It keeps your hot stuff hot and your cold stuff cold... but how does it know?!

[Sergeant Soy]

FupDup, on 13 October 2015 - 06:21 PM, said:

Lasers doing less damage against unlocked targets at certain ranges is especially derpy.

I think it is not that 'derpy'. In every RL situation I can think of lasers are optimized by some optics. Lock on improves their efficiency in BT. Why not?

[sycocys]

oldradagast, on 14 October 2015 - 03:23 AM, said:

The problem is lasers are one of the few viable weapons in the game:
- PPC's are too hot, have horrible hit-reg, and have an idiotic minimum range that gets you killed... OR they are WAY too hot
- Autocannons are only worth using either in groups of 2 or 3 (smaller ones) or 1 big one, and many mechs lack the hardpoints or tonnage for that
- Missiles are useless: SRM's are slow, short range ,and don't register hits properly, LRM's are easily countered, and SSRM's are only good for Clans and only against fragile mechs because of the auto-scatter in damage
- LBX's are like autocannons, but weaker thanks to damage scatter and questionable hit-reg
- Flamers are useless

So, that leaves us with lasers and Gauss Rifles. To "fix" this, they are going to neuter all lasers, which will kill lower-tonnage mechs that can't carry anything else and just make the bigger ones use Gauss Rifles even more... and this doesn't fix any of the above problems I listed.

First iteration and it actually shows that they got the message that they need to be re-balancing the weapons AND seem to actually be interested in taking some steps to do so.

Believe it or not this is actually a very good first step, especially considering how they have totally ignored weapon balance for 2 years now and there are all sorts of variable that can go into changing how weapons work to find different kinds of balance that make the different weapons even in the same type have advantages and disadvantages - especially when you combine them with the info tech stuff they are trying to get going.

Clan weapons will still have the range advantage - hands down. They are just limiting the extreme range advantage that they have because of the current max range mechanic, really not a big deal.

Targeting/info sharing/less damage for not having info and fighting outside of you optimal range - forces team work and forces players to put more thought in to their approach towards engaging their enemy. If you ask me its fk'n brilliant since players themselves can't be bothered to play the game in anything other than the absolute minimal effort methods.

It will also make modules not named Radar Dep and Seismic useful again. Get yourself some adv sensors. Getting position with hill climb might actually be somewhat useful if people can't shred you with erLL from 1500m.
Buy a bap. Sacrifice some speed for a CC.

Sorry mate, I'm usually hyper critical of PGI and this kind of stuff - but this is actually the most thought through they ever attempted it and I can actually see many improvements to the game coming out of taking things in this direction if players can take a step back and realize the entire weapons systems and game itself needs to be nerfed back down so that it can be developed into something resembling BT/MW and inject some thought into your loadout and battle tactics.

People should be hopping on test and helping guide them to ways to make the weapons balance better across the board, helping them develop out the info war stuff so it makes sense and actually makes the game something more representative of its IP rather than just CoD with mechs.

Edited by sycocys, 14 October 2015 - 05:57 AM.

[The Ratfink]

sycocys, on 14 October 2015 - 05:55 AM, said:

First iteration and it actually shows that they got the message that they need to be re-balancing the weapons AND seem to actually be interested in taking some steps to do so.

Believe it or not this is actually a very good first step, especially considering how they have totally ignored weapon balance for 2 years now and there are all sorts of variable that can go into changing how weapons work to find different kinds of balance that make the different weapons even in the same type have advantages and disadvantages - especially when you combine them with the info tech stuff they are trying to get going.

Clan weapons will still have the range advantage - hands down. They are just limiting the extreme range advantage that they have because of the current max range mechanic, really not a big deal.

Targeting/info sharing/less damage for not having info and fighting outside of you optimal range - forces team work and forces players to put more thought in to their approach towards engaging their enemy. If you ask me its fk'n brilliant since players themselves can't be bothered to play the game in anything other than the absolute minimal effort methods.

It will also make modules not named Radar Dep and Seismic useful again. Get yourself some adv sensors. Getting position with hill climb might actually be somewhat useful if people can't shred you with erLL from 1500m.
Buy a bap. Sacrifice some speed for a CC.

Sorry mate, I'm usually hyper critical of PGI and this kind of stuff - but this is actually the most thought through they ever attempted it and I can actually see many improvements to the game coming out of taking things in this direction if players can take a step back and realize the entire weapons systems and game itself needs to be nerfed back down so that it can be developed into something resembling BT/MW and inject some thought into your loadout and battle tactics.

People should be hopping on test and helping guide them to ways to make the weapons balance better across the board, helping them develop out the info war stuff so it makes sense and actually makes the game something more representative of its IP rather than just CoD with mechs.

Hmmm where did you come from? A well thought out and intelligent post, you don't belong on a game forum, burn the heretic!!!!

[Illya Ghost Bear]

oldradagast, on 14 October 2015 - 03:29 AM, said:

But a cone of fire does. A small cone of fire that tightens when you have a target lock is the easy way to do this. The game engine can already handle it - you see it when using MASC, jump jets, and machine guns - but instead we're going to get "ghost damage" on lasers... why?!

Agreed. And I've tried to get this idea through time and again. But both Russ, and the Church of Skill people throw a hissy at the mere mention of CoF.

[SirNotlag]

I personally love the proposed changes and I hope they all make it into the final game.

I personally love the proposed changes and I hope they all make it into the final game.

[crashlogic]

Im intrigued by the changes, and not just because i think laser vomit is a bad meta, but i think this will make people think more, it makes scouting more useful, and lrm boats more practical.

[JernauM]

I suspect the trend of newer maps having reduced visibility and increased clutter is also part of the info-tech push. I would not be surprised if nice, clean maps like HPG, where you can readily see enemy mechs, are eventually phased out or revamped.

[MeiSooHaityu]

JernauM, on 14 October 2015 - 10:16 AM, said:

I suspect the trend of newer maps having reduced visibility and increased clutter is also part of the info-tech push. I would not be surprised if nice, clean maps like HPG, where you can readily see enemy mechs, are eventually phased out or revamped.

New HPG Manifold! Now with Space Trees!

A special breed of tree that grows in vacuum with no need of pesky water or atmosphere. These space trees grow everywhere on the map.

[NextGame]

The changes are all bad, and PGI should feel bad for working on this when there are so many actual features they could be implementing, rather than working towards chopping the gameplay mechanics down to the shallowest most homogenised possible iteration that they could come up with.

Edited by NextGame, 14 October 2015 - 10:37 AM.

[Foxfire]

It is only 3 and a half years late. Remember when Information warfare' was one of the pillars of gameplay?

[Rhaythe]

MeiSooHaityu, on 14 October 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

A special breed of tree that grows in vacuum with no need of pesky water or atmosphere. These space trees grow everywhere on the map.

If it's worth saying, it's worth taking a long time to say it... and in a vacuum, where no sound travels, we Ents talk for a very. Long. Time...

[Apathy Enrage]

NextGame, on 14 October 2015 - 10:33 AM, said:

The changes are all bad, and PGI should feel bad for working on this when there are so many actual features they could be implementing, rather than working towards chopping the gameplay mechanics down to the shallowest most homogenised possible iteration that they could come up with.

I really hope all 1500 of your posts aren't as completely idotic as this... right NOW MWO is the shallowest iteration possible... This adds depth... Go play CoD you crybaby

[Weeny Machine]

I think these changes are very interesting. If they do not drop the ball we could get a new depth of gameplay. The range change on lasers looks also great. It will help brawlers.

The ECM damage reduction thing gets me a bit worried. However, it depends on how much damage is reduced. The problem is that people might switch to streak systems. A widespread streak use would kill non-ecm lights most likely.

[NextGame]

Apathy Enrage, on 14 October 2015 - 12:24 PM, said:

I really hope all 1500 of your posts aren't as completely idotic as this... right NOW MWO is the shallowest iteration possible... This adds depth... Go play CoD you crybaby

What depth exactly does it add? shorter laser range, lower heat cap and broken ecm. Your idea of depth is lrmpocalypse 4 (or whatever lrmpocalypse we are currently about to be on, given that one invariable comes around when they pull stupid **** like this, followed by everyone crying for a month till they temper their changes and leave everyone dissatisfied in the process)?

Edited by NextGame, 14 October 2015 - 12:58 PM.

[Apathy Enrage]

ECM is not broken, it's actually going to work a whole lot better... Also, LRMs will have a harder time locking targets, it won't be insta lock 'nor will they be able to easily sit behind a hill and fire LRMs from safety. It brings down TTK and it forces people to actually pay attention to who they have locked. It's not really that much of a change to laser range...

You've actually gotta pay attention to who your teamates have locked, how far you are and who you're shooting at. You'll have to intelligently place shots on the correct targets instead of firing all willynilly at whatever twitches in front of you.

[Foxfire]

ECM as it currently exists is broken and has been since implementation. This change starts to move it towards what it was supposed to be. Hopefully they will continue in this direction and make information warfare a full part of the game finally.

[Apathy Enrage]

Foxfire, on 14 October 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:

ECM as it currently exists is broken and has been since implementation. This change starts to move it towards what it was supposed to be. Hopefully they will continue in this direction and make information warfare a full part of the game finally.

^^This^^

Edited by Apathy Enrage, 14 October 2015 - 01:22 PM.

[FupDup]

Foxfire, on 14 October 2015 - 01:18 PM, said:

ECM as it currently exists is broken and has been since implementation. This change starts to move it towards what it was supposed to be. Hopefully they will continue in this direction and make information warfare a full part of the game finally.

It's supposed to be a shield that reduces laser damage?

[Mystere]

MeiSooHaityu, on 14 October 2015 - 02:29 AM, said:

I'm not sure I like the idea of the reduced damage on non targeted mechs. The issue with me is less about the logic of it, but more about the buff to ECM mechs. Even with a reduced bubble, ECM still protects the ECM mech. Granted I don't think the damage reduction to weapons will be much, but still, why buff indirectly buff ECM mechs?

It's called give-and-take.