180 replies to this topic

[Elizander]

I'm not too fond of it either.

They want to give more value to "R" at the cost of basic game functionality. I think there are better ways to go about it.

[Jetfire]

I love this change, this is why you have a targeting computer... you use it to target things. No more feeling out mech with lasers and magic hit detector.

[TexAce]

Right as if you would have a confirmation besides the visual one (the one you see with your own eyes) when you fire any weapon in real life ever.

If you have not targeted a mech and do not see the paperdoll, it means there is no link between you and the enemy, so how should you be supposed to know if you hit or not? There is no polling going on between the two mechs, thus no flash.

Oh my god IT EVEN MAKES SENSE!

Edited by TexAce, 14 October 2015 - 04:35 AM.

[Hotthedd]

l33tworks, on 14 October 2015 - 03:59 AM, said:

Test server means its a change they have come up with and already coded in the game, so unless people get up in arms over it and complain like crazy, history has shown they leave it in.
This is not the type of thing people get up in arms over, meaning its very very likely to keep staying until production if they don't realize whats going on, so don't say its only A TEST SERVER.

How will pressing R work on, a mech over 500m? A mech with ECM? A mech even closer to you, you will need to wait 3-5 seconds, but then its too later. Either Rticle flash works always or it doesn't at all. there is no in between. So don't say "Press R" like its some kind of solution. It wont. I don't think people realise how empty and dull its going to feel to shoot stuff and not get a hit confirmation.

Judging by your original post, I would have to say that at least SOME people will get "up in arms over it". You did, and it isn't even on the test server yet. At least if it doesn't work you are in a great position to make an "I told you so" post. If you are right, I will even give that post a "like".

I think you might be jumping the gun though.

You have a good point about the "R" key sometimes cycling through targets that you aren't trying to target. It would be nice if there were a key (Q could work) that targets anyone under your reticle, friend or foe. That would also assure that you can target what you wish to shoot at.

[l33tworks]

CygnusX7, on 14 October 2015 - 04:14 AM, said:

Just goes to show how out of it I am.. I've often found myself wondering if the reticle flash could be more accurate.

I have thought the same thing. The current reticle flash has a pretty limited and generic flash that doesnt flash exactly according to when a hit was landed, but rather generaly. For example hitting with multiple ballistics it wont flash and turn of flash and turn of each time a ballistic hits the enemy mech, but it Generally will flash at least once within those moments. The poor thing tries hard but at least it works.

Karl Streiger, on 14 October 2015 - 04:16 AM, said:

reticle flash = you PPC shot hits a building 500m before the target and turns red?!!!!

maybe that the thing the OP mentioned with client calculation - i missed that shot from my point of view...i did it clearly no mistake here. but somehow the server said: well thats a hit.....
maybe he did calculate the travel path of the PPC barrel - the last 400ms before the shot and did the same with the target - and when there was a LOS during any of those times its a "hit"

Well thats the thing some people fail to see, According to you you missed, but the server says you hit so you are ok with it, right? Whew I got lucky, you think! But what about on the contrary? When YOU hit on your side, but the server says "NOPE" Now you know when that happens (all too often for me), but with this change you wont ever know.

You will be hitting shots and all of them could be missing and you wont have a clue.

Archie4Strings, on 14 October 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

I actually do not see such a big problem here!
Usually your eyes should be good enough to see if you hit a target.
And also: It is actually more realistic!

What people like you dont seem to get is you CANT use your eyes. Your EYES will see that you hit but as long as the server doesn't agree, it means nothing. BTW, Real life doesn't have "HIT DETECTION",

You don't punch someone in the head in real life and have the shot not register

[QuulDrah]

l33tworks, on 14 October 2015 - 04:40 AM, said:

What people like you dont seem to get is you CANT use your eyes. Your EYES will see that you hit but as long as the server doesn't agree, it means nothing.

^this! so much this!

[Yellonet]

Wow... anybody that is upset by this change must be real arcade players that don't like any realism whatsoever.
Oh noes my crutch!!

PLEASE PGI, don't listen to the n00b arcade whiners, this is a very good change!

Edited by Yellonet, 14 October 2015 - 04:50 AM.

[l33tworks]

TexAce, on 14 October 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

Right as if you would have a confirmation besides the visual one (the one you see with your own eyes) when you fire any weapon in real life ever.

If you have not targeted a mech and do not see the paperdoll, it means there is no link between you and the enemy, so how should you be supposed to know if you hit or not? There is no polling going on between the two mechs, thus no flash.

Oh my god IT EVEN MAKES SENSE!

It also makes sense that if your mech explodes you should die, but we know better than to purposely rig up c4 to our computer chairs and have them go off when your in game mech does. I know its a very out there example, but the point is you are playing a video game, and because of that there are some good "comprises" you should make to realism (and you want these), and there is logic behind what realism you try to implement or not, for the better of the experience.

If you are playing a single player game you don't need it. But its very important aspect on a game that plays over a world wide network. It may not be realistic, but neither are 10000x other things. It doesn't mean they aren't vital to how the game should play. There are no graphics options in real life, there are no sound options, there are no....should I keep going? It doesn't mean you don't want these things in a video game.

Edited by l33tworks, 14 October 2015 - 04:57 AM.

[STEF_]

Titannium, on 14 October 2015 - 04:25 AM, said:

i dont care fanbois, but its SHOULD flash when hit. Otherwise its only excuse for devs, that cannot create good hit detection.

well, let's put in this way: if your radar doesn't lock the target there is not reason for reticule to flash....because your radar doesn't know what you are aiming.

[CDLord HHGD]

I had no idea the test server was actually live to test this instead of reading some documentation and freaking out without actually knowing how it's going to work.

Silly me.....

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Stefka Kerensky, on 14 October 2015 - 04:55 AM, said:

well, let's put in this way: if your radar doesn't lock the target there is not reason for reticule to flash....because your radar doesn't know what you are aiming.

So we will shoot blindly now ? Thats good you say ?

[MeiSooHaityu]

Stefka Kerensky, on 14 October 2015 - 04:55 AM, said:

well, let's put in this way: if your radar doesn't lock the target there is not reason for reticule to flash....because your radar doesn't know what you are aiming.

That's a really good point.

Titannium, on 14 October 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

So we will shoot blindly now ? Thats good you say ?

I guess it is just up to you to decide if the shot is worth taking without confirmation i suppose. And that is only applicable if you are going to play on the test server anyway.

Edited by MeiSooHaityu, 14 October 2015 - 05:05 AM.

[STEF_]

Titannium, on 14 October 2015 - 05:01 AM, said:

So we will shoot blindly now ? Thats good you say ?

nope, I'm saying "get lock", "click R", "Install Bap", "install TC", etc. so you can lock and rely on flashing reticule.

[sycocys]

TexAce, on 14 October 2015 - 04:34 AM, said:

Right as if you would have a confirmation besides the visual one (the one you see with your own eyes) when you fire any weapon in real life ever.

If you have not targeted a mech and do not see the paperdoll, it means there is no link between you and the enemy, so how should you be supposed to know if you hit or not? There is no polling going on between the two mechs, thus no flash.

Oh my god IT EVEN MAKES SENSE!

I'm either/or on this - will be a pain for new players but at the same time it will actually force players to target things if they want to see where/if they are doing damage.

You are completely right though, without targeting there's no way for you computer to know it hit a mech or hit a building or hit a rock. In that regard I'm 100% behind something like this, but for noobs and players that can't think maybe have it do some sort of flash for T5 players, so if you are competent and want lazy CoD mode you have to drop down out of the competition.

[l33tworks]

cdlord, on 14 October 2015 - 04:56 AM, said:

I had no idea the test server was actually live to test this instead of reading some documentation and freaking out without actually knowing how it's going to work.

Silly me.....

Oh yes, but ofcrouse, the documentation is so ambiguous, who knows how its going to work when they say "The targeting reticle will no longer flash'" They could literally mean anything? Maybe your printer will start to print C bills

IF you see a hole labelled. Grinder machine, do not step inside you will be killed. Do you think Gee lets not judge what happens unitl we actually go in and see how it works.

Cmon man, are you serious?

What is it with people who think you have to try Anything and everything to know about it when some things are 100% self explanatory.
"How about having intercourse with a monkey while hanging upside down on a balcony eating bananas?
"No thanks"
"But How do you know if you like it or not if you haven't tried it?"

I know exactly what this change will do. make it very confusing to know whether you are dealing damage or not.

Edited by l33tworks, 14 October 2015 - 05:16 AM.

[Speedy Plysitkos]

Stefka Kerensky, on 14 October 2015 - 05:05 AM, said:

nope, I'm saying "get lock", "click R", "Install Bap", "install TC", etc. so you can lock and rely on flashing reticule.

for lasers ? nonsense.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

l33tworks, on 14 October 2015 - 03:33 AM, said:

I am not normally one to care too much about changes devs make. Sure I speak my mind but i dont "rage" or get up in arms over it. I don't care about clans vs IS or balance in general, I just still try to have fun and use whatever works.

But for the first time in MWO History, I am Pi$$sed of with a PROPOSED change, because its so fundamental and game breakingly ludicrous

I am pissed. Very pissed with the little line here.

"The targeting reticle will no longer flash when a hit is detected on a ‘Mech that is not target-locked."
no longer flash
no longer flash
no longer flash


I hardly ever target enemy mechs even in the current state of the game, but even if I am FORCED to, just to get a reticle flash, I will not able to in MANY cases. Therefore there will be no reticle flash, in MANY cases

Now there will be scenarios where I will be shooting mechs in plain sight and not know whether I am doing damage?
How can they possibly think thats ok? Do PGI not realise its a server side game? How will i know I am hitting a mech? Its the same as a Bank account that doesn't let you see how much money you have in it. Its Insane.

The explosion and weapon effects are all CLIENT side and has never correlated with whether I am doing damage or not, the reticle flash is SERVER side which is the only thing that matters. Its the only way for me to know the damage I have placed has been confirmed by the server. Its not realistic but its necessary for a network based game. IF this was real life, you wouldnt need a reticle flash, IF YOU HIT YOU KNOW YOU HIT, but this is a game, and it doesn't work like that.

Next step is they will start to "pull" damage that landed on targeted mechs as balance mechanic for matchmaker because the "shot missed" but really it just didn't register on purpose and you wont have any way of knowing. Now that you have no reticle flash, how will you know?!

I know why PGi did this. They don't want people to "feel around" for mechs without seeing them on their radar by waving a laser around. Hardly anyone does that now, and if they rarely ever do, its only lasers, but my suggestion is to increase the needed for reticle flash or duration with lasers, but NOT REMOVE IT ENTIRELY. For example if greater than 60% of a burn time landed, show you reticle flash. OR if you hit with a ballistic, show flash. No one will waste ballistics to feel for mechs anyway

Fine with the game breaking lolz IICs will be, gets pissed about reticle flash

[Kdogg788]

Jetfire, on 14 October 2015 - 04:29 AM, said:

I love this change, this is why you have a targeting computer... you use it to target things. No more feeling out mech with lasers and magic hit detector.

+1 This. Lasers do not relay information back like a TAG. ER Large lasers are not enemy mech probes.

-k

[SkyHammyr]

Quote

I hardly ever target enemy mechs even in the current state of the game, but even if I am FORCED to, just to get a reticle flash, I will not able to in MANY cases. Therefore there will be no reticle flash, in MANY cases.

Then, you're a bad player and you should feel bad.
If you can't be troubled to press the R key, denying yourself the enemy paper doll telling you WHERE THE HELL TO SHOOT and letting your team know that, "Hey, there's something over here I'm shooting at, give me a hand," then you don't deserve reticle flash.
Fool.

Edited by SkyHammr, 14 October 2015 - 05:20 AM.

[Kdogg788]

SkyHammr, on 14 October 2015 - 05:19 AM, said:

Then, you're a bad player and you should feel bad.
If you can't be troubled to press the R key, denying yourself the enemy paper doll telling you WHERE THE HELL TO SHOOT and letting your team know that, "Hey, there's something over here I'm shooting at, give me a hand," then you don't deserve reticle flash.
Fool.

More importantly, by not pressing R you deny your team the information that the enemy mech is there, his exact location, condition, and loadout.

-k