396 replies to this topic

[Damascas]

The firestarter is from 2550.

[Adm Awesome]

I want a Wolfhound, no ballistics though : [

[Damascas]

You can modify it to have same armor as an urbie just like people keep saying they can mod the urbie to make it faster.

Also I called you an *** for repeatedly posting like a pretentious one so get off your high horse.

Edited by Damascas, 09 July 2012 - 09:01 PM.

[CCC Dober]

I see we still have not found a valid replacement for the Urbie that can mount the same ballistic firepower at 30 tons while being dirt cheap. But I read lots of arguments that bigger Mechs do better. Wow ... that's a very compelling argument, totally agreed. But what about doing the same job with a minimum of resources? Ever thought about that? That's where you take the Urbie and customize it as the situation demands. It isn't stuck to large caliber ballistics and given a bigger reactor it can haul 4$$. It's a tradeoff for raw firepower, but if other Light Mechs tried to pack ballistics like the Urbie, they simply can't. Is there some sort of 'gun envy' going on here? Because I can tell that big guns usually have that effect. The humiliating part is not so much the gun, but the chassis it comes with and that's where the Urbie is king.

[Damascas]

CCC Dober, on 09 July 2012 - 09:33 PM, said:

I see we still have not found a valid replacement for the Urbie that can mount the same ballistic firepower at 30 tons while being dirt cheap. But I read lots of arguments that bigger Mechs do better. Wow ... that's a very compelling argument, totally agreed. But what about doing the same job with a minimum of resources? Ever thought about that? That's where you take the Urbie and customize it as the situation demands. It isn't stuck to large caliber ballistics and given a bigger reactor it can haul 4$$. It's a tradeoff for raw firepower, but if other Light Mechs tried to pack ballistics like the Urbie, they simply can't. Is there some sort of 'gun envy' going on here? Because I can tell that big guns usually have that effect. The humiliating part is not so much the gun, but the chassis it comes with and that's where the Urbie is king.

The firestarter is an easy replacement for the urbie.

[CCC Dober]

Damascas, on 09 July 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

The firestarter is an easy replacement for the urbie.

I'm afraid it is not. From what I see here, it is primarily based on energy/missile weapons. Nowhere does it come close to the AC20.
Another point is that it packs 35 tons instead of 30 tons like the Urbie. Give the Urbie 5 more tons and then it would be fair. Alas this is impossible, so the comparison is not legit in the first place. So in essence the Firestarter can't deal. It lacks comparable ballistics and equal weight to do so. Although allowances could be made in case of weight, we're not totally stubborn here.

Edited by CCC Dober, 09 July 2012 - 09:43 PM.

[Johnny Reb]

Why: Crap mech only good to snipe in citys!, What good can have a decent wep for sniping in in city! The commando is enough don't need the urbanmech!

edit: Urban mech = free kill out ouf a city!

Edited by Johnny Reb, 09 July 2012 - 09:49 PM.

[Damascas]

Yes you are, this whole debate you guys have constantly changed the rules of engagement the urbie is a crappy mech, stock in 12 v 12 it is less tha useless it only has 2 known hard points so a mech like the firestarter outstrips it in every way carrying as many ballistic hard points as it has total. I am tired of the condisension and stupidity the urbie is a joke mech and would do nothing more than flail on the battlefield uselessly without a complete overhaul other mechs would do better, I am done.

[Buck Rogers]

Damascas, on 09 July 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

The firestarter is an easy replacement for the urbie.

I could be wrong... But it would be really weird if the Firestarter could mount an AC-20. For the AC-20 version of the Urbanmech you look at that big right cannon arm, and just imagine it being a bit bigger. Look at the Firestarter. It would look all sorts of loopy with a 14 ton AC-20 slapped onto it. Yeah, it has two Machine Guns and 1 ton of ammo, for a total weight of 2 tons of weight. 2 tons. I'm not exactly certain how the Hardpoint system works yet, but it would be very odd if you could use the hardpoint for 2 machine guns for a 14 ton AC-20.

That's also why I was wary of mounting a 7 ton PPC on the Urbanmechs energy hard point, which normally mounts a .5 ton small laser.

And, yeah, like CCC Dober said... Firestarter is 35 tons... In the 30 ton range your options for "anything but the Urbanmech!" are Javelin, Spider, and thats it, as far as in-universe common 30 tonners go... In the Reseen/Unseen department you have the 30 ton Valkyrie as well...

[Adm Awesome]

I love how people keep mentioning the AC20 version when normally it's supposed to have an AC10. The version with the AC20 wasn't popular at all mecause of how little ammo it had, and to be able to carry the AC20 it needed to forfeit armor. So you can't really claim huge armor and huge weapons at the same time, it's one or the other with the Urbanmech.

[Terbius]

I am in favor of the Urbanmech being introduced in this game at a later date. im sure this point has already been made, but I will make it again. the urbanmech is ideal for fighting in a city. think downtown sanfrancisco. ok sure your wasp can go 126kph, but do you think it can hit a 90 degree corner at that speed? what about if it has to hit multiple consecutive corners while torso twisted at 90 degrees and going around buildings? do you think you could do that at much faster than 35kph?

[Captain Fabulous]

My two cents (REPOSTED AGAIN)

The Urbie was designed to be a mobile turret for urban combat scenarios. Your wasps and stingers' speed is completely useless if they're going to be falling everywhere on Ferro-crete (if you haven't experienced this, you haven't played the tabletop).

The Urbmanmech is designed to be a cheap downgrade of the hunchback. It sits behind a building and just waits for a mech to unknowingly walk into it. Check rules regarding hidden units; what happens is not pretty. I'm talking "rolling-a-4-to-hit-your-116-km/h-flying-stinger-with-an-AC/20" kind of not pretty.


That being said, when it comes to Mech-on-mech open field combat, yes, the Urbie is pretty much useless apart from being bait. But those of you who are anti-Urbie for whatever reason need to recognize that it still has its place just like every other mech.


Not to mention there are plenty of other mechs that I want to see too; i.e. Grasshopper, Phoenix Hawk, Banshee, Highlander, Cyclops, Whitworth, Vindicator, Panther, Zeus, Hussar, Blackjack, Hermes, Dervish, Enforcer, Kintaro, Wyvern, etc.The list goes on and on and on. However, I also know that the devs are going to opt for the iconic mechs that people are more familiar with, and with the exclusion of clans and mechs that are post-3049, the selection of mechs that people are going to recognize and want to pilot gets slimmer and slimmer. Even if the Urbanmech is quirky and somewhat useless for the majority of battles, it has a huge fan base behind it and that alone is something that could push the devs to include it.

[Vechs]

Buck Rogers, on 09 July 2012 - 09:54 PM, said:

I could be wrong... But it would be really weird if the Firestarter could mount an AC-20. For the AC-20 version of the Urbanmech you look at that big right cannon arm, and just imagine it being a bit bigger. Look at the Firestarter. It would look all sorts of loopy with a 14 ton AC-20 slapped onto it. Yeah, it has two Machine Guns and 1 ton of ammo, for a total weight of 2 tons of weight. 2 tons. I'm not exactly certain how the Hardpoint system works yet, but it would be very odd if you could use the hardpoint for 2 machine guns for a 14 ton AC-20.

That's also why I was wary of mounting a 7 ton PPC on the Urbanmechs energy hard point, which normally mounts a .5 ton small laser.

And, yeah, like CCC Dober said... Firestarter is 35 tons... In the 30 ton range your options for "anything but the Urbanmech!" are Javelin, Spider, and thats it, as far as in-universe common 30 tonners go... In the Reseen/Unseen department you have the 30 ton Valkyrie as well...

Under their current system, you can swap out a weapon for any other weapon of the same type.

So the Urbanmech would have at least one ballistic hardpoint in the right arm, and one energy hardpoint in the left arm.

They seem to be awarding hardpoints based on how big the stock variant weapons are.

So, if PGI makes an Urbanmech, I would expect 3 or 4 ballistic hardpoints for that right arm, and probably just 1 energy hard point on the left arm.

Keep in mind, this is a totally separate system from the Critical slots.

So yes, you could mount a PPC or any other energy weapon on it's left arm.

The 3d model that shows up in game should change, by the way. From what they have said, the weapon should appear larger being a PPC.

[Vechs]

Edit:

Also, they have mentioned that weapons of the same type made by different manufactures would have different vanity appearances. This will probably be a good candidate for them to sell weapons for real money that look different.

[Captain Fabulous]

Unfortunately, from what I've seen in mechlab videos thusfar it doesn't seem that visual modulation of the guns is something they've concerned themselves with. This has been a disappointment in every MechWarrior release... ever.

[Buck Rogers]

Adm Awesome, on 09 July 2012 - 09:58 PM, said:

I love how people keep mentioning the AC20 version when normally it's supposed to have an AC10. The version with the AC20 wasn't popular at all mecause of how little ammo it had, and to be able to carry the AC20 it needed to forfeit armor. So you can't really claim huge armor and huge weapons at the same time, it's one or the other with the Urbanmech.

And the problem with the haters is that they use selective reasoning when picking apart the Urbie.

Someone said "Urbanmech is required because no other light mech has ballistic hardpoints."

Previous dude was like "Why not firestarter it has ballistic hardpoints."

I say "It would be weird if the Firestarter could mount an AC-20 on its two tiny MG spots".

Captain Fairlycool replies "AC-20 version negates the armor advantage of the AC-10 version so this foils your argument."

Dude.. What? Who was claiming "huge armor and huge weapons at the same time" ?

It's really the haters that make the illogical comparisons and arguments. When comparing A to B, they bring up C as if that foils the original equation. You're stretching folks. You're really, really stretching.

I'd never take out my Urbanmech with the AC-20. You lose the ranged punch AND a lot of armor. When Clan weapons show up, their autocannons weigh a heap less than IS tech though. Those could be fun. And I like the fact the Urbanmech can mount the IS AC-20. It would definitely try a few rounds with it mounted just for fun, but I think the unusually thick armor of the regular urbanmech is a bigger draw than the firepower of the AC-20 personally.

Edited by Buck Rogers, 09 July 2012 - 10:21 PM.

[Vechs]

Captain Fabulous, on 09 July 2012 - 10:14 PM, said:

Unfortunately, from what I've seen in mechlab videos thusfar it doesn't seem that visual modulation of the guns is something they've concerned themselves with. This has been a disappointment in every MechWarrior release... ever.

They did say that the small, medium, and large lasers probably won't look that different, just changes in the lens color. I would imagine the vanity details like this are at the bottom of their priority list for the beta.

But it is on their radar.

[Captain Fabulous]

Buck Rogers, on 09 July 2012 - 10:16 PM, said:

I'd never take out my Urbanmech with the AC-20. You lose the ranged punch AND a lot of armor. When Clan weapons show up, their autocannons weigh a heap less than IS tech though. Those could be fun.

Really? I would go just the opposite. I plan on having the AC/20 variant Urbie if they are implemented and take it out SOLEY on base defense scenarios. Park behind a building and just wait for something to pop the corner. Dump a round into the mech and jump off to a different corner to wait again. I've always utilized my Urbie as sort of a trapdoor spider in combat.

[Captain Fabulous]

At least, that's how it goes for me in Battletech. I'm not sure how well that'd translate with MechWarrior yet.

[Buck Rogers]

Captain Fabulous, on 09 July 2012 - 10:20 PM, said:

Really? I would go just the opposite. I plan on having the AC/20 variant Urbie if they are implemented and take it out SOLEY on base defense scenarios. Park behind a building and just wait for something to pop the corner. Dump a round into the mech and jump off to a different corner to wait again. I've always utilized my Urbie as sort of a trapdoor spider in combat.

You only get 5 shots of AC-20 if you want to keep 4 tons of armor (Jenner & Cicada standard). But on the upside, 1 shot should core a lot of mechs. In a base defense role the crit-busting nature of the AC-20 might remedy the 5 round limitation. Especially if they incorporate knock-down. Still probably not for me though.