396 replies to this topic

[Melcyna]

Beo Vulf, on 10 July 2012 - 05:35 PM, said:

Urbies are fine for their intended roll which is city fighting, but put an Urbie in front of an atlas at 800 yards and the Urbie is toast. Pretty much any mech with ranged weapons like large lasers, ppc's, lrm 20's out range the Urbie and most of the Mechs that carry those weapons also out mass the urbie in weight, and armor. Every Mech in the game whether it be MW3, MW4, or this game has strengths and weakness's under standing them both for your mech and the mech you are facing are the keys to winning a battle. An Urbie v Catapult in a city is a missmatch the Urbie if piloted right will eat the pults lunch. The same two mechs in the country their positions are reversed unless the Urbie can get in closs before being disabled.

Some of these ppl however INSIST that urby is 'versatile' apparently despite it's incredibly restrictive operation parameter.

i frankly have difficulty understanding why they insist on turning a mech which are designed specifically for a scenario into ones it was not intended for nor good at.

it's like saying longbow is versatile since technically you can swap out it's missile loadout for any combat range right?

UHHHHH... yeah sure u can try brawling with it loaded choke full of SRM or streak (did that once for funsies), but i am not gonna claim the mech is actually good at brawling with it, nor is it versatile in it's role in that manner.

[GreyGriffin]

Now, I'm not to argue the Urbanmech is made if win. In gameplay, Urbs is often outflanked, outgunned, and outmaneuvered by mechs twice its weight. But MWO does give the Urbie one thing it has never had before.

The thing is tiny.

Although the tabletop game's models portray it as relatively bulbous and large, and previous computer games have given it a significant amount of heft, the Urbanmech is actually quite small. In gameplay videos, you've seen the Jenner side by side with the Atlas and the Hunchback, and it's pretty small, sprightly even. The Urbanmech has stubby legs, no gangly arms, and no fidgy weapon pods sticking out of its face, and it's a full five tons lighter. With some cover and a reasonably high degree and speed of torso traverse, some luck, and some pilot modules for ECM, it's got hope.

Now, is it going to be the sauce of awesome that causes queue drops the moment it hot drops? Probably not. Is it going to be better than any of its previous incarnations? I hope so.

Edited by GreyGriffin, 11 July 2012 - 12:47 AM.

[Vechs]

Melcyna, on 10 July 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

Some of these ppl however INSIST that urby is 'versatile' apparently despite it's incredibly restrictive operation parameter.

i frankly have difficulty understanding why they insist on turning a mech which are designed specifically for a scenario into ones it was not intended for nor good at.

it's like saying longbow is versatile since technically you can swap out it's missile loadout for any combat range right?

UHHHHH... yeah sure u can try brawling with it loaded choke full of SRM or streak (did that once for funsies), but i am not gonna claim the mech is actually good at brawling with it, nor is it versatile in it's role in that manner.

Well the thing is, we have MechLab.

That means you can basically take any mech and tune it to fill almost any role, as long as the hardpoints support the weapons you want.

There is no reason you can't take an Urbanmech and max the engine and armor, and you end up with a 30 ton scout mech that has a lot more armor than it's weight class usually does.

I'm pretty sure you could also take a Jenner and put a tiny engine in it, and turn it into a small Catapult.

Hypothetically, if a Longbow was in the game, you could ignore it's missile racks, and use what few energy hardpoints it would have (4?) to put three PPCs on it, and turn it into an Awesome.

In many ways, MechLab turns the Mechs chassis into more or less an appearance / vanity thing.

[Serevn]

You know I actually never really thought about the Urbie at all... then the fanboys came in spouting they want it... and for some reason I decided to take the "Death to the Urbie" stance.

[Vechs]

Serevn, on 11 July 2012 - 03:43 AM, said:

You know I actually never really thought about the Urbie at all... then the fanboys came in spouting they want it... and for some reason I decided to take the "Death to the Urbie" stance.

I'm not even an "urbie fanboy", I'm just here because I think the people crusading against the mech are bonkers (and they're being unfair about it too). The most common argument I see is "it's slow".

Okay, so the stock variant is slow, upgrade the engine. Apparently MechLab does not exist if you pilot an Urbanmech. *shrugs*

[ShadowDarter]

i think the Urbanmech comes down to one simple point.

"If you dont like it then dont use it."

apart from that the more the mechs the merrier,

[Terror Teddy]

Vechs, on 11 July 2012 - 04:01 AM, said:

I'm not even an "urbie fanboy", I'm just here because I think the people crusading against the mech are bonkers (and they're being unfair about it too). The most common argument I see is "it's slow".

Im in the same boat. I love underdogs and the quote is mostly "An Atlas will squash it and then we real mechs can do our jobs..."

Of COURSE a bloody Atlas would squash it - its an assault mech for christ sake. Now pit an Urbie with an AC/10 or heaven forbid an AC/20 against other LIGHT mechs and that thing will be a bloody tank with the biggest ballistic weapon on the battlefield.

[Haydin]

GreyGriffin, on 11 July 2012 - 12:31 AM, said:

Now, I'm not to argue the Urbanmech is made if win. In gameplay, Urbs is often outflanked, outgunned, and outmaneuvered by mechs twice its weight. But MWO does give the Urbie one thing it has never had before.

The thing is tiny.

Although the tabletop game's models portray it as relatively bulbous and large, and previous computer games have given it a significant amount of heft, the Urbanmech is actually quite small. In gameplay videos, you've seen the Jenner side by side with the Atlas and the Hunchback, and it's pretty small, sprightly even. The Urbanmech has stubby legs, no gangly arms, and no fidgy weapon pods sticking out of its face, and it's a full five tons lighter. With some cover and a reasonably high degree and speed of torso traverse, some luck, and some pilot modules for ECM, it's got hope.

Now, is it going to be the sauce of awesome that causes queue drops the moment it hot drops? Probably not. Is it going to be better than any of its previous incarnations? I hope so.

Oh my god a little ankle-biter urbie with a giant XL engine and armed with nothing but a laser and a couple machine guns would be ADORABLE.The stubby little legs moving so fast....

[Melcyna]

Vechs, on 11 July 2012 - 01:22 AM, said:

Well the thing is, we have MechLab.

That means you can basically take any mech and tune it to fill almost any role, as long as the hardpoints support the weapons you want.

There is no reason you can't take an Urbanmech and max the engine and armor, and you end up with a 30 ton scout mech that has a lot more armor than it's weight class usually does.

I'm pretty sure you could also take a Jenner and put a tiny engine in it, and turn it into a small Catapult.

Hypothetically, if a Longbow was in the game, you could ignore it's missile racks, and use what few energy hardpoints it would have (4?) to put three PPCs on it, and turn it into an Awesome.

In many ways, MechLab turns the Mechs chassis into more or less an appearance / vanity thing.

That's true of course, but consider this..

There are things that make sense with an urby for example it carry sizeable base armor for it's class, so maxing out it's armor makes sense turning it into an even tougher street fighter.

But If you take it and max out it's engine, will it achieve what another light can do using the same optimization on engine loadout?

[RePoD]

The Urbanmech would give the devs the perfect 'in game purchase' you could let people purchase as many different variants as they wanted without anyone ever accusing them of creating a 'buy to win' game...

[Vechs]

Melcyna, on 11 July 2012 - 04:47 AM, said:

That's true of course, but consider this..

There are things that make sense with an urby for example it carry sizeable base armor for it's class, so maxing out it's armor makes sense turning it into an even tougher street fighter.

But If you take it and max out it's engine, will it achieve what another light can do using the same optimization on engine loadout?

This is where the "more or less" part about the MechLab kicks in. If you compare it to another 30 ton chassis with a maxed engine, the Urbanmech will cap at 97 kph I think, while another chassis would probably cap at... herp derpy... umm... 137 kph? Not quite sure. Need TT experts. At the same time, that chassis will probably cap at 4 tons of armor, where the Urbanmech caps at... 6?

I think instead of people saying "the Urbanmech is slow" they ought to say "The Urbanmech has different statistical caps than a typical 30 ton mech, with a bias towards armor and a short towards speed."

Which is a good thing! I still don't get how variety is bad.

Edited by Vechs, 11 July 2012 - 05:00 AM.

[Terror Teddy]

I want my Atlas-Lite

[GT Hawk]

I just cant get out of my head (for many many years now) a mental image of a atles cracking open a urban mech and using it as a beer can. To me a urban mech is a atles personal walking keg. I even considered at one point painting a miniature urbin mech in some beer can setup.

That said I do see use for this mech in game as a ambush weapon. Its a defensive mech only that can sit in a urban environment, shoot and scoot (to some degree). A delaying action by these mechs could be quite effective, don't expect them all to libe but hey I want my beer can.

Edited by GT Hawk, 11 July 2012 - 05:16 AM.

[shadowhawk102]

the urbanmech would be a waste to put in the game at any point, too slow, and what 15 damage if both weapons hit, and next to no armour.
a jenner would be past and have it dead in seconds and the urban mech will only get one shot off before it is dead.

[Melcyna]

Vechs, on 11 July 2012 - 04:59 AM, said:

This is where the "more or less" part about the MechLab kicks in. If you compare it to another 30 ton chassis with a maxed engine, the Urbanmech will cap at 97 kph I think, while another chassis would probably cap at... herp derpy... umm... 137 kph? Not quite sure. Need TT experts. At the same time, that chassis will probably cap at 4 tons of armor, where the Urbanmech caps at... 6?

I think instead of people saying "the Urbanmech is slow" they ought to say "The Urbanmech has different statistical caps than a typical 30 ton mech, with a bias towards armor and a short towards speed."

Which is a good thing! I still don't get how variety is bad.

None... variety is never bad.

But that lower cap limit on the speed is what inherently makes the argument for 'versatility' on the reference for an urby quite perplexing if not paradoxical..

Lower cap limit on the speed is not a bad thing for an urby since it's MEANT to be operating in an area where speed limitation isn't too much of a concern, but at the same time it also means the mech is more optimized for specific condition and scenario ie: one where it doesn't exactly need stellar top speed.

Which is particularly acute for a light mech since no matter how much armor you cram into it, isn't going to survive an open ground slug out for long ie: we'd rather avoid being hit as much as we can if possible outside cover, or at least minimizing the exposure time to as short as possible.

[wanderer]

Damion Sparhawk, on 10 July 2012 - 02:20 PM, said:

short of, actually reading the original technical manuals, just because it's been transferred to the 'master list' doesn't mean someone is incapable of making a mistake on that list.

Let's put it to you this way.

Sarna is a fan-made wiki, and has frequent errors. The MUL is the same list writers use when writing new canonical works, such as TRO's, supplements, and new works of fiction for BattleCorps and the like.

Three guesses which one's wrong?

[Wired]

Because I'd rather they add a Panther.

*edit: My post is less of a criticism of the Urban mech and more of a criticism of wanting specific mechs in the game.

Edited by wired, 11 July 2012 - 11:57 AM.

[Damion Sparhawk]

wanderer, on 11 July 2012 - 11:13 AM, said:

Let's put it to you this way.

Sarna is a fan-made wiki, and has frequent errors. The MUL is the same list writers use when writing new canonical works, such as TRO's, supplements, and new works of fiction for BattleCorps and the like.

Three guesses which one's wrong?

and at which point did I say Sarna was god? I just said with two sources claiming different data and neither of them citing the original source material both are suspect, it doesn't matter which is 'likely more correct' or not, they're both suspect until proved shown otherwise one way or another. For all that it matters in this instance he might've recieved the mech from his father that is identical to the 5R template whether the 5R template existed at that time or not, as long as there isn't any weapons on that template that couldn't be had at that time period then it's irrelevant whether that particular variant existed or not, unless no variant at the time could be modified to fit that pattern. The master list is a good source of information but that hardly makes it infallible either so I wouldn't go putting someone on the spot using it as a reference especially when another source says otherwise

[Buck Rogers]

shadowhawk102, on 11 July 2012 - 05:17 AM, said:

the urbanmech would be a waste to put in the game at any point, too slow, and what 15 damage if both weapons hit, and next to no armour.
a jenner would be past and have it dead in seconds and the urban mech will only get one shot off before it is dead.

Are there any people who know how to use MegaMek here? The program confuses the daylight out of me.

Pit a JR7-D Jenner against the upgraded UM-R63 UrbanMech. (cause why not. LB 10-X AC is available in 3048.)

Then calculate % win and loss out of 10 bot Vs bot battles.

I'm sure the Jenner wins a lot of the time. It's faster and 5 tons heavier. I'd be interested to know the typical win/loss ratio though.

[GreyGriffin]

Buck Rogers, on 11 July 2012 - 03:06 PM, said:

Are there any people who know how to use MegaMek here? The program confuses the daylight out of me.

Pit a JR7-D Jenner against the upgraded UM-R63 UrbanMech. (cause why not. LB 10-X AC is available in 3048.)

Then calculate % win and loss out of 10 bot Vs bot battles.

I'm sure the Jenner wins a lot of the time. It's faster and 5 tons heavier. I'd be interested to know the typical win/loss ratio though.

You might be surprised. The Bot, especially princess, has a hard time exploiting defensive movement, and Urbs packs a whallop if you're not careful.