88 replies to this topic

[Riffleman]

I understand that the stock hunchback isnt top of the line technology as far as medium mechs go, but my question is this.

If you can take an atlas, strip down the weapons to the same loadout as a comparable medium, and use the left over tonnage to reach speeds very comperable to said medium, 65 kph in the case of the stock hunchback, quite easy with alot of tonnage left over in an atlas, why would you use the hunchback.

I understand things like being lower profile or not precieved as a high threat target mabye buying you some time from being shot at, but the balance at least for me on the tabletop came at both sides having the same tonnage limits. Since there will be no such restrictions why not just use the atlas? Way more armor and I doubt even a terrible loss with little or no money made is going to be a good enough reason to deter you.

[Rejarial Galatan]

i think a lot of this boils down to personal preferences

[Der Zivilist]

Because the Atlas will be more expensive to maintain.

Theoretically. We don't know details about the economy yet.

[Procyon Alpha]

You certainly can try but the Atlas is a much larger target and the AC20 is doing single loc dmg. Personally I like the Hunchback better any way but I am sure there is going to be some kind of point system that even a striped Atlas cost more than the stock HB.

[Ashla Mason]

Hunchback is cheaper, faster, has at least one jump variant, and is often mis prioritized when it advances within a lance of heavies (The hunchback hits harder then almost all of the ones that have been unveiled to date).

By contrast, the atlas (though much more versatile and hard hitting) is never underestimated.

[Sparks Murphey]

I think the idea is that the Hunchback will have better torso twist speeds, so it'll be easier to keep that big cannon on target. Certainly the Jenner torso twists much faster that the Atlas from the videos.

[Thorgar Wulfson]

have you considered the SIZE of the engine to get more speed out of an atlas? may eat up all your free weight, also their may be a team tonnage if so you just wasted a second medium to mimic one.

[Otto Cannon]

If it's possible within the build limitations, it will cost you lots to buy not only the more expensive mech (unless it's the free one) but also buy a big enough engine to make up the speed difference. It should be something you can do though, unless tonnage limits are a factor in this game somehow. You could say the same about using medium mechs to do scouting, why not make a faster hunchback and use it instead of a Jenner? We'll have to see how the game works to know whether it's worthwhile.

[sheradin]

Riffleman, on 08 July 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

I understand that the stock hunchback isnt top of the line technology as far as medium mechs go, but my question is this.

If you can take an atlas, strip down the weapons to the same loadout as a comparable medium, and use the left over tonnage to reach speeds very comperable to said medium, 65 kph in the case of the stock hunchback, quite easy with alot of tonnage left over in an atlas, why would you use the hunchback.

I understand things like being lower profile or not precieved as a high threat target mabye buying you some time from being shot at, but the balance at least for me on the tabletop came at both sides having the same tonnage limits. Since there will be no such restrictions why not just use the atlas? Way more armor and I doubt even a terrible loss with little or no money made is going to be a good enough reason to deter you.

for one thing you cant get a atlas to move that fast engine rating only goes up to 400 second why would you waste all that fire power the hunchback was designed to be a close in brawler to fight in urban enviments wasnt design for fighting out in the open

[Boldar]

Atlas is a big and mean target. Everybody knows this. So nobody gets surprised by it.
Hunchback has got a whole lot of punch. This is also known. But he is armored a lot less than an Atlas, so he goes down much more easily.
Personally I would always target the Hunchie before the Atlas, because I get rid of loads of pain rather fast.

If you "downgrade" an Atlas to a Hunchback-wannabe, then you take a rather good mech and ruin it.
That is like ripping the jumpjets out of an Urbie and installing another heat sink. No use in it...

[Comguard]

I think the OP wants to now something else.

If you have the choice between a medium mech with AC 20 and an assault mech with AC 20 plus a whole load of additional tools of destruction, why bother with the small mech?

Repair costs shouldn't be an issue, because the assaults will earn more money (in theory) because of higher damage potential.

So it all boils down to matchmaking, where we have no idea how it will work. Maybe the places for assaults are limited in each game, who knows.

[sheradin]

just did some checking and I stand corrected if you want to cripple the mechs firepower you can get it up to equivlent speed but not with sacaficeing around 8 tons of weapons or armour

[Melcyna]

Something i see missed upon so far...

the Atlas will still be more cumbersome than the Hunchback no matter what engine or chassis material you swap in.

you can make the Atlas FASTER, but that's separate to how quickly the Atlas can accelerate to that speed, and how fast can it change the speed.

This also includes how well the Atlas can turn...

First consider how fast the Mech can turn on the spot with the leg...

Then consider how fast it can turn the torso...

Put the two together and you can probably start seeing the difference...

An Atlas with a MASSIVE engine is like an oil tanker...

It can reach impressive speed (for it's size anyway), but like an oil tanker it will have limited capability to actually maneuver at all once it reach that speed...

Incidentally, that made me curious .... if i made an Atlas charge me at top speed and evaded him and he plunged to his death to some chasm because he can't stop... Do i get the kill for it?

[KageRyuu]

I would not consider the Hunchback top of the line unless we were talking 3025, because of the stock Hunchbacks available by 3049, only 1 of them uses any advanced technology. Regardless, why a Hunchback over an Atlas? Personal preference plays a part, but primarily better mobility and also flexibility. Just look at all the various Hunchback variants, you've got one with an AC20, another with an AC10 and more lasers, another with SRMs and more lasers, and one with LRMs. Then you have one that has an AC5 and 2 LRM 5s, and even one that's all lasers.

Though technically the Atlas has all that as well, Autocannons or Guass in one variant, lasers, LRMs and SRMs, the fact that the Atlas is twice as big and can only ever hope to go 60kph, while the Hunchback has more options available to it, speed, bigger weapons, more ammo, more tech. The Hunchback is all around a very flexible design, while the Atlas just well isn't..

http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hunchback

And a list of the variants, 4G, 4H, 4J, 4N, 4SP, and the upgraded 5M. You can find out what's available when by using this link: http://www.masteruni...info/MUL/Search

Edited by KageRyuu, 08 July 2012 - 11:56 PM.

[Xandre Blackheart]

See The Charger

[Kifferson von doober]

I've not checked the in game footage that much but it seems to me that physical size is also gonna be a factor. you look at the atlas and the jenner and tell me which one will be the easiest to target irrespective of movement speed. Atlas IS the proverbial barn door folks!
Like i said though i'm not sure how much smaller the hunchie is but there is gonna be a fair bit of difference.

[Buck Rogers]

Riffleman, on 08 July 2012 - 11:23 PM, said:

Why use a stock hunchback over say an atlas?

Why not make sweet passionate woohaa to every single Victorias Secret model every waking hour of every single day?

There's a time and a place Riffleman, a time and a place.

[Riffleman]

Boldar, on 08 July 2012 - 11:46 PM, said:

Atlas is a big and mean target. Everybody knows this. So nobody gets surprised by it.
Hunchback has got a whole lot of punch. This is also known. But he is armored a lot less than an Atlas, so he goes down much more easily.
Personally I would always target the Hunchie before the Atlas, because I get rid of loads of pain rather fast.

If you "downgrade" an Atlas to a Hunchback-wannabe, then you take a rather good mech and ruin it.
That is like ripping the jumpjets out of an Urbie and installing another heat sink. No use in it...

This is exactly what I mean, everyone knows what to expect from an atlas, a slow moving walking arsenal that can take hits. And people would smartly target the hunchback first because it gets it out of your hair, takeing a piece off the map much faster. This is the smart decision. BUT what I am proposing is changing the obvious outcome by retooling the atlas to be a big suprise for someone who expects one thing and gets another.

By dropping tons of weapons, and going with a light armament, say a couple lrm 15s and 4 medium lasers ( thats the same armament as the archer, and its a heavy, so respectable damage) giving it artemis to help with accuracy, and boosing the engine a ton, you have a medium armament boat that dosent overheat often, is as fast as a medium, but armored like the heaviest assault. There are alot of things you can do with this kind of thinking.

You can run up with your real mediums, be a close in brawler with much more speed out of your chassis then the other guy is expecting. Suprise is a huge advantage in pvp. The unexpected can throw your game off. You have more speed to get back to the base to defend, OR if you see one of your teammates getting pounded, you can jump inbetween the attacker and him and soak the attacks, whats he gonna do go around you?

I just think the average player dismisses builds like this outide the box design as inferior before they even see it in action. And I think come launch something like the archer-2 (which is what I am calling this specific build) will be a big suprise on the opposite side.

[Salticidae]

The hunchback also has a better turning circle making it easy to get behind your target, and a faster twisting torso with a bigger degree firing arc, making targeting specific areas easier,

[Deathz Jester]

Ashla Mason, on 08 July 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

has at least one jump variant

You would be technically wrong there bud. Seeing as the current year is 3049, and the one jump-capable variant of the Hunchback didn't come around until around 3060. (going off of a component(s) that is in the mech, such as the light fusion engine)

HBK-5S - Originally a refit line converted to full production, the 5S is a complete overhaul of the Hunchback design developed by Norse-Storm BattleMechs. The structure has been modified to use Endo Steel construction techniques, the engine has been upgraded to a Light Fusion Engine, and it has had four Jump Jets added for increased mobility. The 'Mech carries, as its primary weapon, an LB-X Autocannon/20 supported by two Medium Pulse Lasers and a single Small Laser.


http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Hunchback

Edited by Iron Harlequin, 09 July 2012 - 12:34 AM.