205 replies to this topic

[TheArisen]

http://www.sarna.net...nastasius_Focht
Any opinions?

[Vanguard319]

Luca M Pryde, on 06 January 2016 - 05:26 AM, said:

As for the entire caste rebelling against her, when did that happen? Either way she has had many more successes than failures and the Jade Falcons have surpassed all the clans in might, power and strategy since the battle of Tukayyid. Pretty good for a clan surrounded by enemies being much smaller than any house.

I think he was referring to the Society, but they existed long before Pryde became Khan, and they existed in multiple clans (Hell, the Society's origins can be found in Clan Coyote.) In addition, the Society rebelled because of IlKhan Brett Andrews' (A Steel Viper) obsession with purifying the clans via his declaration to Reave any bloodname suspected of being tainted by the inner sphere despite never giving any specifics on what this "taint" may be, (he was directly interfering with the responsibilities of the scientists as far as they were concerned.)

As for her successes, hers was the only invader clan that won it's battle during the great refusal, that is pretty much undisputable, as is ejecting the Steel Vipers from their OZ.

as far as good non-sue mechwarriors, no mention of Archer Cristofori or Minobu Tetsuhara?

[TheArisen]

Vanguard319, on 13 April 2016 - 03:56 PM, said:

I think he was referring to the Society, but they existed long before Pryde became Khan, and they existed in multiple clans (Hell, the Society's origins can be found in Clan Coyote.) In addition, the Society rebelled because of IlKhan Brett Andrews' (A Steel Viper) obsession with purifying the clans via his declaration to Reave any bloodname suspected of being tainted by the inner sphere despite never giving any specifics on what this "taint" may be, (he was directly interfering with the responsibilities of the scientists as far as they were concerned.)

As for her successes, hers was the only invader clan that won it's battle during the great refusal, that is pretty much undisputable, as is ejecting the Steel Vipers from their OZ.

as far as good non-sue mechwarriors, no mention of Archer Cristofori or Minobu Tetsuhara?

I brought up Archer but I guess he's just considered to be a good pilot but he's more notable for his unconventional tactics. I think he counts because this discussion isn't purely about pilot skill but leadership & tactical ability.

[Khan Felix Pryde]

The best MechWarrior's, with the most battlemech prowess are: 1) Natasha Kerensky, Kai Allard-Liao, Morgan Kell, Alexandr Kerensky, and lastly and very much debatable is Diana Pryde. I could see how you might disagree with that last one, other notable contenders Phelan Kell, Justin Allard, Vlad Ward, Aiden Pryde, Ulric Kerensky, Morgan Kells great adversary ,and of course myself could probably pose a pretty good argument to replace Diana. I am glad I settled that. Best tactician besides myself is either Focht or Alexandr Kerensky; Archer, Grayson, and Victor are fairly impressive as well.

Arguments with my selection can be settled in a trial of Grievances with me in MW2 or table top, quiaff?

[SnagaDance]

Khan Felix Pryde, on 25 May 2016 - 06:58 PM, said:

The best MechWarrior's, with the most battlemech prowess are: ......... Alexandr Kerensky,

How would you say that? The man was apparently a good general but I don't believe his battlemech prowess was anything outstanding, unless there's a source I've missed.

[Karl Streiger]

SnagaDance, on 26 May 2016 - 12:27 AM, said:

How would you say that? The man was apparently a good general but I don't believe his battlemech prowess was anything outstanding, unless there's a source I've missed.

Alex Kerensky was a Gunslinger - so he was one of the better Mechwarriors before he became a general.
and i bet the Gunslinger program was the issue why his narcist son later created the zellbrigen.

But we can say for sure the Kai was the best - and the TT rules proof it.

Quote

Father, I’ve never seen such single-minded rage, especially not from someone like Kai.
I fear he’s truly gone, and I’ve lost him all over again. I tried to discourage his blood
vendetta against Sun-Tzu, but he wouldn’t hear any of it. Watching him storm across the wheat
fields of New Aragon was unlike anything I’ve ever seen before. Even the old holovids from
Solaris and your stories from the Clan Invasion paled in comparison to the real thing. Kai
was unstoppable, implacable—a virtual force of nature. He drove the Rangers before him as
if he were the god of death manifested into reality. It was both terrible and wonderful to
behold, and in that moment I knew exactly what I needed to do.
—Excerpt from a letter from Knight Burton Davion to Paladin Victor Steiner-Davion, 22 July 3112

Quote

Kai Allard-Liao is the finest MechWarrior the universe has ever
known, and this is his swan song. During the battle all enemy
units will suffer an additional +3 to-hit penalty on all attacks—
including TAG—against Kai regardless of skill, range, or weapon.
Yen-lo-wang is also immune to Aimed Shots (see p. 110, TW),
the benefits of targeting computers, pulse lasers, LB-X cluster
munitions, and Actuator Enhancement Systems. In addition, Kai
adds a –2 to-hit modifier to all of his attacks, including physical
strikes, regardless of range or weapon. Kai also receives a +2
bonus when rolling on the Cluster Hits Table.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 26 May 2016 - 12:35 AM.

[B0oN]

Karl Streiger, on 26 May 2016 - 12:34 AM, said:

Alex Kerensky was a Gunslinger - so he was one of the better Mechwarriors before he became a general.
and i bet the Gunslinger program was the issue why his narcist son later created the zellbrigen.

But we can say for sure the Kai was the best - and the TT rules proof it.

Goddamnit PGI, nerf Kai, so OP .

[Karl Streiger]

Rad Hanzo, on 26 May 2016 - 01:38 AM, said:

Goddamnit PGI, nerf Kai, so OP .

Did I mention that the YLW3 used LRMs

[SnagaDance]

Karl Streiger, on 26 May 2016 - 12:34 AM, said:

Alex Kerensky was a Gunslinger - so he was one of the better Mechwarriors before he became a general.
and i bet the Gunslinger program was the issue why his narcist son later created the zellbrigen.

But we can say for sure the Kai was the best - and the TT rules proof it.

A gunslinger eh? didn't know that, so that at least made him a force to be reckoned with in 1 on 1 duels, doesn't say something about his skills when things get hectic though. But I'm sure he probably didn't immediately fold when faced with 2+ enemies, wouldn't have become THE Star League general otherwise.

Edited by SnagaDance, 26 May 2016 - 10:03 AM.

[VinJade]

not to old to post in(I really should read these sections more often, lol) thankfully

I don't know if we can really count Victor or Phelan as legit.
Phelan should have died taking that Clan PPC(15 point damage to a location with 3 i.s and 9 points of armor) to the head while Victor should have also died due to the GR to the head(same deal as kell).

I find Phelan laughable and it was all plot armor that allowed ether of them to win and live as long as they had, same thing with Kai, also a joke, it was all due to plot armor/plot skill nothing more than that.

Unlike Pryde there was no plot armor that protected him from a head shot
Also Black Widow should be high on the list.

Morgan Kell should be ban from the list because of Stockpole's inability to tell BT and SW apart when he was writing for them, I mean Phantom Mech ability come on.. its almost like he was using MWO's ecm rules or something....

My list would be as the following:
Black Widow
Adian Pryde
Jonna
Vald
"
"
"
"
"

As to the TT rules for Kai, iirc Herb once said that Kai in the end is just a normal pilot with 0/0 P/G skills and the bonuses for him can & should be ignored for game balance.

It was at a gen con some years ago, wish I could remember what year.

[Karl Streiger]

The Capellan Crusade is a quite new publication so the rules should not be ignored (of course its Plot armor)

Pryde - good joke well even if he isn't using plot armor - he cheats.
One round Lrm 20 kill a Warhawk and a Ice Ferret
To go one on one with another Summoner with just 3 rounds LBX remaining
Destroying a Rifleman with just a single small Laser.

About Joanna - forget it - reason? She is called Joanna nothing more no blood name so she is average at best - nothing wrong with average Clan Warriors they are as good as Veteran Is Warriors

[VinJade]

@Karl
Actually not really, my Friend who piloted nothing but a Commando through out his Pilot's 20 years of playing the game dropped a King Crab, a Jenner, a Super Nova, Nova, & kit fox with a lucky shot to the side torsos by rolling a 2 which are instant Crits to their respective locations even if the armor was not breached with his SRM 4 & LRM 5.

not during the same game mind you but like I said over the course of his pilot's 20 RL career and retired him at 0/0 p/g skill.
I guess I am trying to say is that it can happen, not very often unless you are lucky.

Sorry.. didn't mean to be so long winded just have a hard time condensing things at times.

[SnagaDance]

You talk about the absurdity of plot armor and then bring up warriors like Aidan Pryde (Imma kill all these Comstar mechs on my own) or Joanna (Yeah, I totally got pasted by the Black Widow but I've got deadly jumpjets, even though jumpjets have never ever done any damage to other mechs ever)?

[VinJade]

One thing to remember, heavily damaged mechs will fall fairly easily to a stiff wind so a Small laser isn't that far fetched.
remember Comstar was fighting Clan units non-stop so they will be heavily damaged.

Thus canon reasons for that.

As for the JJs, just because they are not used like that doesn't mean it couldn't happen, though I agree was a cheap death for such a warrior.

On a side note, remember JJs are described as ether using super heated plasma or super heated air and then sent out thus one could argue that JJs can in fact be used as weapons of last resort.

[Sadistic Savior]

Natasha Kerensky. I didn't know there was even a debate on this. Her accomplishments surpass every other character in the Battletech universe.

[VinJade]

@SS
That's why Black Widow is on the top of my list .
also iirc wasn't she like a heart throb at the time in canon?

[Sadistic Savior]

The Jade Phoenix would be #2 I think. That is probably the best trilogy in the entire BT genre. Joanna is still one of the best written chatacters (better written and more interesting than Natasha Kerensky).

Natasha Kerensky is so good that she falls flat in the series. She's basically God mode. It's hard to write an interesting story around a character like that.

[SnagaDance]

Sadistic Savior, on 05 June 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

The Jade Phoenix would be #2 I think. That is probably the best trilogy in the entire BT genre. Joanna is still one of the best written chatacters (better written and more interesting than Natasha Kerensky).

Natasha Kerensky is so good that she falls flat in the series. She's basically God mode. It's hard to write an interesting story around a character like that.

Tastes differ I guess. I find Robert Thurston a very boring writer, whose characters feel very flat, like cardboard cut-outs. I still like his books for the view they offer into (a) Clan society but not for much more. They are some of my least re-read BattleTech books.

I can't say I've really read a lot about Natasha Kerensky, there's the Natasha you get from the Blood of Kerensky books, who is this seasoned veteran who isn't about to take some crap from a back of ageists back home and is willing to bloody a few noses to make the point come home. For the rest I only know of a few short stories spanning anything from pre-4th succesion war to the war of 3039. She didn't come across as god mode to me in those stories, more like someone who is hampered by her own anger issues.

[Karl Streiger]

SnagaDance, on 06 June 2016 - 02:37 AM, said:

I can't say I've really read a lot about Natasha Kerensky, there's the Natasha you get from the Blood of Kerensky books, who is this seasoned veteran who isn't about to take some crap from a back of ageists back home and is willing to bloody a few noses to make the point come home. For the rest I only know of a few short stories spanning anything from pre-4th succesion war to the war of 3039. She didn't come across as god mode to me in those stories, more like someone who is hampered by her own anger issues.

A good read - "Hector"
working for House Marik the Dragoons invade Hesperus II.

After battle becomes a stalemate. During a meeting, Wolf asks if there is a way to win. And Natascha says "No". That was enough for Wolf to order a retreat. So simple.

Regarding jump jets after the incident of Joanna vs Natascha JJ as physical weapons became a rule. Doesn't change the "skill" rating of her.

[SnagaDance]

Karl Streiger, on 06 June 2016 - 02:50 AM, said:

working for House Marik the Dragoons invade Hesperus II.

After battle becomes a stalemate. During a meeting, Wolf asks if there is a way to win. And Natascha says "No". That was enough for Wolf to order a retreat. So simple.

Well, if your most aggressive and stubborn (and probably skilled) warrior tells you there's no way to win there's probably no wat to win.

Btw, while I consider Natasha a great warrior I do not consider her a great unit leader, maybe a Battalion at most. IIRC she even says something along those lines to Jaime when they're at some kind of low point (can't recall the source), saying it was the right decision they made Jaime the leader of the Dragoons and not her (the high ranking Bloodname Ristar Kerensky).