31 replies to this topic

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Ok... I know the Jenner has the XL300 because it needed that extra DHS to set it apart from the ECM carrying 3L back when ECM first came out. But... I think it'd be ok to give a mech that can't mount JJ the same XL300 engine to let it run better cooling than the fire starter.

In the end only the one with the XL315 offers something different enough to make it worth playing.

[jss78]

The WLF is definitely a case where the need to level out three chassis is a bit painful. However much I look at the variants, my preferred loadout would be exactly the same for all three. The quirks aren't strong enough to "force my hand" in any of them (which is a good thing, mind you). I think I'll end up GXP'ing the basics for at least one of them.

Sereglach, on 19 October 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

The quirks aren't really worth getting too wound up over. We've had Phase 2 of the re-balance, with Phase 3 apparently only going to be a few weeks off (of which we'll have no idea what it covers). These are just quickly plugged in reasonable, but not overpowering, quirks to ensure that the mech is at least somewhat competitive until the Rebalance fully happens.

We already know that every mech is getting entirely different quirks once the rebalance hits.

Now, once the rebalance happens, then we should be paying attention to what quirks look like for mechs, to make sure that none are overbearing. No one really complains too much if a mech is released too weak and then gets a buff. People would utterly lose their minds if a mech was released too strong and then needs a nerf.

Yeah, with the quirks PGI really can't win right now ... give it moderate placeholder quirks and people will complain about that, or give it bigger "old style" quirks and people will complain about nerfbat when the rebalance lands. I agree that only relevant thing is how the mech is handled in the rebalance, and how the rebalance works out in general.

[TinFoilHat]

Shame that there's literally nothing on these mechs to make me want to pick them over any of my FS9's. More dust covers needed in my hangar.

[Twilight Fenrir]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 19 October 2015 - 06:07 PM, said:

Ok... I know the Jenner has the XL300 because it needed that extra DHS to set it apart from the ECM carrying 3L back when ECM first came out. But... I think it'd be ok to give a mech that can't mount JJ the same XL300 engine to let it run better cooling than the fire starter.

In the end only the one with the XL315 offers something different enough to make it worth playing.

Whaa? The Jenner had a 300 from the word 'go'. The Raven was just a twinkle in PGI's eye when that decision was made. I've been playing MWO since there were only 4 mechs, and 2 maps

The 300 only offers an extra heatsink if you run out of crit slots otherwise, with both ferro and endo, it's possible.. But not likely... It just doesn't have the tonnage...

[Kotzi]

Yay, a mech.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Twilight Fenrir, on 20 October 2015 - 05:12 AM, said:

Whaa? The Jenner had a 300 from the word 'go'. The Raven was just a twinkle in PGI's eye when that decision was made. I've been playing MWO since there were only 4 mechs, and 2 maps

The 300 only offers an extra heatsink if you run out of crit slots otherwise, with both ferro and endo, it's possible.. But not likely... It just doesn't have the tonnage...

6ML and 6SPL builds have the tonnage but not the space with endo/ferro for the extra heatsink if you strip a bit of armor


JR7-F needs it and it'd be really helpful on the 6 hard point wolfhounds

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 20 October 2015 - 07:17 AM.

[Grayson Sortek]

jaxjace, on 19 October 2015 - 02:00 PM, said:

Wow forget the lack of quirks, forget the useless quirks, 3 mechs with the SAME loadout? tsk tsk, i think we all would have been fine with some apocryphal variants.

Not only that... but they all come with standard engines...
Who, may I ask, is going to run these engines?

[Gas Guzzler]

Grayson Sortek, on 20 October 2015 - 07:44 AM, said:

Not only that... but they all come with standard engines...
Who, may I ask, is going to run these engines?

They are going to be upgraded with 5 million C-bill XL engines. It is part of the IS Mech Tax that Clan mechs already include when you buy them, that is the XL engine, double heat sinks, and endo/ferro where applicable. There is a reason IS mechs are so much cheaper!

[Desintegrator]

Oh man - that Mech need a complete re-design !

Great that I didn't bought this package.

[grendeldog]

I will attempt to withhold judgement until I have actually played it later today, but this looks like an inferior FS9.

I understand that the upcoming rebalance will mean that any quirks given now will be replaced. But why on earth wouldn't you give this mech some hefty armor or structure quirks since it has no JJs and crap weapon quirks?

I would really enjoy playing that - quite hardy but with weapons mostly unquirked. It would be the sort of inverse of the firestarter, a mech that could actually spend time at the front but wouldn't have the killer las-boat aspect to compensate for that toughness.

[K19]

FIX Wolfhound use finish work the Panther plz

[Mad Porthos]

Two comments, regarding the Wolfhound, general and specific. The first comment is regarding the jump jetlessness and comparing it to a jenner. While both are at 35 tons, and the engine size varies a little on the max, down to 295 and up to 315 for one variant, there are reasons to use it over firestarters, ravens and spiders - it handles differently. Obvious I know, cause of the no jump jets, but more to the point turn rates are slight buffed, torso twist is different from the jenner given the humanoid torso, having arm mount for an off centerline big energy is going to be different than most firestarters. No high mount on those arms mean it sure isn't raven style in piloting, no jj means not spider style. It has its own little niche and some get a mech because it is different at it's particular weight point/class than other mechs and thus a challenge to use well. This is not to say this is a challenge like... oh it's a bad mech, so I will prove I'm a good pilot by doing well even in it, either. Just it's a different way of approaching it than what you developed for doing well in other mechs in that same weight, engine range with different features.

The specific thing I had to point out, was about AMS. It's been stated it's a waste of tonnage. As things stand in its use, .5 tons on equipment and a single ton of ammo, is a waste when you are the only one sporting it and it points out that you are there right behind that ridge. But I have been on teams that for funs, deliberately brought every mech with an AMS. Some mechs ran 2, like the 2 jesters we were running, filled with MPL. The Jesters ran 2 ams, overload, range modules and like 2 tons AMS ammo, before they increased the AMS rounds for tonnage to match clan. The enemy team, as was common at that precise time, was fairly heavy on ECM, but also had spotters and both clan and IS missiles. The clan missiles became utterly useless against our team any time two or three mechs were in AMS range of each other. Cross fire took out whole streamed volleys, one after another from multiple mechs. When focused missiles started dropping on pushes, our Jesters moved right into the range and shielded mechs making pushes in areas that had open ground but that would result in good flanking action or splitting the enemy positions. IS volleys, even full LRM40-60 just vaporized as they started dropping into our radius. We had no ECM, vs. their combo of IS/Clan ECM. Their NARC attempts were utterly useless and the tagging pretty ineffective. We won. Repeatedly. Group queue, admittedly and then later private matches it showed AMS had a place, when taken as a group choice, which it never is in the public group queue. But when you have mechs that can run 2 AMS, they are worth consideration when you are in a group and one or two other buddies are willing to run similar setups. You then can work as a suppression lance. I have literally parked such a lance next to enemies under hard cover - situations where we really couldn't advance on them without being face melted, due to dire stars and whatnot, and watched as teammates then flanked wide to get good direct fire angles and ignored the warhawks and catapults full of missiles that tried to dissuade those flanking manuvers, their missile streams vaporizing before they made much of an ARC towards our teamates. Inevitably, when they realized the suppression, we would see thier push break up thier position and even though our suppression team would then scatter, usually the flanks were in great position to really finish them off. Done this way, an group of 3-4 in group queue really can make a repeated difference to games they are matchmade in. Wolfhounds with 2 AMS might actually be a better use of tonnage than a Jester to play this AMS role.

I know, this is the era of the direct fire meta totally, but again in group queue, you do really see missiles in profusion periodically. Certain events bring it out, certain new mechs and quirk changes as well. If PTS changes from recent runs ever come in regarding information warfare, you will see more LRMs as well, so AMS bears consideration in general as well as how to use that 2 AMS wolfhound.

Edited by Mad Porthos, 21 October 2015 - 06:11 AM.