385 replies to this topic

[IraqiWalker]

Rampage, on 25 February 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

I will admit that I have not read every single post in this thread.

I have seen lore cited to support Alphas. While it is true that it is possible for all Mechs to Alpha strike in lore it is not something that is easily repeatable like it is in MWO. An Alpha comes with extreme negative consequences in lore and that should be mirrored in MWO. It is more of an "Oh, $hit" move or a desperation winning blow.

Using an Alpha should result in extreme heat which threatens Mech shut down and impairs its ability to function normally until it cools down. Some of these impairments should be reduced engine performance which should cut movement speed and torso twist up to 50% for an extended period of time. Two Alphas in a row should result in shutdown without fail.

The problem, as I see it right now, is that there is not sufficient negative consequences to using multiple Alpha strikes. I have no issue with being subjected to one if I put myself in a position to receive one. If my opponent is skilled enough to hit me in the right place and kill me with one shot then so be it. However, if he goes for broke and does not kill me then the advantage should shift to me and he should have to suffer the consequences. What I have a major problem with is my opponent being able to fire 2-4 consecutive Alphas without suffering major negative repercussions. No where in lore is something like that supported and although MWOnline is a shooter, it is not Unreal Tournament, Halo, CS. etc. It is Mechwarrior/BattleTech and needs to play like it.

You want to Alpha strike me with your Meta Stormcrow laser boat? Fine, you better kill me and be out of sight of my team then because you will be dealing with 1/2 your normal speed and reduced torso twist for the next 10-15 seconds. Alpha me twice in a row? OK but then you stand there as a target for about 5-10 seconds.

Heat and more negative consequences due to overheating is the answer to controlling laservomit or any other form of Alpha abuse IMO.

Your entire post supports one thing we've been asking for, for a long time: Heat penalties. If your mech sustains high heat percentages for a long time, there should be repercussions. Currently there are none, unless you pass the 120% threshold. That's a big problem here.

Also, I hugely disagree on Alphas being something that is not repeatable, there are entire mechs built solely around being heat neutral so they can alpha non-stop. At least one of the Awesome variants was heat neutral with 3 PPCs, that's an alpha strike every turn.

Of course, we can bring in ballistic only mechs that were heat neutral for little tonnage investment into heatsinks, and we're firing in alpha strike mode almost all the time.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 02 March 2016 - 01:52 PM.

[Speedy Pinky]

Why not make a Bonus/Malus System?

I take as example IS Medium Lasers ... 1-6 (make 5 Damage per Laser)
1 Laser +10% Damage (5,5 Damage)
2 Lasers Neutral (10 Damage)
3 Lasers -10% Damage (13,5 Damage)
4 Lasers -20% Damage (16 Damage)
5 Lasers -30% Damage (17,5 Damage)
6 Lasers -40% Damage (18 Damage)

So boating 1 Type of Lasers will be ineffective!
So its better have more type of Lasers witch will need skill to use it properly.
Of corse its possible to take a another %

Its only a idea ...

[Gattsus]

Speedy Pinky, on 26 February 2016 - 01:58 AM, said:

Why not make a Bonus/Malus System?

I take as example IS Medium Lasers ... 1-6 (make 5 Damage per Laser)
1 Laser +10% Damage (5,5 Damage)
2 Lasers Neutral (10 Damage)
3 Lasers -10% Damage (13,5 Damage)
4 Lasers -20% Damage (16 Damage)
5 Lasers -30% Damage (17,5 Damage)
6 Lasers -40% Damage (18 Damage)

So boating 1 Type of Lasers will be ineffective!
So its better have more type of Lasers witch will need skill to use it properly.
Of corse its possible to take a another %

Its only a idea ...

I thought about it, but it would mean adding another supper complicated and obscure/bizarre mechanic to MWO. I had enough with ghost heat.

If not cone of fire, another heat related mechanic would be easier to implement(?)

Edited by Gattsus, 26 February 2016 - 03:30 AM.

[DivineEvil]

Widowmaker1981, on 25 February 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

OK, well i defintely never played during a time of 3 dmg SRMs, to my knowledge. When i started playing the HGN-733C was considered the best mech i think? Either that or the Dragon Slayer. At that time i definitely preferred AC5+PPC builds to lasers, and i was never much of a poptarter, and to be quite honest that would still be the case if it wasn't for the large buff to Pulse lasers along with the PPCs having their velocity stomped into the floor.

Dragon Slayers, and a 733Cs if you didn't have MCs to spare. Even if lasers would work "fine" back then, mind the fact, that it was even before Project Phoenix, where 6 energy hardpoints were considered standard maximum, with exception for HBK-SP, that would usually loose 7 out of 9 lasers after a one-two alphas from those same PPC+AC/5s.

Quote

I can see your point about the effectiveness of heatsinks being increased being a good thing. Stacking a mech full of DHS doesn't do what it should (but it DOES still do something. Adding heatsinks has got a noticeable benefit) - but your system definitely causes Clan/IS balance issues without inventing a new item, which i don't think PGI will do. In the current system that imbalance still exists, as you say, but its much less game changing.

What kind of issues? Clans has hotter weapons, Clans have to get better heat management, Clans have 1-2 ton lighter weapons, that they can use to install more heatsinks, otherwise they'd had to face poor efficiency. No issues here.

Sure, Clans potentially install more heatsinks, but it's just a potential - like I've said, being able to do something does not gives you an inherent advantage, you'd still has to realize it somehow, for a price. It is true for Atlas/DWF engine swapping case, and it is true here. Even if a Clan mech can carry more heatsinks, question is the weapons these heatsinks can support. IS mechs usually do not really need more DHS, than they're limited to due to lower-heat weapons. At the moment Clans have even less reasons to make choices around heatsinks either, because of how horrible they've became...

I have a separate outlook for how to balance IS/Clans generally, to partially compensate for that Clan advantage if both faction would get equally good 2.0 DHS, but it's a broad off-topic.

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Light mechs.. well. I see your point, but i ask what other choice they have if they want to be relevant? Part of me doesn't care. i'm not a light pilot anyway (other than the adder, which plays more like a medium), and instinctively i think bigger should equal better. Tonnage is opportunity cost... but PGI wants light mechs to be relevant in their own right so...

We have all those Lights, some with machineguns, some with SRMs, some fit for heavier Energy weapons and some even for heavier ballistics, but lower engine. Nevertheless, the only relevant of them are Firestarters, just because they not only can boat shitloads of lasers, that others can't, but they also can alpha-strike them reliably, and there's never an issue for them of choosing between a heavier alpha and more reliable heat management. With inflated heat capacity, heat management is never difficult beyond efficiency (except for SHS), and removing or downgrading weapons for additional heatsinks is never viable, because of how petty additional heatsinks are to base values and engine heatsinks.

The only non-laser vomit Lights viable right now are Oxides, because of how they can boat alpha-strike SRMs for achieving similar one-shot power, colder and instant hit, but not as accurate and not as far, and again, supported by inflated heat capacity.

So what can help Lights to stay relevant? Lower TTK, that my values would bring. Quirks, that respond to relative heat intensity and not to just reinforce boating laser-vomit approach. Heatsinks, that are not impeding Lights for using smaller engines with more external heatsinks. A system, where you can be useful without being able to leg an enemy Light with one alpha-strike, will certainly help all those Urbie and Raven fans.

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To be honest, having thought about it, and with you specific system of heatcap = 2xDHS x skills (simply removing the 30 heat cap from the equation and buffing DHS to 2.0), the balance implications, and its effect on lights, are the only problems i have with it, because mechs that stack plenty of DHS would still have the capacity to alpha.

Exactly! Because alpha-strikes is a powerful tool in MWO, where there's a convergence without stupid random cones of fires and stuff. You want to alpha-strike hard? Take SRMs, and sacrifice accuracy and range. Want dat accuracy? Try to find tonnage and space for AC/20. Don't have tonnage, but want accuracy? Get shitload of lasers, but then you'd have to also invest into heat management and watch your heat at all times. And if you stack a lot of heatsinks, then you'd sacrifice something for it, whether it's armor, engine rating or the actual weapons. And if your mech is big enough like DWF to mount some of everything, then at least you will not be able to poke safely, like Blackjacks or Thunderbolts can.

If you just don't want to deal with all that crap, just make a mixed loadout - maybe a little laser alpha, and a little SRM alpha, or a mix of DPS ballistics and a bunch of lasers to add accuracy when it's relevant. Then you will be able to use your heat adaptively, without thinking "oh but I place myself into disadvantage, because all those laser-vomiters are going to nuke me into oblivion".

As of now, all weapons require you to invest into something and deal with strict limitations or complexities, but not with lasers. Just stick as many as Ghost Heat allows you to alpha, and fill out the remaining space with heatsinks, and you're ready to go.

[Widowmaker1981]

DivineEvil, on 26 February 2016 - 05:41 AM, said:

As of now, all weapons require you to invest into something and deal with strict limitations or complexities, but not with lasers. Just stick as many as Ghost Heat allows you to alpha, and fill out the remaining space with heatsinks, and you're ready to go.

But, if you wanted to Laser vomit with your system, thats exactly what you would do anyway, minus the ghost heat consideration (you were going to remove that, right?). I dont think the standard Timber build (2xLPL, 4xERML, 25DHS) would change at all, and would actually be quite significantly buffed (can still alpha since 50 heatcap is enough, dissipates faster).

Only change is you might see bigger mechs running 3 or 4 LPLs instead since no more ghost heat.

[DivineEvil]

Widowmaker1981, on 26 February 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

But, if you wanted to Laser vomit with your system, thats exactly what you would do anyway, minus the ghost heat consideration (you were going to remove that, right?). I dont think the standard Timber build (2xLPL, 4xERML, 25DHS) would change at all, and would actually be quite significantly buffed (can still alpha since 50 heatcap is enough, dissipates faster).

Only change is you might see bigger mechs running 3 or 4 LPLs instead since no more ghost heat.

Yes, but then it would be significantly limited by capacity, that only depends on your heatsinks alone, and sometimes you'd have to sacrifice engine size just to achieve an alpha without overheating. What I meant by my thesis, is that you place heatsinks on top of weapons, just because there's no point to add more weapons due to Ghost Heat penalties, and engine is already maxed.

I'm not a Clan player by all possible means, but I think Clans need to be rebuffed. Capacity bonus of 1.1 is just silly, it's basically an attempt to achieve a goal I propose, but by making heatsinks even less worthy of their tonnage and without touching dissipation at all.

As for Laser-vomit timbers particularly, it's more of a deal with C-LPLs, than anything else. A pulse laser, that deals more damage over longer range for less tonnage and space compared to PPC, is a bit broken in it's own right. Otherwise I'm fine with them being able to alpha-strike, considering the amount of podspace it takes to handle it.

Edited by DivineEvil, 26 February 2016 - 07:47 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

DivineEvil, on 26 February 2016 - 07:44 AM, said:

Yes, but then it would be significantly limited by capacity, that only depends on your heatsinks alone, and sometimes you'd have to sacrifice engine size just to achieve an alpha without overheating. What I meant by my thesis, is that you place heatsinks on top of weapons, just because there's no point to add more weapons due to Ghost Heat penalties, and engine is already maxed.

Not really. A Timber can currently only alpha twice before shutting down or waiting for some time, and with your system the same mech would be able to alpha once, and then fire more far more frequently than before due to hugely buffed dissipation.

I don't think your system would hurt laser vomit as a playstyle, i think it would buff it. Yes it prevents people getting away with 10 DHS, but its not laser vomit mechs doing that, outside of some lights, who arent the problem. Thinking about it the mechs it would actually hurt most are the Dakka and Splat builds that run minimum DHS - 3 heat per second dissipation and only 20 heat cap is going to ruin/remove the dakka mauler for example, because it would overheat in ~4-5 seconds. (yes, thats contrary to what i originally thought).

[DivineEvil]

Widowmaker1981, on 26 February 2016 - 07:55 AM, said:

Not really. A Timber can currently only alpha twice before shutting down or waiting for some time, and with your system the same mech would be able to alpha once, and then fire more far more frequently than before due to hugely buffed dissipation.

That's the idea. Instead of executing other mechs by two consecutive alphas, laser-vomit timber will have to play more dynamically, and encountering enemies with new Flamers would be more risky, than it is now. On the other hand, it would have to stand by much less waiting to cool-off. The reason why Timber-vomits are deadly now is exactly that they can laser-vomit you two times in a row, which is enough to achieve kill.

Quote

I don't think your system would hurt laser vomit as a playstyle, i think it would buff it. Yes it prevents people getting away with 10 DHS, but its not laser vomit mechs doing that, outside of some lights, who arent the problem. Thinking about it the mechs it would actually hurt most are the Dakka and Splat builds that run minimum DHS - 3 heat per second dissipation and only 20 heat cap is going to ruin/remove the dakka mauler for example, because it would overheat in ~4-5 seconds. (yes, thats contrary to what i originally thought).

Any mechs, that would not supply enough heatsinks, would suffer. All mechs, that can laser-vomit without heatsinks is a problem, and all mechs, that can alpha-strike several times in a row is a problem.

And yes, changes will affect all extreme cases. It will generally make it harder to burst someone down, and easier to fight over time. Dakka-maulers, Dakka-wolfs and UltraCrabs are not exception to the rule. Standard AC/5s are complete garbage when compared to UAC/5s - unless you don't have space to mount two UACs where you want them, there's no reason to prefer former over latter. Heat changes would require additional considerations and tonnage spending to maintain UAC boats. Whenever PGI would want them to perform persistently, then they can give these mechs Ballistic Heat Reduction. At this moment, these quirks barely exist and utterly meaningless, unlike Missile and Energy heat modifiers. You can unload UACs all over the place and never bother with heat whatsoever, which again shows, that there's a flaw in the system.

Edited by DivineEvil, 26 February 2016 - 09:48 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

DivineEvil, on 26 February 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

That's the idea. Instead of executing other mechs by two consecutive alphas, laser-vomit timber will have to play more dynamically, and encountering enemies with new Flamers would be more risky, than it is now. On the other hand, it would have to stand by much less waiting to cool-off. The reason why Timber-vomits are deadly now is exactly that they can laser-vomit you two times in a row, which is enough to achieve kill.


Any mechs, that would not supply enough heatsinks, would suffer. All mechs, that can laser-vomit without heatsinks is a problem, and all mechs, that can alpha-strike several times in a row is a problem.

And yes, changes will affect all extreme cases. It will generally make it harder to burst someone down, and easier to fight over time. Dakka-maulers, Dakka-wolfs and UltraCrabs are not exception to the rule. Standard AC/5s are complete garbage when compared to UAC/5s - unless you don't have space to mount two UACs where you want them, there's no reason to prefer former over latter. Heat changes would require additional considerations and tonnage spending to maintain UAC boats. Whenever PGI would want them to perform persistently, then they can give these mechs Ballistic Heat Reduction. At this moment, these quirks barely exist and utterly meaningless, unlike Missile and Energy heat modifiers. You can unload UACs all over the place and never bother with heat whatsoever, which again shows, that there's a flaw in the system.

I still think that if your end goal is to reduce the dominance of laser boating, that your method doesn't achieve it. In fact it would get a lot worse if you removed ghost heat and implemented this.

Single method of delivery weapon type boats will always be popular, because its easy to use, and ease of use = reliability, even for the most skilled.

Your method forces even ballistic and SRM based boats to equip DHS where they didnt need to before, and since their ammo requirement remains the same, they are effectively nerfed, in build terms.

Energy based boats already stack as many heatsinks as possible, so their builds dont need to change, except that now the ghost heat requirement is lifted they have more options (ghost heat affects energy by far the most). In build terms they are buffed.

Your 'two alphas to death' belief with current timber type vomit being the problem wouldnt get better, but simply move mechs and get worse. Take a 4xCLPL warhawk with 28 DHS. It has, in your system:
52 Alpha
40 heat
3.82s cooldown (3.25sx0.83 + 1.12)
67.2 heat cap (56*1.2)
7.59 h/s dissipation

So, it fires and does 52 dmg at 660m. it generates 40 heat, leaving 27.2 heat remaining. Over the next 3.82 seconds as the LPLs are cooling it dissipates 28.99 heat, leaving it with a capacity of 56.19. It can now alpha again immediately, leaving it with 16.19, increasing back up to 45.18, can alpha again, and finally after 3 consecutive alphas it needs to wait. It can fire its weapons every 5.27s forever without building heat.

In my opinion, in your system, clan energy boats would be the only thing that was relevant. everything else is nerfed, they are ENORMOUSLY buffed.

Edit: id need to work the numbers, but id put money on the 5LPL Banshee-3M and similar large IS energy boats being buffed strongly as well, and actually mixed energy/ballisitic type builds would be buffed too, since the 5-8 extra DHS they mount anyway would mean more. But not by much.

Effectively buffing the crap out of DHS is not going to reduce the dominance of the type of mech that already stacks as many DHS as possible.. in smaller (non assault) mechs it will VERY slightly reduce the alpha they bring, at the expense of buffing their dps through the roof, while being nothing but nerfs for mechs that currently dont need DHS (NOT energy boats)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 26 February 2016 - 12:16 PM.

[Strength Damage Cliff Racer]

While we can have long chat about how inefficient clan heatsinks now in terms of heat containment, it's still possible to fire 6 med lasers then 6 small lasers and then still throw 1 more in one sequence without overheating in rather exotic places such as Therma circle or Caustic crater, running on full speed. Chews legs like cookies and, since many ballistic/missile mechs pack their ammo in legs if they got free slots there…
While it's hilarious and wonky ping severely cuts your damage, this ability alone is broken as hell.
Oh, and it's not possible on IS mechs. Simply can't have enough laser hardpoints and pod space/tonnage to pull it off, plus overall damage is lower. While IS can trade (in fact, with a bit of turn-o-war magic, XL thunderbolts beat timber vomit 1 v 1) they can't alpha for sh*t. Not to mention very short ranges, quirks or not.

[DivineEvil]

Widowmaker1981, on 26 February 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

Your method forces even ballistic and SRM based boats to equip DHS where they didnt need to before, and since their ammo requirement remains the same, they are effectively nerfed, in build terms.

Boats that use reasonable loadouts wouldn't need anything extra.

Quote

Energy based boats already stack as many heatsinks as possible, so their builds dont need to change, except that now the ghost heat requirement is lifted they have more options (ghost heat affects energy by far the most). In build terms they are buffed.

But int terms of longetivity in open fight they will suffer.

Quote

Take a 4xCLPL warhawk with 28 DHS. It has, in your system:

52 Alpha
40 heat
3.82s cooldown (3.25sx0.83 + 1.12)
67.2 heat cap (56*1.2)
7.59 h/s dissipation

So, it fires and does 52 dmg at 660m. it generates 40 heat, leaving 27.2 heat remaining. Over the next 3.82 seconds as the LPLs are cooling it dissipates 28.99 heat, leaving it with a capacity of 56.19. It can now alpha again immediately, leaving it with 16.19, increasing back up to 45.18, can alpha again, and finally after 3 consecutive alphas it needs to wait. It can fire its weapons every 5.27s forever without building heat.

Compare it to current heat system.

same 52 alpha
59.12 heat alpha, or same 40 via dual-group chainfire.
same 3.82s cooldown
83.76 capacity
5.4 h/s dissipation

It fires 52 dmg at 660m. 83.76 - 59.12 = 24.64. Over next 6,4 seconds you get another round to fire. Then you stuck with cooling off for 11 seconds. Alternatively, you attach those lasers in pairs and shoot them two-by-two with 0.5s delay, which means almost nothing when you see where you shoot. 83.76 - 40.0 = 43.76. While you recharge, you regain 20,6 heat, and fire again. And again. And again. Abusing Ghost Heat imperfection, you can fire four barrages in a row.

Again, problem is with CLPLs, not with the system. You can use them in whatver examples fit your outlook, but it wont change it.

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Edit: id need to work the numbers, but id put money on the 5LPL Banshee-3M and similar large IS energy boats being buffed strongly as well, and actually mixed energy/ballisitic type builds would be buffed too, since the 5-8 extra DHS they mount anyway would mean more. But not by much.

Sure, run math, see how much they output before being stuck overheat in the middle of combat.

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Effectively buffing the crap out of DHS is not going to reduce the dominance of the type of mech that already stacks as many DHS as possible..

Mechs that stack DHS can afford to perform as well as they would. Removed base hit capacity will hit alpha-strikes substantially anyway. And returning DHS parameters to original values is not "buffing the crap out" of them.

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in smaller (non assault) mechs it will VERY slightly reduce the alpha they bring, at the expense of buffing their dps through the roof, while being nothing but nerfs for mechs that currently dont need DHS (NOT energy boats)

It will severely limit the efficiency of all of those alphas. Most (possibly all) alpha-strike mechs will be limited to one alpha before reaching dangerous heat levels, whether then need DHS now or not. How many times do I need to tell, that I don't biased against any builds? I'm against repetative alpha-strikes, crippled brawling/skirmishing and insane cool-off times.

Edited by DivineEvil, 26 February 2016 - 03:19 PM.

[Jettrik Ryflix]

The game already has built-in solutions for high alpha.

1. Don't stand still.
2. Don't run straight.
3. When you expect to be hit, turn your torso to spread damage.

The idea that pinpoint weapons should have a "cone" spreading effect, or that they should damage nearby components is ridiculous. What is the point of aiming then? Why even have targeting data? It removes the skill from this skill-based game.

[Widowmaker1981]

DivineEvil, on 26 February 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

Boats that use reasonable loadouts wouldn't need anything extra.

But int terms of longetivity in open fight they will suffer.

Compare it to current heat system.

same 52 alpha
59.12 heat alpha, or same 40 via dual-group chainfire.
same 3.82s cooldown
83.76 capacity
5.4 h/s dissipation

It fires 52 dmg at 660m. 83.76 - 59.12 = 24.64. Over next 6,4 seconds you get another round to fire. Then you stuck with cooling off for 11 seconds. Alternatively, you attach those lasers in pairs and shoot them two-by-two with 0.5s delay, which means almost nothing when you see where you shoot. 83.76 - 40.0 = 43.76. While you recharge, you regain 20,6 heat, and fire again. And again. And again. Abusing Ghost Heat imperfection, you can fire four barrages in a row.

Again, problem is with CLPLs, not with the system. You can use them in whatver examples fit your outlook, but it wont change it.


Sure, run math, see how much they output before being stuck overheat in the middle of combat.

Mechs that stack DHS can afford to perform as well as they would. Removed base hit capacity will hit alpha-strikes substantially anyway. And returning DHS parameters to original values is not "buffing the crap out" of them.

It will severely limit the efficiency of all of those alphas. Most (possibly all) alpha-strike mechs will be limited to one alpha before reaching dangerous heat levels, whether then need DHS now or not. How many times do I need to tell, that I don't biased against any builds? I'm against repetative alpha-strikes, crippled brawling/skirmishing and insane cool-off times.

But your system doesnt fix any of that! take your example, the exact same mech has 16 more heat cap, but 2.2 less h/s in the current system. it takes ~7.2 seconds for the additional dissipation to overcome the cap deficit and after that its all buffs - its actually far better in sustained combat, and since ive already demonstrated it can alpha 3 times back to back, which is about 7.3s.. its purely buffed in every form.

You cannot remove ghost heat. Boating identical long range lasers/ppcs en masse is simply too powerful, and limiting the stats of the individual weapons to prevent that makes them useless in smaller numbers. An arbitrary system is, in my opinion, needed. Ballistics are limited by damage per ton and space, even the heaviest mechs cannot get too silly. Missiles are short ranged. Large class lasers and PPCs are the perfect storm of high damage low tonnage and, if allowed, boating tons of them (with sufficient heatsinks) and alphaing will always be the go to strategy.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 26 February 2016 - 05:14 PM.

[Richard Warts]

@this thread

#pillowwarrior.com

#nerfskillz

#shootersshouldonlybelikeCoD - Brainless crap

[Richard Warts]

Jettrik Ryflix, on 26 February 2016 - 04:03 PM, said:

The game already has built-in solutions for high alpha.

1. Don't stand still.
2. Don't run straight.
3. When you expect to be hit, turn your torso to spread damage.

The idea that pinpoint weapons should have a "cone" spreading effect, or that they should damage nearby components is ridiculous. What is the point of aiming then? Why even have targeting data? It removes the skill from this skill-based game.

F#^@king thank you! Nail on the head.

I think this is just a backdoor buff to LRMs so that pillowarriors won't have to learn the game at all, instead just hold a lock (thoughtfully provided by another teammate), hide away from the fight, and click a button.

[Richard Warts]

Speedy Pinky, on 26 February 2016 - 01:58 AM, said:

Why not make a Bonus/Malus System?

I take as example IS Medium Lasers ... 1-6 (make 5 Damage per Laser)
1 Laser +10% Damage (5,5 Damage)
2 Lasers Neutral (10 Damage)
3 Lasers -10% Damage (13,5 Damage)
4 Lasers -20% Damage (16 Damage)
5 Lasers -30% Damage (17,5 Damage)
6 Lasers -40% Damage (18 Damage)

So boating 1 Type of Lasers will be ineffective!
So its better have more type of Lasers witch will need skill to use it properly.
Of corse its possible to take a another %

Its only a idea ...

I have a better idea,

learn to Mechwarrior?

Aiming, focus fire, and teamwork helps a lot too.

[Richard Warts]

For all of the "but in lore this.... and lore that...." I have some news for you: It's far too late in game development to go back. If you want a more authentic to lore Mechwarrior game, then lobby another game developer to make one - rather than trashing this game. All of these attempts at backpedaling alienates and incenses players who've spent a lot of time and money on this game only to have everything they know turned over on it's head; again, and again.

That's not to say that balance changes aren't needed, but swinging the nerf pendulum too far in any direction or completely reworking the games mechanics this late in the games life is absurd!

To reiterate, if you wanted Lore than you shouldn't have allowed us to customize mechs much in the first place! If you hate stacked weapon systems like laser-boat mechs, or dakka mechs, then you shouldn't have put them in the game that allows you to customize their load-outs to begin with! Period!

Edited by Tabu 73, 26 February 2016 - 09:16 PM.

[Cy Mitchell]

IraqiWalker, on 26 February 2016 - 12:53 AM, said:

Your entire post supports one thing we've been asking for, for a long time: Heat penalties. If your mech sustains high heat percentages for a long time, there should be repercussions. Currently there are none, unless you pass the 120% threshold. That's a big problem here.

Also, I hugely disagree on Alphas being something that is not repeatable, there are entire mechs built solely around being heat neutral so they can alpha non-stop. At least one of the Awesome variants was heat neutral with 3 PPCs, that's an alpha strike every turn.

Of course, we can bring in ballistic only mechs that were heat neutral for little tonnage investment into heatsinks, and were firing in alpha strike mode almost all the time.

I do not disagree with this. Mechs that are built to do that pack a lot of heat sinks which limits the number of weapons they can carry. Therefore, their Alpha strike is not of the magnitude of some of the current meta lazer vomit builds. If you make enough sacrifices to be able to build a one button Mech then I am OK with it. I still think that there should be movement speed and torso twist penalties associated with exceeding or nearing the limit of your heat threshhold. Due to the fact that electronics hate heat, you could also experience sensor shut down of degraded sensors. I guess we will have to see how the newly announced heat system will deal with them. From what Russ said Alphas should become much much more rare. That is great news to me.

[Tarl Cabot]

vocifer, on 27 February 2016 - 05:55 AM, said:

Here's also a really good infodump:
https://www.reddit.c...ation_infodump/

Heat system viable to be REPLACED.

• Ghost heat fallible. Likely will be removed.
  
• Russ: "I don't like cresting a ridge and dying to a single alpha."
  
• Russ: "(High damage alpha strike) It should be a very, very rare thing."
  
• Russ: "You shouldn't be firing alphas every time you shoot."
  
• Will increase match time and Time To Kill (TTK).
  
• Too early for tournament build (possible public test by, at earliest, June)

[Tarl Cabot]

Speculation - Alphas will happen, but PGI's idea of an alpha is likely all or most of the mech's weapon load. Instead of big ghost heat when x amount of specific weapons are fired, it may be changed to minor ghost heat that happens when firing more than any one weapon, as well as no cooling effects while firing weapons, in the same manner that mech does not cool while using jump jets.

Not holding my breath on there being any negative heat scale effects added at lesser thresholds though.