63 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Mcchuggernaut, on 23 October 2015 - 08:50 AM, said:

Have you looked at the light queue lately? Go on, hover your cursor over the "PLAY NOW" button in-game.

Light mechs still the least popular mechs in the game.

Heavy mechs still the most popular.

Working as intended.

[FupDup]

Homeskilit, on 23 October 2015 - 04:01 PM, said:

Typical Clanner logic, "Streaks are weak but until they are buffed IS should not be able to use them at all"

I think you missed the part where I said that I don't like the Clans even having the larger launchers right now.

Also, this:



Your categorization of my desires for Streak mechanics as a "buff" is also not completely accurate. It would buff their effectiveness against larger and better armored mechs, but at the same time they would require some degree of actual effort to hit small mechs with, which is a nerf (to people who have faulty aim at least).

[Homeskilit]

FupDup, on 23 October 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

I think you missed the part where I said that I don't like the Clans even having the larger launchers right now.

No I saw it, I just felt that was too dumb to address. They are in the game and they have a role (destroying lights) so why remove them completely because they do not work the way you want them too? (And I am not disagreeing with what you want).

If the IS can build a Streak 2, there is no reason they cannot build a Streak 4 and 6, especially considering we have normal 4 and 6s.

FupDup, on 23 October 2015 - 04:04 PM, said:

Your categorization of my desires for Streak mechanics as a "buff" is also not completely accurate. It would buff their effectiveness against larger and better armored mechs, but at the same time they would require some degree of actual effort to hit small mechs with, which is a nerf (to people who have faulty aim at least).

I do not know about you, but where I come from we call "buff" a buff, no matter how small.

[FupDup]

Homeskilit, on 23 October 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

No I saw it, I just felt that was too dumb to address. They are in the game and they have a role (destroying lights) so why remove them completely because they do not work the way you want them too? (And I am not disagreeing with what you want).

If the IS can build a Streak 2, there is no reason they cannot build a Streak 4 and 6, especially considering we have normal 4 and 6s.

The "role" they have is a stupid role, that's my beef with the weapon system. I don't want them actually removed, I want them to stop being, for lack of a nicer word to describe it, a "crutch" weapon (Definition: they make it easier for new players to kill certain target types but in the hands of an experienced player they don't kill as fast as the best weapons available).

Homeskilit, on 23 October 2015 - 04:18 PM, said:

I do not know about you, but where I come from we call "buff" a buff, no matter how small.

It's a "buff" that simultaneously raises their skill floor, because people wouldn't be able to hit random parts of the target's body as long as their mouse cursor was "somewhere" within the big red targeting box. People would have to be able to actually focus on a smaller, single body part. The sounds easy on paper, but then look in-game at how many people can't do that with ballistics or lasers...

I guess it would be similar to when the Gauss Rifle got its charge-up mechanism. Made the weapon a lil bit harder to use, but PGI also gave a huge velocity buff at the same time (which meant that if you got used to the charge up, it was actually a net buff at the end of the day).

[Homeskilit]

FupDup, on 23 October 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

I don't want them actually removed

So why did you feel the need to call me out over the fact that I did not address your previous comment about you wanting them removed?

FupDup, on 23 October 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

I want them to stop being, for lack of a nicer word to describe it, a "crutch" weapon (Definition: they make it easier for new players to kill certain target types but in the hands of an experienced player they don't kill as fast as the best weapons available).

Sounds like what you really want is SRMs to be buffed considerably (which I do not disagree with).

FupDup, on 23 October 2015 - 04:25 PM, said:

It's a "buff" that simultaneously raises their skill floor, because people wouldn't be able to hit random parts of the target's body as long as their mouse cursor was "somewhere" within the big red targeting box. People would have to be able to actually focus on a smaller, single body part. The sounds easy on paper, but then look in-game at how many people can't do that with ballistics or lasers...

While I agree with you that it will functionally make Streaks better, I do not think they will raise the skill floor as much as you think.

Edited by Homeskilit, 23 October 2015 - 04:40 PM.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Alistair Winter, on 23 October 2015 - 03:51 PM, said:

You know light mechs die from laservomit if you have a decent aim, right? ACH's are not OP, you just haven't figured out how to leg light mechs. ACH's are not OP, your aim is bad.

This is known to me. It is true that sweeping the legs works. There are a few problems with it though. For one, it takes time. By the time you drive off a light that is harassing you, you have usually taken decent damage from him and often are targeted by the whole enemy team and swarmed, since you have to stop and keep your face to the light. If you try and run and catch up with your team, you get cored through the back by said light in seconds. You also often end up taking LRM fire too, since that light has you targeted. If all this wasn't bad enough, the light usually runs away and escapes once he realizes you are going for his legs, and so you get denied a kill for all your trouble. You end up dead without even the satisfaction of one kill. Another problem is that if a light is ridge-humping, or looking down at you from a ledge above you, there isn't a way to hit the legs at all. So even if your aim is immaculate, you still potentially have all these problems. Then there are those particularly dim teams that will shoot at the chest of a light that's running around with two red legs...

Now, a Mad Dog loaded with streaks, on the other hand, solves nearly all of these issues. Two blasts will usually outright kill or at least leg a fresh light that attacks you, and with the right modules you can fire those two blasts in about 5 seconds. That means the light is off of you and dead in 5, or running from you and off of you immediately after the first salvo if he's smart. No time for the enemy team to LRM or swarm you, and you usually get your kill. You can even drive off or kill two lights at once if you get your back to something. There is no more effective weapon system for dealing with them. The trade-off is the lousy range of streaks and the fact that anything with more armor than the lowest-tonnage mediums will just shrug off the damage since it spreads all over an enemy mech, and then proceed to mop the floor with your face.

Alistair Winter, on 23 October 2015 - 04:02 PM, said:

Light mechs still the least popular mechs in the game.

Heavy mechs still the most popular.

Working as intended.

^Come on, you know as well as I do those numbers fluctuate every half-second while you hover your cursor there. I can wait for them to read how I want, too:



I saw the light numbers read over 35% once, but that doesn't count. It's the average that does. HOWEVER, you are absolutely right that their numbers have historically been lower than the other weight classes. All I meant by that statement was that they are pretty much as common as the other weight classes at this present moment, and that's only because of the release of the Cheetah for c-bills and the new Crab and Wolfhound all coming out close together.

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 23 October 2015 - 04:51 PM.

[FupDup]

Homeskilit, on 23 October 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

So why did you feel the need to call me out over the fact that I did not address your previous comment about you wanting them removed?

I haven't actually said to specifically remove them, I've said that I really hate them in their current state.

Homeskilit, on 23 October 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

Sounds like what you really want is SRMs to be buffed considerably.

I'd like that as well, but all the SRM fixes in the world wouldn't make Streaks stop being a feast-or-famine "crutch" against lights and low-end mediums.

Homeskilit, on 23 October 2015 - 04:39 PM, said:

While I agree with you that it will functionally make Streaks better, I do not think they will raise the skill floor as much as you think.

The difference is the size of the area that you have to point at.

Right now, since the game doesn't care where you aim at with lock-ons, you can put your mouse almost anywhere within the entire red rectangle surrounding the target mech. You can literally swing your cursor back-and-forth after you have a lock, without affecting your accuracy at all.

I used to use this while dogfighting lights back when IS Streaks were still a thing. I could turn my legs (which pulls your reticule with it) and fling my aim all over the place, but yet still use my Streaks the entire time. But trying to aim normal direct-fire weapons like lasers while doing all of that zigzagging would have resulted in me hitting more dirt than anything.

Having to keep a lock on a single body hitbox, like say a left torso, means I can't flop my cursor all over the place and still have the missiles find their target.

This wouldn't make them "uber hard" to use by any means, but it would certainly require more input than they do now.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Haha, wow 3 pages and arguments breaking out. This was just supposed to be a funny post about trolling Arctic Cheater pilots. Where did it all go so wrong!? WHERE!?!?

[FupDup]

Mcchuggernaut, on 23 October 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

Haha, wow 3 pages and arguments breaking out. This was just supposed to be a funny post about trolling Arctic Cheater pilots. Where did it all go so wrong!? WHERE!?!?

On the first post.

[Homeskilit]

FupDup, on 23 October 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

I haven't actually said to specifically remove them, I've said that I really hate them in their current state.

FupDup, on 23 October 2015 - 03:56 PM, said:

I don't even like the Clans having those launchers right now.

You are right, you did not say specifically that you did not want them removed but in the context of the discussion you sure did imply that. Props on your political skills.

FupDup, on 23 October 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

I'd like that as well, but all the SRM fixes in the world wouldn't make Streaks stop being a feast-or-famine "crutch" against lights and low-end mediums.

No, but all the "skilled" players can use the SRMs and the "unskilled" players can use Streaks and they would both be able to kill lights equally provided they built their mech to do so.

FupDup, on 23 October 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

The difference is the size of the area that you have to point at.

Right now, since the game doesn't care where you aim at with lock-ons, you can put your mouse almost anywhere within the entire red rectangle surrounding the target mech. You can literally swing your cursor back-and-forth after you have a lock, without affecting your accuracy at all.

I used to use this while dogfighting lights back when IS Streaks were still a thing. I could turn my legs (which pulls your reticule with it) and fling my aim all over the place, but yet still use my Streaks the entire time. But trying to aim normal direct-fire weapons like lasers while doing all of that zigzagging would have resulted in me hitting more dirt than anything.

Having to keep a lock on a single body hitbox, like say a left torso, means I can't flop my cursor all over the place and still have the missiles find their target.

This wouldn't make them "uber hard" to use by any means, but it would certainly require more input than they do now.

Acquiring a lock should be hard to accomplish, but once it has been acquired it should be equally as hard to break it. You should be able to maneuver while still keeping a lock on your opponent. A possible change is not allowing the Streaks to fire unless your cursor is on the opponents mech?

Mcchuggernaut, on 23 October 2015 - 05:00 PM, said:

Haha, wow 3 pages and arguments breaking out. This was just supposed to be a funny post about trolling Arctic Cheater pilots. Where did it all go so wrong!? WHERE!?!?

No one is arguing, we are discussing. Arguing involves raised voices and cursing. Dang it Fub you beat me to it.

[Nightshade24]

and then the stormcrow runs out of ammo... and my wolfhounds large pulse laser shall give it no mercy.

[Mcchuggernaut]

FupDup, on 23 October 2015 - 04:48 PM, said:

Having to keep a lock on a single body hitbox, like say a left torso

I'm just thinking about the first thing I would do with a seeking 72 damage streak alpha if you could lock on specific body parts: LEG ALL THE THINGS! While funny, it would probably break and ruin the game for lights if you could do that. I say just make streaks all aim for the CT but give them a spread, so that small things can't be as easily pinpoint cored. That would also make them viable to use against heavies and assaults, since you wouldn't be wasting half your damage spreading it on their arms and legs.

[Homeskilit]

Mcchuggernaut, on 23 October 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

I'm just thinking about the first thing I would do with a seeking 72 damage streak alpha if you could lock on specific body parts: LEG ALL THE THINGS! While funny, it would probably break and ruin the game for lights if you could do that. I say just make streaks all aim for the CT but give them a spread, so that small things can't be as easily pinpoint cored. That would also make them viable to use against heavies and assaults, since you wouldn't be wasting half your damage spreading it on their arms and legs.

Just because they are all targeting a leg does not mean they will all strike the leg. Streaks should have a much larger spread then SRMs because they need room to maneuver in flight.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Homeskilit, on 23 October 2015 - 05:06 PM, said:

No one is arguing, we are discussing. Arguing involves raised voices and cursing. Dang it Fub you beat me to it.

I was definitely cursing on the second page:

Mcchuggernaut, on 23 October 2015 - 11:58 AM, said:

you brain-dead puffed up self-righteous pole stroker.

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 23 October 2015 - 05:20 PM.

[FupDup]

Mcchuggernaut, on 23 October 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

I'm just thinking about the first thing I would do with a seeking 72 damage streak alpha if you could lock on specific body parts: LEG ALL THE THINGS! While funny, it would probably break and ruin the game for lights if you could do that. I say just make streaks all aim for the CT but give them a spread, so that small things can't be as easily pinpoint cored. That would also make them viable to use against heavies and assaults, since you wouldn't be wasting half your damage spreading it on their arms and legs.

I imagine that some kind of spread would have to be retained, because making Streaks be PPFLD like an Autocannon shell would be bonkers. For example, a Clan SSRM6 would basically become a heatseaking AC/12... The way I'm imagining it in my head is that the "center" of the missile formation would be right on the hitbox you want to hit, and then the missiles would make a formation around that center point. Spread would vary be launcher size of course, to offer some incentive to not use the biggest ones all the time (choose biggest alpha or highest precision).

Maybe a nifty mechanic would be for the spread size to be based on how long you have the lock, to add a risk vs reward element to it.

Them being viable against heavies and assaults is one of my exact intentions.

[Mcchuggernaut]

Homeskilit, on 23 October 2015 - 05:18 PM, said:

Streaks should have a much larger spread

That's what I just said, haha. At last, common ground!

Mcchuggernaut, on 23 October 2015 - 05:14 PM, said:

I say just make streaks all aim for the CT but give them a spread

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 23 October 2015 - 05:23 PM.

[FupDup]

Mcchuggernaut, on 23 October 2015 - 05:23 PM, said:

That's what I just said, haha. At last, common ground!

I was here during the CT-homing days, and it was horrible. The Streak 2 was actually more lethal than the Artemis SRM6, and even just 2 SSRM2 back in those days was a threat to even assault mechs. It was redunkulous.

I hate the current mechanic for them, but the CT-homing version was even worse. The nightmares are returning to me...

[Mcchuggernaut]

FupDup, on 23 October 2015 - 05:25 PM, said:

I was here during the CT-homing days, and it was horrible.

I too remember the pain and tears, haha.

Edited by Mcchuggernaut, 23 October 2015 - 05:35 PM.

[Mycrus]

Soy, on 22 October 2015 - 05:59 PM, said:

the jalapeno cheddar ones are even danker

real talk im not kidding i'd slice my mama throat for some rite now

You high?

[TyphonCh]

I haven't played my Summoner in a long while. I may do this, as much as I DESPISE dirty streakboats, the current lights-boating-lasersLOL meta is even worse