101 replies to this topic

[Ace Selin]

Gauss + Laser EBJ > TDR 5SS
The Ebon has better range and runs cooler.

[Widowmaker1981]

Ace Selin, on 27 October 2015 - 01:31 AM, said:

Gauss + Laser EBJ > TDR 5SS
The Ebon has better range and runs cooler.

Well, thats not really quite accurate.

EBJ-A

Alpha: 50
Heat per Alpha: 31
Heat Cap: 80.16
Heat Dissipated per sec: 4.23
%age of cap per alpha: 38.7%.
Cooldown: 4.07s
Shutdown on 5th back to back Alpha (16.5 seconds roughly. 250 dmg)

TDR-5SS
Alpha: 42
Heat per alpha: 23.8
Heat Cap: 76.8
Heat Dissipated per sec: 3.91
%age of cap per alpha: 31%
cooldown: 2.64s
Shutdown on 5th back to back Alpha (10.5 seconds roughly, 210 dmg)
Waiting 4 seconds per alpha to match EBJ Cooldown shuts down on 8th alpha, 336 dmg

It doesnt really run cooler, its a bit swings and roundabouts. - they both shut down on the 5th back to back alpha, but the TDR does its 5 alphas a lot faster if it wants too, and if it holds back to the same rate of fire it takes 8 alphas to shut down.

EBJ advantages: Range (100m optimal). Tiny bit of speed (7kph)

5SS advantages: Durability (much better hitboxes, STD engine, armour quirks), DPS, Beam duration (massively, pretty much half the duration, increasing durability even more due to being able to wub and twist)

[sycocys]

You guys really need to learn to do something other than alpha. No wonder most of you find the T1 matches insanely boring - twitch and hide.

[Widowmaker1981]

sycocys, on 27 October 2015 - 02:41 AM, said:

You guys really need to learn to do something other than alpha. No wonder most of you find the T1 matches insanely boring - twitch and hide.

All of my mechs have 2 weapon groups that contain all of their weapons, and the majority are designed to be able to alpha without too many problems...

How would you prefer we played?

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 27 October 2015 - 03:00 AM.

[Kaspirikay]

It used to be StreakCat. I missed those days

[El Bandito]

sycocys, on 27 October 2015 - 02:41 AM, said:

You guys really need to learn to do something other than alpha. No wonder most of you find the T1 matches insanely boring - twitch and hide.

T1 matches are much more skill based and mistake punishing, hence the players cannot afford to get into situations where they are at a disadvantage. That's the same with any high ranks of multiplayer games, be it LoL, Dota2, TF2, Hearthstone, etc... Although large and diverse meta is something that should always be strived for in MP only games, it is pretty much impossible. People who think highest level of plays are boring, are looking through a different glass.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 October 2015 - 03:27 AM.

[Ascaloth]

ExplicitContent, on 26 October 2015 - 11:18 AM, said:

Probably a thread like this already, but what in your opinion is the most OP build, given the current quirks system and settings.

From my experience (limited), it is hands down the TDR-5SS. Running a STD 300, 7xMPL, with 20 DHS, it can rip off four 42 point alpha strikes in under 9 seconds without shutting down (with current quirks and modules equipped). It has decent enough speed at 82 KPH. Even after the PSR adjustments this is still a dependable 600-800 dmg mech for me.

So, what are your OP builds?

Blackjack 1X can do the same damage with 6ML+2MPL, but running at 116,8km/h.

[Duke Nedo]

Widowmaker1981, on 27 October 2015 - 02:31 AM, said:

EBJ advantages: Range (100m optimal) on MPLs + Gauss. Tiny bit of speed (7kph), High mounted weapons, can poke, Gauss keeps firing when heat limit is reached, higher alpha, DPS

5SS advantages: Durability (much better hitboxes, STD engine, armour quirks), DPS, Beam duration (massively, pretty much half the duration, increasing durability even more due to being able to wub and twist, however offset by lack of range and non-pokability)

Fixed that for you. The 5SS is an excellent mech at what it does thanks to quirks, but to be fair it has more disadvantages than the EBJ. The EBJ is fantastic imo, can do everything exceptionally well except brawling, which it only does fine to OK.

[TWIAFU]

Davegt27, on 26 October 2015 - 04:57 PM, said:

I dont think you can have an OP mech

at least not for long

PGI only knows nerf so even if you come up with some great build it will get nerfed after a short time

That is what happens when people (lemmings) find, ask for, post, the most OP builds in any MMO. The lemmings flock to it like moths to a flame. Then they complain when the eventual nerf happens - and know it is going to happen with the re-balance.

So play meta at own risk.

[Widowmaker1981]

Duke Nedo, on 27 October 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

Fixed that for you. The 5SS is an excellent mech at what it does thanks to quirks, but to be fair it has more disadvantages than the EBJ. The EBJ is fantastic imo, can do everything exceptionally well except brawling, which it only does fine to OK.

How are you suggesting the EBJ is higher DPS than the TDR? In 10 seconds the TDR can lay down 210 dmg, the EBJ is at 150 at that stage.

Yeah the EBJ is a better ridge humper, no question. But then the BNC-3M and BLR and Stalker make the EBJ look crap at ridge humping.

[Duke Nedo]

Widowmaker1981, on 27 October 2015 - 03:53 AM, said:

How are you suggesting the EBJ is higher DPS than the TDR? In 10 seconds the TDR can lay down 210 dmg, the EBJ is at 150 at that stage.

Yeah the EBJ is a better ridge humper, no question. But then the BNC-3M and BLR and Stalker make the EBJ look crap at ridge humping.

Depends on what you mean by DPS. 5SS is best at DPS/10 seconds (burst dps) while EBJ is best at DPS/1 second (alpha "dps") and DPS/60 seconds (sustained dps, at least close not sure if it need longer to break even... could be)... to me at least "DPS" means little.

If I play to win I'd pick an EBJ over a TDR every time, and I could do it equally well chosing between 4-5 different builds... and, I'd pick a HBR over a EBJ.

Edited by Duke Nedo, 27 October 2015 - 04:07 AM.

[Duke Nedo]

Duke Nedo, on 27 October 2015 - 03:46 AM, said:

5SS advantages: Beam duration (massively, pretty much half the duration 70.5% of the duration, increasing durability even more due to being able to wub and twist)

Forgot one more edit. Just pointing out that your comparison appeared somewhat biased to me.

Edited by Duke Nedo, 27 October 2015 - 04:14 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Duke Nedo, on 27 October 2015 - 04:06 AM, said:

Depends on what you mean by DPS. 5SS is best at DPS/10 seconds (burst dps) while EBJ is best at DPS/1 second (alpha "dps") and DPS/60 seconds (sustained dps, at least close not sure if it need longer to break even... could be)... to me at least "DPS" means little.

If I play to win I'd pick an EBJ over a TDR every time, and I could do it equally well chosing between 4-5 different builds... and, I'd pick a HBR over a EBJ.

Well, it was the G+L EBJ people were talking about. I also prefer the HBR to the EBJ, because ECM. and better hitboxes, but mainly ECM.

I prefer this to every other mech in the game though.

Duke Nedo, on 27 October 2015 - 04:12 AM, said:

Forgot one more edit. Just pointing out that your comparison appeared somewhat biased to me.

Erm.. thats wrong.

(0.6 / 1.15) x 100 = 52.17%

Your value is for MPL, which changes the build drastically (notably, it loses 5 DHS). People use ERML.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 27 October 2015 - 04:29 AM.

[Duke Nedo]

Widowmaker1981, on 27 October 2015 - 04:19 AM, said:

Erm.. thats wrong.

(0.6 / 1.15) x 100 = 52.17%

Your value is for MPL, which changes the build drastically (notably, it loses 5 DHS). People use ERML.

Oh, lol, didn't see that. I much prefer MPLs over ERMLs and subconsciously assumed you were comparing cMPL to MPL.

[Widowmaker1981]

Duke Nedo, on 27 October 2015 - 04:29 AM, said:

Oh, lol, didn't see that. I much prefer MPLs over ERMLs and subconsciously assumed you were comparing cMPL to MPL.

Well, comparing this build instead, now it has 5 more alpha, but DEFINITELY doesnt run as cool as the 5SS, will now overheat on the 3rd alpha.

[DrxAbstract]

JR7-F Original Slim Shady
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...44393da815da2e6

FS9-S Mobility
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...b22c1ddecf42140

FS9-A Mobility
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c5f5a21befe128b

TDR-5SS Original
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...8ffe91a686f0fe6

TDR-5SS Mobility
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9d7fbfa801cd19e

TBR-C Original
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...21d1b48af78192c

TBR-Prime(I) variant for C-Bills
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c9d2a8bd2994796

KGC-000 Unrequited Love (CW build)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...33d54f23089f4db

KGC-000 Puglandia Deluxe
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9e84c628b07f5ef

[Duke Nedo]

Widowmaker1981, on 27 October 2015 - 04:44 AM, said:

Well, comparing this build instead, now it has 5 more alpha, but DEFINITELY doesnt run as cool as the 5SS, will now overheat on the 3rd alpha.

Yeah, that's close to how I run my G+L EBJ: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9d1c1cd40d7b32c, but I put the gauss in the arm that is almost as high mounted and use the right side for shielding.

Surprisingly, the most efficient EBJ build for me was this guy: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...673ce1affb11ba7, it was wrecking face with its 65 point double tap alpha. 4.64 k/d ratio and many funny moments.

[Alistair Winter]

I don't think too many people know what OP means in this context. OP means overpowered. The "most OP" build is the build that is most powerful. In other words, if you put two pilots of roughly equal skill in two different mechs, the guy in the "most OP build" will normally win.

If your answer is the gauss+laser or pure laservomit TBR, EBJ and/or Stormcrow, you are correct. The pulse boating Thunderbolt and Banshee are also good answers. The Dire Wolf is a good answer if you mean the group queue. In the pug queue, the Dire Wolf is at the mercy of the Gods of Mount Puglympus. It's a feast or famine mech.

If your answer was the ACH or Firestarter, you either misunderstood the question or don't know how this game works. They are arguably the two best light mechs in the game, by a good margin, yes. But they are not consistently the highest scoring mechs on the battlefield and their score is often 'artificially' enhanced by their ability to pick off weak targets (i.e. dumb opponents who got isolated). If you put a laservomit TBR up against a ACH or Firestarter, the light mech will be legged faster than you can say 'coolshot'.

The SPL ACH is just very powerful in one particular setting, just like many dual gauss builds or UAC5-boating builds. But its lack of versatility and its inability to deal with the actual OP builds, like the laservomit Timber, disqualify it from being a candidate.

People have grown so accustomed to light mechs being the least effective weight class in MWO that they lose their minds when new light mechs are actually able to compete with heavy mechs.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 27 October 2015 - 05:14 AM.

[ExplicitContent]

Alistair Winter, on 27 October 2015 - 04:59 AM, said:

I don't think too many people know what OP means in this context. OP means overpowered. The "most OP" build is the build that is most powerful. In other words, if you put two pilots of roughly equal skill in two different mechs, the guy in the "most OP build" will normally win.

If your answer is the gauss+laser or pure laservomit TBR, EBJ and/or Stormcrow, you are correct. The pulse boating Thunderbolt and Banshee are also good answers. The Dire Wolf is a good answer if you mean the group queue. In the pug queue, the Dire Wolf is at the mercy of the Gods of Mount Puglympus. It's a feast or famine mech.

If your answer was the ACH or Firestarter, you either misunderstood the question or don't know how this game works. They are arguably the two best mechs in the game, by a good margin, yes. But they are not consistently the highest scoring mechs on the battlefield and their score is often 'artificially' enhanced by their ability to pick off weak targets (i.e. dumb opponents who got isolated). If you put a laservomit TBR up against a ACH or Firestarter, the light mech will be legged faster than you can say 'coolshot'.

The SPL ACH is just very powerful in one particular setting, just like many dual gauss builds or UAC5-boating builds. But its lack of versatility and its inability to deal with the actual OP builds, like the laservomit Timber, disqualify it from being a candidate.

People have grown so accustomed to light mechs being the least effective weight class in MWO that they lose their minds when new light mechs are actually able to compete with heavy mechs.

Yeah, that is most definitely what i intended the use of OP to be, and I concur, having read many of the responses, that many do not use OP as a recognition of a mech being overpowered. 100% concur with your DWF assessment. Its feast or famine with that guy and its so slow, you can get in trouble easily.

I have yet to build any combination, and I have tried many of the mechs suggested, that out perform the TDR-5SS. That being said and my own recognition of it being OP, should I now desire it to be nerfed? The answer is no. I mostly run clan tech and that is one of the few IS mechs that I have to be really careful around.

[Widowmaker1981]

Alistair Winter, on 27 October 2015 - 04:59 AM, said:

People have grown so accustomed to light mechs being the least effective weight class in MWO that they lose their minds when new light mechs are actually able to compete with heavy mechs.

With tonnage limits being a thing now, and therefore heavier mechs having more opportunity cost, do you think its right that a light SHOULD compete with a heavy? That only makes sense in the solo queue now.