59 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

hmm another nerftard

[William Mountbank]

627, on 27 October 2015 - 01:55 PM, said:

By the way, with 8JJs and a top engine, weaponry isn't really that great, even for cicada standards.

To be fair, the 12 JJ Spider 5V can't jump so high because it is bogged down by the sheer weight of its weaponry.

[DerMaulwurf]

I don't think that nerfing the Cicada is warranted, but the situation highlights something important: The whole JJ system is a mess.

The JJs on my Highlanders are much worse than those on my lighter mechs, although they weigh 4 times as much. Yet my Panther's JJs aren't good either, although they are on a sub-standard chassis. The whole thing just appears to be pretty much random.

If you're worried about the return of pop-tarting just impede aim during the entire jump. I love my Shadow Cats, but I would gladly sacrifice the pop-tarting to make JJs the mobility tools they should be.

[KuroNyra]

<< I wanted to jump that cliff and get on the other side to continu my ascencion of the moutain.
- What were you using?
- Cicada-3L.
- And?
- Ho, I sur did jumped over the cliff... But I also reached the top of the moutain...
- ...
- ...
- *Both* Another beer please! >>

Edited by KuroNyra, 28 October 2015 - 02:02 AM.

[Herr Vorragend]

What silly topic. The Cicada is pretty okay. The JJs are what make this mech. And it´s feeling good.
Why don´t you scream for buffing JJs on other mechs?

But don´t forget: Med JJs are quite nice and if you use them on the lighter medium mechs (shadowcat, cicada) they will do what their name tells you. Making you jump.

Your problem, OP, is a different one. Think about that, before writing.

[KuroNyra]

Or you know. He could just remove one or two jumpjet in order to jump lower.

[KHETTI]

Wow OP of all the things to complain about! i think PGI can entirely ignore you from this point forward.

[MeiSooHaityu]

It makes me wonder if some players just stat surf and if they see a statistic a bit out of line, call for a nerf or buff solely because of that and not because of how the mech or weapon actually plays in the game.

[Prof RJ Gumby]

JC Daxion, on 27 October 2015 - 03:31 PM, said:

Facts.
35 ton mech, 4 raven 37m
35 ton arctic cheeta 6 52,
35 ton firestarter 6 44m
40 ton cicada, 6 79m
45 ton black jack, 4 = 46
50 ton crab, 5= 52
50 ton nova 5= 52
55 ton griffin, 5= 47
60 ton quickdraw, 5 = 43
65 ton catapult 4= 32
70 ton cataphract 4=30
70 ton summoner, 5=37
80 ton victor 4=23.9
90 ton highlander, 4=25
95 ton executioner, 4=24

Gee i wonder which ones stands out as totally odd ball from the entire Jump Jet mechanic....

AHEM!

Some more facts
25t Myst Lynx 6 = 62,44m
45t Vindicator 6 = 70,31m
45t Shadow Cat 6 = 70,31

Funny you forgot about other 3 best jumpers in the game in that list of yours. Especially that despite their jumping capabilities, they're all considered weak and a nerf to JJs would make them even weaker...

Cicada is the best, but it's hardly oddball. 78m advantage over mechs 5 tons bigger? Hardly outstanding. Plus, with max JJs and proper engine all you can pack into a Cicada is 4mpls, with a whopping 24 points of alpha at 242meters (with module on).

And finally, better jump jets for a "bottom of the weight class" mech is a mechanic of adding advantage for mechs that are otherwise disadvantaged in almost all other aspects by the fact they're bottom of their weight class. Like it or not, it makes sense in terms of balance. At least for lights and meds.

Edited by Prof RJ Gumby, 28 October 2015 - 02:53 AM.

[4rcs1ne]

JC Daxion, on 27 October 2015 - 01:50 PM, said:

Yup i said it.. And this coming from a person, that pretty much never cries NERF! You know like the boy that cried wolf, do it all the time, and no one listens.. But this time, i think i must say something because i haven't seen a single person mention it anywhere.



the 3L, needs a JJ nerf. Cicada 3L with 8 JJ's should have a max JJ height of around, 70m

A spider with 12 JJ's and 30 tons, jumps 1 meter lower, than a 40 ton mech with 8 jj's, both use .5 weight JJ's

If i had to guess someone screwed up the math, and put a decimal in the wrong place, But under the rules of this game, and system, there is zero reason why this should be correct.

8JJ's in a spider is 69.38.. so lets round it off to 70m.. I don't have an issue with a cicada using the light move scale when it comes to this mech, after all, the cicada is a fat light after all.. But to get an extra 35M bonus on a 10 ton heavier mech, makes ZERO sense..

Even at 6 jump jets, the mech jumps higher than a spider with 8, but almost 6 meters, which is a 1 ton savings on a 10 ton heavier mech already.

a 10 ton heavier mech, that can run the same speed, and carry more weapons and armor and on top of it jumps higher.. is just wrong on many levels, and honestly something i don't think that was meant to be.


Check the numbers, and find out were ya went wrong with this new mech, because someone screwed up some place. FYI, i've been playing my 3L, and leveling it, fun mech, but it is over powered in this one aspect.




EDIT for chart.. So please explain how this makes sense? This is not a thread about if JJ's should change.. It is a thread about getting this one mech in line with EVERY other JJ mech in the game..



Facts.

35 ton mech, 4 raven 37m

35 ton arctic cheeta 6 52,

35 ton firestarter 6 44m

40 ton cicada, 6 79m

45 ton black jack, 4 = 46

50 ton crab, 5= 52

50 ton nova 5= 52

55 ton griffin, 5= 47

60 ton quickdraw, 5 = 43

65 ton catapult 4= 32

70 ton cataphract 4=30

70 ton summoner, 5=37

80 ton victor 4=23.9

90 ton highlander, 4=25

95 ton executioner, 4=24

If I could dislike this post I would. The Cicada is vulnerable enough as it is, and to nerf it is just unthinkable.

[FupDup]

MeiSooHaityu, on 28 October 2015 - 02:29 AM, said:

It makes me wonder if some players just stat surf and if they see a statistic a bit out of line, call for a nerf or buff solely because of that and not because of how the mech or weapon actually plays in the game.

That sounds like the Paul approach...

[Mazzyplz]

lol nerf a cicada; the one with the worst hardpoints of any cicada;

literally the only thing you can do with this cicada is be a poptart counterpart to the shadowcat.

JJ + 2LPL and maybe a medlas or two





cicada LPL poptart:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...42f3c3f88a20b9d

shadowcat LPL poptart: (NOTE how shadowcat jumps more than cda in this comparison and has ecm)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...174f374e26bf64c


mostly the same dmg, dps... heat.




cicada 3ERLL ECM: (no jumpjets at all.)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...5e62ee7e1cbecb7

shadowcat 3ERLL ecm: (this shadowcat has jumpjets!)
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...4ab0d92279b566d


mostly the same heat eff. but clan shadowcat can sustain more dps and has longer range..


and if you want to shoot 2xerppc on cicada you have to pick 3M for ecm or 3F for jj - scat can do both

it never has to pick between ecm and JJ, it has longer range on all weapons by class, and has clan XL engine...







so how is the cda overpowered in any way shape or form? - it's actually not up to par with scat.

what's the problem? it seems like the shadowcat can pretty much jump the same height unless you go for all jumpjets which would be counterproductive

Edited by Mazzyplz, 28 October 2015 - 12:15 PM.

[CygnusX7]

Oh look.. It's another I got wrecked by XXXX so nerf it thread.
What needs to be nerfed is your need to cry nerf about insignificant mechs.

[Mazzyplz]

CygnusX7, on 28 October 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

Oh look.. It's another I got wrecked by XXXX so nerf it thread.
What needs to be nerfed is your need to cry nerf about insignificant mechs.

he thought this thread would have a different effect than just embarrassing himself

Edited by Mazzyplz, 28 October 2015 - 12:17 PM.

[JC Daxion]

CygnusX7, on 28 October 2015 - 10:32 AM, said:

Oh look.. It's another I got wrecked by XXXX so nerf it thread.
What needs to be nerfed is your need to cry nerf about insignificant mechs.

So far from the truth you have zero clue.. Before posting such stuff.. why not click on history.. and look at my posts... and you will see this is one of the first balance posts i have made in a very long time.... Only been watching the game since it was suggested it would happen in 2012... and started in 2013... back in the 8x8 days,,, long before clanners...

I made the name nerf to get attention.. wish i didnt now.. forgot how people react... SMH

Mazzyplz, on 28 October 2015 - 12:16 PM, said:

he thought this thread would have a different effect than just embarrassing himself

Yet again.. a person that did not read the first post or want to actually have a discussion.... next time.,.. why not add to the conversation... verse jumping to conclusions...









(i have not read anything sense i posted last.... because man.. why are people so agaist talking about re-balance????? maybe this thread will make JJ's better for some mechs...... Especially larger.. as i notices that the heavies are all screwed up sense the JJ nerf.. Why is a victor, with 4 JJ's a smaller jump than a highlander?

Should assaults get a bit of a buff.. Heck yea! should they jump 70m"??? No... So please.. instead of posting stupid pic's... post some good thoughts..

Look people... I was not suggesting a giant nerf.. I was just asking.. and wondering about balance.... When i posted the thread i was thinking about perhaps a 10% nerf... but heck ya... why not a light buff??????? But then again, i don't play fire starters, or any of the clan lights, so i don't know how a general buff would be with them.. which is why i was suggesting a small JJ nerf on a cicada. A mech that i love, and play all the time in fact.. (well the 3C, 3M, and 3A.... still wanna buy that kick arse 3B) But the point is.. i play both spiders, and cicadas.. often.. It's not like im a clanner, timber, or stormcrow pilot that got schooled once or twice..

So here are more stats.....


(who ever thought a cicada only had a 10 alpha... guess what... ya never played a cicada!)

the cicada 3L... http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d57bdebff241555


Basically, the same mech, minus the huge jump.. Jenners...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dbd7aae727bff4c


Now, lets compare to the spider... a mech that should be far more mobile, and more jumping.... yet, it isnt.. and has half the fire power..

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c45d8a4c31d4dec



Don't wanna nerf the mediums mech jumps... OK. i get that... So why not a 50% boost in lights jump? this would make the 104 spider, hump up to just a bit over 150..

Much more mobile, yet hardly a killer mech....

Edited by JC Daxion, 28 October 2015 - 08:18 PM.

[Mazzyplz]

JC Daxion, on 28 October 2015 - 08:07 PM, said:

(who ever thought a cicada only had a 10 alpha... guess what... ya never played a cicada!)

the cicada 3L... http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d57bdebff241555


Basically, the same mech, minus the huge jump.. Jenners...

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...dbd7aae727bff4c


Now, lets compare to the spider... a mech that should be far more mobile, and more jumping.... yet, it isnt.. and has half the fire power..

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...c45d8a4c31d4dec

ok, here's a few facts for you:

the jenner has been one of the best lights since always;
the cicada in contrast has always been seen by players as a bad mech.

as for the spider; you should really blame paul inouye's decision of making the bad hitreg on spider and abusing spacebar be the balancing factor, instead of giving it some armor quirks or more flight or whatever. the bottom line is so long as the spider can laugh off shots that shoulda killed it; maybe a buff is not in order yet

cicada and shadowcat aren't even looked favorably right now. as you make this post

why not let it jump more? i think it makes sense that they would need better positioning; the bigger size and higher tonnage has to count for something no? or is it just being a bigger target and moving slower

[Karl Marlow]

I dunno that I would classify the cicada as bad just average. Giving it jump jets just gives it additional utility. Lets face it. If instead of giving us a jumping cicada they gave us an assasin would these complaints still be heard? It's 40 tons and jumps. Its not a big deal.

[CygnusX7]

JC Daxion, on 28 October 2015 - 08:07 PM, said:

So far from the truth you have zero clue.. Before posting such stuff.. why not click on history.. and look at my posts... and you will see this is one of the first balance posts i have made in a very long time.... Only been watching the game since it was suggested it would happen in 2012... and started in 2013... back in the 8x8 days,,, long before clanners...

Sensitive.
Whether you did it once or 100 times your nerf cries will echo on forever.
Just blame yourself next time and move on to the next match.

[Bobzilla]

Same tons/slots better effect on a different mech for no reason what so ever.

You've been around long enough you should realize how messed up this game is.

[wanderer]

Jump jets function in a plane of Paulity that beggars sense and consistency. That being said, the -3L is one of the few that gets it decent. Nerfing it is beyond silly, more 'Mechs should be mobile if they put the investment into jump jets. It's what they're for.