124 replies to this topic

[Hades Trooper]

So Boreal Vault.

IS cheats using the top of the dropship area to camp and fire over quirked ER large lasers from there cheat spot to the gates.

How can PGI make out of bounds near the gate as it was considered game breaking and allow this?

It wasn't just lights but Battlemaster's and Stalkers able to climb the hill between the Omega and the defender deploy zone.

This was a unit that pretty piss poor also. the previous match they had lost to a 12 random people that i took command of after the 1st wave went horrible and they sucked that badly we won vs there 12 man.

This time the position is so broken there where able to fire without reproach and won 12-48 with the same players that had been wiped out by 12 random the previous match on the map with the blue moon, forget it's name.

Seriously how has this not been brought up by now as they where happy to camp and not even go past the omega for all 4 waves the position is so stupidly powerful.

As far as i'm concerned playing in such a manner is cheating and map abuse and once again PGI lack of caring for CW means nothing has been changed.

You know who i'm talking about, you know your cheats, i use to have some respect for the unit but all that was vaporised when i saw how willingly they abused the map to get a win in CW.

Though i've come to expect that from Davion units.

Edit note : BTW i'm Australian and I use words more strongly than i find american counter parts do, so please look at the matter at hand, the position on the ridge is something PGI should have made out of bounds as like the position between the gates was made. People need to consider the point being made instead of focusing on the words use to express the point.

Edited by Hades Trooper, 05 November 2015 - 06:29 PM.

[Helsbane]

So, what Dav unit was it?

[White Bear 84]

Hades Trooper, on 27 October 2015 - 08:37 PM, said:

So Boreal Vault.

IS cheats using the top of the dropship area to camp and fire over quirked ER large lasers from there cheat spot to the gates.

Ok, so possibly good point about ridge camping and potentially running a map exploit...

...but then how on earth did you lose this way? Did your team just stand in the open taking fire from this point? Last time I checked boreal there was ample gulleys and cover from the ridge & once the range gap is closed....

Helsbane, on 27 October 2015 - 08:58 PM, said:

So, what Dav unit was it?

That would technically be classified as naming and shaming which is against the CoC..

I think the more important point is the potential use of map exploits..

Edited by White Bear 84, 27 October 2015 - 09:06 PM.

[Tuis Ryche]

Just here to refuel on your tears. Nevermind that your own gauss and ERLL's can hit them, too, and how much did you whine about the ridiculous sightlines in Boreal when Clans were doing the same damn thing to every attacking force before the drop zone change?

And it's not a map exploit if the area being used is easily accessed via walking and the area being used is marked in-bounds.

[Kinski Orlawisch]

Where are the cheats? Using 5ss / BM with 911m ER LL range is no cheat. It is a tactic. Think about how to counter it.
We also use longrange on Boreal vault. For shure...You never won against a full 12 men -BO- team. Yes we have 36 Thunderbolts in our dropdeck.
There are no cheats. Just quircks. 3 days left on Kurita contract. Have a nice day.

[Hades Trooper]

Abusing the map is cheating, it's simple, we didn't bring meta mechs, no one was running stupid guass and ppc.

to claim it's a tactical advanatge is obviously no understanding of balance.

Once u get bored for 7 mins sitting in a gully as they refuse to come out of there camp as i was with 11 random people and a few of them got chewed up they refused even at 8-36 to get off that abuse of the map.

If they made the spot between the gates out of bounds why haven't they done so on this map. it's out right abuse and i had more respect for my old unit that that but then it's what i expect from Davion units

[Rattazustra]

Tuis Ryche, on 27 October 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

And it's not a map exploit if the area being used is easily accessed via walking and the area being used is marked in-bounds.

An exploit is by definition the abuse of something that nobody thought could be abused like that.

I think we can all agree that the protected drop zones were never meant to be elevated, armoured fire bases for overquirked, long range killzone sniper assault mechs, exclusively to be useable by one faction. So yes, of course it is an exploit.

[Karl Marlow]

Go around?

[Kinski Orlawisch]

???
Clans use it on Boreal as IS units. There are plenty units using longrange snipers there.

What is the point?

Ohh I never used boating Streaks..its a cheat!!!! Bann them? Calm down..Get a 12 men team...and brawl them down!
Use Airstrikes, Arti ...ERLL with TAC....or 12 Arctic Cheatas....

[Tuis Ryche]

OK, by definition an exploit is to "make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource)", like say, a legally accessible, elevated position using long-range weapons. Yes, they exploited what was there and what has been there for months.

However, it's not an area that is marked "out-of-bounds", accessible by racing across OOB areas, nor inaccessible to other mechs. It's also not even unique in CW maps. JJ mechs can attain elevated positions in that red hell Vitric Forge when defending. Any mech can use similar elevated positions in Emerald Taiga when defending. Hellebore Springs as well.

"I think we can all agree that the protected drop zones were never meant to be X"

No, we can't. Cite your source for this conclusion on developer intent, please. Because if, by exploit, you mean "a software tool designed to take advantage of a flaw in a computer system" then you need to demonstrate that what *is* there was not meant, intended, or designed to be there.

Edited by Tuis Ryche, 27 October 2015 - 10:07 PM.

[xX PUG Xx]

Clan pilots complaining about being outranged LOL, I don't remember many Omni' pilots saying "You know what? Perhaps it's a bit unfair for me to boat 5 ER LL with the biggest TC I can squeeze in here. That constant laser vomit must be really annoying".

It's been said before, tactics can beat technological advantage, you already know that Hades and calling players cheats because you've not configured at least one 'Mech to suit the most common map in CW is just silly. Anyone that plays CW with the slightest hint of forethought knows there will be stage of long range snipe/trade, if your build doesn't suit it then you adjust your tactics to compensate. Complaining that the other team have planned ahead is, well, silly...

[Aresye]

xX PUG Xx, on 27 October 2015 - 10:21 PM, said:

Clan pilots complaining about being outranged LOL, I don't remember many Omni' pilots saying "You know what? Perhaps it's a bit unfair for me to boat 5 ER LL with the biggest TC I can squeeze in here. That constant laser vomit must be really annoying".

It's been said before, tactics can beat technological advantage, you already know that Hades and calling players cheats because you've not configured at least one 'Mech to suit the most common map in CW is just silly. Anyone that plays CW with the slightest hint of forethought knows there will be stage of long range snipe/trade, if your build doesn't suit it then you adjust your tactics to compensate. Complaining that the other team have planned ahead is, well, silly...

With the current quirk setup the RVN-4X, BLS-1S, and TDR-5SS all outrange the CERLL even with the largest TC and range modules equipped. Granted, we're talking "scratching" ranges here, but coupled with the laser duration quirks a lot of these mechs have on top of an already shorter ERLL beam duration, the IS mechs will frequently win the trades at the long range battle. 2-3 damage while the enemy does 0 is still a winning trade.

Is it cheating though? Hardly. Yeah it's intimidating to take damage from so far away, but most players don't realize how small the damage they're taking really is. They hesitate though, and take more and more hits, and eventually they start taking more serious damage. Then they totally freak out and hunker down going, "This is so unfair!"

All of which could have been avoided if they just simply ignored the grazing shots, opened the gates, and closed range with the snipers where their Clan weapons do more damage.

[Leone]

Personally I just load up a Daishi with medium pulse lasers, ac 10s, and Srms an brawl em to death. Now if they were attacking and hiding in their open drop zone, then I just hafta wait for em to come to the connector cuz that's actually real open. If you wanna brawl, be prepared to wait a while on Boreal.

If you want to maintain constant engagement you'll hafta accept the map favours longer range.

~Leone.

[Hades Trooper]

xX PUG Xx, on 27 October 2015 - 10:21 PM, said:

Clan pilots complaining about being outranged LOL, I don't remember many Omni' pilots saying "You know what? Perhaps it's a bit unfair for me to boat 5 ER LL with the biggest TC I can squeeze in here. That constant laser vomit must be really annoying".

It's been said before, tactics can beat technological advantage, you already know that Hades and calling players cheats because you've not configured at least one 'Mech to suit the most common map in CW is just silly. Anyone that plays CW with the slightest hint of forethought knows there will be stage of long range snipe/trade, if your build doesn't suit it then you adjust your tactics to compensate. Complaining that the other team have planned ahead is, well, silly...

I understand there is a long range snipe/trade period but surely if out of bounds was made on the placement between the gates as it was consdiered unfair then the placement of that spot should be also.

I haven't played Cw in a long time and if this is the state of affairs now people abuse stop map creation as PGI doesn't give it much thought then yet another reason to keep to group and pugging ques.

That spot in plain broken.

[Appogee]

Cheating? Not even close.

Unsportsmanlike? Maybe at a stretch. However, expecting your opponent to forego favourable map positions and technological advantages, to give you a chance to beat them, is impractically idealistic.

Clans have been using their general long range advantage to win CW matches for as long as I can remember. I don't think I've ever dropped in an IS team who cared enough to bring all of those few Mechs that can outrange Clan weapons.

So, don't blame your enemy for playing the map and the technology provided. Blame the developers for not balancing the battle conditions a little better, or blame yourself for not countering their strategy.

I would have thought strikes on that hill, as you make your way up the left or right gulleys, might have got you into a closer range where the slow DPS of ERL weapons becomes a disadvantage for them.

Edited by Appogee, 27 October 2015 - 11:08 PM.

[Hades Trooper]

Surely PGI can take 5 mins and make those spots on ALL CW maps out of bounds as by no way was that the intention of how that where made, thus if you not playing as intended and using it for an advanatge and on this map where your channelled down 2 paths where they can see both approachs coming then it's broken and should be fixed.

Either IS or clans using that placement are cheating in my eyes.

learn to play the game with the spirit it's intended rather than exploiting everything

[Nyuuu]

It is currently and sadly a valid strategy, though pretty much the most skill-less and cowardly thing you can do in a 12 man against pugs.

Best counter is to get as many teammates as you can to just wait outside the gate leaving the camping guys on the ridge bored to tears and robbed of any income.
Sure you wont get anything either (not like you would have dying 600m out to 48 ERLL) but after about 20 minutes of doing 300 damage that 12 man should, if any brain cells are left, rethink their choices and head out to you to make their half hour game even worth the consumables spent.

If they are too cowardly to at least give the uncoordinated skittles any chance of scoring damage they deserve no better.

[Adamski]

Aresye Kerensky, on 27 October 2015 - 10:45 PM, said:

With the current quirk setup the RVN-4X, BLS-1S, and TDR-5SS all outrange the CERLL even with the largest TC and range modules equipped. Granted, we're talking "scratching" ranges here, but coupled with the laser duration quirks a lot of these mechs have on top of an already shorter ERLL beam duration, the IS mechs will frequently win the trades at the long range battle. 2-3 damage while the enemy does 0 is still a winning trade.

Is it cheating though? Hardly. Yeah it's intimidating to take damage from so far away, but most players don't realize how small the damage they're taking really is. They hesitate though, and take more and more hits, and eventually they start taking more serious damage. Then they totally freak out and hunker down going, "This is so unfair!"

All of which could have been avoided if they just simply ignored the grazing shots, opened the gates, and closed range with the snipers where their Clan weapons do more damage.

Considering Clan mechs almost universally run faster than IS mechs, use your mech speed to close that marginal range gap and get into your own preferred fighting range.

Specifically, 25% quirk to ER-LL has 15% more range than C-ER-LL.
Clan heavies run at least 20% faster than the average brawler IS mech (the difference in speed between the same weight STD & XL engine), and Sniper mechs run even slower than that.

Edited by Adamski, 28 October 2015 - 12:12 AM.

[Harlock Fredrick]

Why do people play a game if they are going to exploit to win? If you want to enjoy a game for what its worth why exploit it. Shows you lack skills and suck at play games and you should look into playing hello kitty because that's the only skill game you'll ever be good at playing.

Edited by Brazzez, 28 October 2015 - 12:13 AM.

[wanderer]

Hades Trooper, on 27 October 2015 - 09:30 PM, said:

Abusing the map is cheating, it's simple, we didn't bring meta mechs, no one was running stupid guass and ppc.

to claim it's a tactical advanatge is obviously no understanding of balance.

Bring the meta or die to the meta. You can hit them, they can hit you, they maximized their advantages and you failed to bring yours.

That, incidentally is horrible tactics on your part. As noted above, get the gates open, take a bit of damage doing so, burn enemy new orifices, win. Instead, you bogged down and burned out by inches. Then, you cry "CHEATER!". No. The blame can be found by looking in a mirror.


[redacted]

Edited by Catalina Steiner, 01 November 2015 - 05:14 AM.