124 replies to this topic

[MaxFool]

Rattazustra, on 27 October 2015 - 09:42 PM, said:

An exploit is by definition the abuse of something that nobody thought could be abused like that.

I think we can all agree that the protected drop zones were never meant to be elevated, armoured fire bases for overquirked, long range killzone sniper assault mechs, exclusively to be useable by one faction. So yes, of course it is an exploit.

It was the most frigging obvious thing that would follow the spawn change, and it was called out instantly. Just because you didn't think it could be abused like that does not mean others didn't. The other thing about it is that's it's actually a bad tactic used mostly by bad players, and it's very easy to counter.

It's even less good when just part of the team does it. When I see people on my team doing it I'm usually telling that to stop being useless and get closer to where the rest of the team is fighting, because usually the best fighting ground for defending team is far away from the spawn walls, and if rest of the team takes fight to the best ground those guys on the wall are not in a good position to shoot at enemy. On top of not doing good damage on enemy they are also not sharing any armor, which is much worse than most people realize.

[Kin3ticX]

Having a hard time understanding what the cheating is......

Is he complaining about someone using coordinated ERLL spam on Boreal and calling it cheating?

[Rushin Roulette]

Hades Trooper, on 27 October 2015 - 08:37 PM, said:

So Boreal Vault.

IS cheats using the top of the dropship area to camp and fire over quirked ER large lasers from there cheat spot to the gates.

Ummm... just to burst your bubble. Ive seen Clan units place players at the top of the mountain as well.... so this so called "cheat" is not IS only and even "honourable" clan "players" (Help... im running out of "" to place in one post) us it.... Thus it is not an Exploit, cheat or unfair one sided thing.... Just rush them. stay close to the foot of the mountain and they wont even be able to shoot you becasue they cant see you any more.

Problem solved.... NEXT!

[FlipOver]

Hades, I can sum up your OP:

Cheaters! The enemy uses strategy and I'm not able to use strategy to counter!

[Dawnstealer]

That's a really loose definition of cheating. So are Clan mechs cheating when they kill me with laservomit? Just curious.

Edited by Dawnstealer, 05 February 2016 - 10:41 AM.

[Ace Selin]

Any use of tactics from now shall be deemed an exploit and cheating: according to the OP.

[Drunk Canuck]

It isn't cheating because that terrain is part of the map now. [redacted]

Edited by Coryphee, 20 November 2015 - 11:14 AM.
Unconstructive

[McHoshi]

good laughs on this topic for sure

[Hydrocarbon]

Tuis Ryche, on 27 October 2015 - 09:07 PM, said:

Just here to refuel on your tears. Nevermind that your own gauss and ERLL's can hit them, too

I'm guessing you A.) never played clan, B.) enjoy spamming IS-ERLL, C.) lie to yourself daily that over-quirked IS mechs are still inferior. Do you realize the mechs mentioned have insane laser quirks, both range & duration? That gauss at that range can be easily avoided? Lets go over some stats:

************************************************************************************
BLR-1S & TDR-5SS:
ERLL optimal of 843m
beam duration <1.1 sec (>8.25 dmg/sec)
Heat efficiency = 1.25 dmg/heat
************************************************************************************
Clamzz:
ERLL optimal of 740m
beam duration 1.5 sec (7.33 dmg/sec)
Heat efficiency = 1.1 dmg/heat
************************************************************************************

Not to mention virtually zero clan "builds" equip 3+ ERLL's, while the BLR & TDR typically boat 3-4 ERLL's. That's 22 alpha vs 27-36 alpha. BIG DIFFERENCE. No 12-man Clan team I've ever played with has EVER had more than 2 mechs with 3+ ERLL, and the PUG's that bring them rarely pull more than 500 dmg.



Just FYI, I've played a LOT of matches on both IS & Clan sides. Boreal is my most hated now because of the ERLL crap - both facing IS *and* playing IS. You get campers that don't help spread among the team when playing with them & campers that can out-range you when playing against them. I'm okay with lots of imbalance, but this really is borderline abuse.

Marc von der Heide, on 27 October 2015 - 09:55 PM, said:

Ohh I never used boating Streaks..its a cheat!!!! Bann them?

In fact there's a gentleman's agreement on one of the MWO Tourney series, NBT, where clanners generally have agree'd NOT to use streaks. The difference is that ERLL can't be defeated with ECM or poking - as stated, IS-ERLL is more deadly than any possible countermeasure. THAT is the problem, no *effective* way to counter it.

Edited by Hydrocarbon, 28 October 2015 - 09:08 AM.

[Helsbane]

So, the wall in front of the drop zone on Emerald isn't a problem? I've lost count of the number of times when Clans use that hilltop to their advantage, so is it still 'cheating' when they do it? Honestly, I think Hades is just angry he got beat by intelligent use of map features. We wouldn't be having this wonderful debate if his team had used it to defend against a counter attack and wrecked that same group.

[sycocys]

Ah, that was a good laugh. I'm sure the honorable clan teams would never exploit something like long range superiority, or having ecm on 8+ of 12 mechs per cycle.

[Surn]

You whining clanners fail to mention that recent clan mechs are excellent brawlers. This takes away one of the key IS advantages, leaving only the 100m erll range engagement window advantage.

Further, you get the intentionally broken artic cheater to eliminate the light mech speed/rush advantage. Now you complain about this!? Maybe you are just terribad.

Seriously, stop whining about every small advantage the IS has. Clan mechs are far superior and you know it.

"Oh we shut down", yes after you blast a few massive alpha strikes with excellent range. Learn to alpha and get cover, that is why IS mechs traditionally can not "poke" vs clan mechs.

Clan mechs are faster as a group, which means the entire 12man team is more mobile. Clan mechs have much more ecm to hide their movements. Clan XL engines make you impervious to the one shot, side torso kill. These factors alone make a clan team able to engage, break off and reengage with tonnage and firepower. The common term is "death ball."

If you are losing as a clan unit, that is all on you.

Edited by MechregSurn, 28 October 2015 - 03:51 PM.

[VorpalAnvil]

Gee, it's almost as if when PGI wisely and bravely cowed to the terribad solos and Tier 16 Davion units, and created the new drop zones, that this was completely unforseen and not predictable by people who actually know what they are doing. Thank Kerensky that PGI doesn't listen to these experienced and knowledgeable players and only takes advice from people who believe that Lurm's are the obvious weapon choice in all situations.

[Dat Moe Foe]

My self and the 12 man of HHoD recruits would like to thank Hades and his skittles team for graciously standing in front of our lasers. It was a very successful 48-12 training exercise.

Cheating...Ha!

We have a great Davion cheese to go with that whine.

My self and the 12 man of HHoD recruits would like to thank Hades and his skittles team for graciously standing in front of our lasers. It was a very successful 48-12 training exercise.

Cheating...Ha!

We have a great Davion cheese to go with that whine.

[Anubis Ka]

Kin3ticX, on 28 October 2015 - 04:30 AM, said:

Having a hard time understanding what the cheating is......

Is he complaining about someone using coordinated ERLL spam on Boreal and calling it cheating?

Some people can't deal with the stress caused by an enemy who doesn't do things the way he wanted to, and naturally blame others over themselves. Now he is ranting because of it.

He couldn't adapt to the situation and lost.

I've seen teams do this plenty in CW and still lose.

Edited by Anubis Ka, 28 October 2015 - 03:39 PM.

[Surn]

Everyone gets rolled sometimes... do not take it to heart.

As a single player or even a small group of players, you cannot control if circumstances make you fight a man down or two men down or even 1v12 in some situations.

However, the speed and consistency of clan mechs helps keep teams moving together. So start there, then learn to fight with mechs that have one role or one advantage as you get more skilled.


P.S.

I have no problem with players who start off with LRMS as a way to get on the battlefield and learn to play. I would rather have a player slowly improve than stop playing.

[xX PUG Xx]

The thing is, Hades isn't a new or unskilled player. He has been playing as long as I have and knows how to adapt to different tactical situations. I get the feeling this post has come from the shock that he has come across one of the two IS 'Mechs that can now (barely) outrange Clan Omnis, whereas before he took a break it was unheard of.

I still find it amusing though

[xWiredx]

I have seen the tactic OP describes. I have also never been on a team that lost to it, pug or unit drop.

[Wildstreak]

What?

Did they change Boreal so you could not climb the side of Alpha? Doesn't look like it on Smurfy's.

Anyway Boreal has always been a broken map. From what I remember the only map you had to climb and expose yourself to both gate generators. Other maps have at least one gate you can open without exposing yourself.

Don't blame players for the map being broken. Ask for it to be redone in the next map pass. We already got New River City, New Forest Colony, New Caustic Valley, New Alpine Peaks is in the works. Pester PGI for a New Boreal Vault.

[Fire for Effect]

Hades Trooper, on 27 October 2015 - 08:37 PM, said:

So Boreal Vault. IS cheats using the top of the dropship area.......
8< *snip*

ok I try to translate:


mimimimimi

I lost to davion

mimimimimimimi

they had more range than me

mimimimimi

I am only allowed to use long range weapons so the enemy cannot touch my armor in my OP pay to win Clan mech...

mimimimimimimi

Nerf something

mimimimimi

Davion sux