124 replies to this topic

[Khereg]

Hades Trooper, on 05 November 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

the matter at hand in the spot on the map should be out of bounds, like like they made the spots between the gates out of bounds.

IYHO, which virtually no one else agrees with.

Edited by Khereg, 05 November 2015 - 07:59 PM.

[R Razor]

Hades Trooper, on 05 November 2015 - 06:20 PM, said:

just my choice of words may not be to your liking but they got the desired effect with over 2,000 views

More likely, it got your desired effect because people flock to threads where someone is accused of cheating or someone is whining.........this thread has both, hence the high traffic level.

[Antares102]

Hades Trooper, on 05 November 2015 - 06:04 PM, said:

But thats not the point, this isn't war it's a game...

This game IS war alright... It is the only war people (men) can fight without hurting each other.
Its called competition and competition is about winning.

[Ixiom]

I just played an Invasion game where attacking IS mechs were able to hit (and kill) O-Gen 2 on Emerald Taiga before they even opened the gates. I couldn't tell exactly where they were hitting it from. In fact, I ran to the O-gen thinking that someone jumpjetted over the gate and snuck in... but all I saw was PPCs and Large Lasers originating from beyond the attacker's side of the gate.

They took some return LRM fire... but they destroyed the O-Gen with minimal effort and exposure. This is not what the devs intended, hence it is an exploit.

Also;

Get real, Antares102. It's a game, not war. A competitive game's success hinges on balance. If you played a game of chess where White started with half the pieces that Black did... and you always played Black, then nobody would ever want to play that game with you, for good reason.

Yes, this is (kind of) a simulator, but more than anything it is a video game. If you want a 'war simulator', then any good offensive would consist of about a hundred of mechs, striking a location where the enemy is weakest- a spot guarded by maybe half a dozen mechs at most. Wow, doesn't war sound fun? Have fun getting maybe an assist if you're in anything but a light...

[Solus Bellator]

Ixiom, on 06 November 2015 - 12:39 PM, said:

I just played an Invasion game where attacking IS mechs were able to hit (and kill) O-Gen 2 on Emerald Taiga before they even opened the gates. I couldn't tell exactly where they were hitting it from. In fact, I ran to the O-gen thinking that someone jumpjetted over the gate and snuck in... but all I saw was PPCs and Large Lasers originating from beyond the attacker's side of the gate.

They took some return LRM fire... but they destroyed the O-Gen with minimal effort and exposure. This is not what the devs intended, hence it is an exploit..

Actually buddy, that was me shooting O-gen2 from the hill outside Alpha gate with 2x ER LL in my TDR 5SS. If you deem taking constant LRM fire and dodging return fire from two C-ER PPC equipped Novas as "minimal effort or exposure", I guess you must have loved the big ball of 11 'Mechs that trundled in to take out the other O-Gens and turrets. They were fully exposed for you

For those of us that play CW a fair bit and know the maps and what 'Mechs/loadouts can do what and from where, it isn't much of an exploit. More a case of some forethought and dare I say planning, actually building a 'Mech to use for a specific task and then accepting the limitations it imposes once the task is complete.

But everyone is entitled to their opinion.

P.S. the combined LRM and PPC fire had me stripped of an arm and down to around 60% health by the time I finally destroyed the O-Gen. Admitedly it would have been more efficient for me to have joined the push but I was amused watching a few of your team running around looking for the sneak attack.

[SkippyT72]

All PGI needs to do there to rotate OGen2 by 180 degrees and that would stop folks from hitting it before they ever enter the base.


Cheating, no, cheap and not as intended, yep unless like PGI, military planners are stupid enough to put guarded objectives in the open to be hit at range, of course they won't last long in the military with that brain dead kind of planning now will they?

I mean the DID put the smaller windows on them to keep folks from light rushing with Srm/streak boats, but I'm sure they left it open for long range snipers to hit it from outside the base right.....

Edited by SkippyT72, 07 November 2015 - 07:06 AM.

[Theron Branson]

It's not cheating by any means when both sides do it all the time. As said before the snipers up on the ridge do so little damage that they are there to just rattle your cage. It's tactics and they will change every time PGI changes the game which is why so many are leaving this game. They should get rid of all gens (esp gate gens) and just have destructible gates that crumble after being shot at. Instead of gens they should make tactical buildings to destroy as well (Like barracks, command, munitions and so on. These would be easy to add and change yet they've done nothing to CW.

[Ixiom]

One mech took 40% damage to bring down an O-Gen with limited expenditure of resources (armor/drop)

With an ECM next to you, you could have done with even lessreturn fire, unless a light with jumpjets also brought a TAG... which tends to be uncommon.

Is a stripped arm on one mech a balanced trade to take out an O-Gen? No. No, it is not.

I'm fine with snipers taking pot shots at mechs and the like from beyond the wall, in fact I'm fine with a few mechs having long range supremacy- that enables the attackers to lay down suppressive fire and force the defenders into what might be a less advantageous defensive position... but attacking an objective is clearly intended to be a high risk/high reward act in of itself. It forces the attackers to make a choice to either push their advantage upon newly dropping mechs, try to hold on to their position to avoid being steamrolled by fresh drops... or to try and go for the objective while they have occupied Omega.

Take for instance when a team is making a bee-line to destroy Omega as soon as possible, using 1 or 2 waves and hoping to win the match in very little time. That is a valid tactic. It is high-risk, high-reward. If it fails, that entire first wave could be a bad trade and would put the attackers at a disadvantage for the rest of the match. I've seen it attempted successfully and I've seen it attempted unsuccessfully.

Taking 40% damage to destroy a Generator is low-risk, low-cost, and high-reward. At worst, the attackers lose a mech. At best, the attackers have already succeeded at accomplishing 1/4th their objective with very little expenditure of resources.

In short, it isn't balanced. It defies the intention of the devs, which is made quite obvious by the way those generators are set up and shielded.

I'm not denying that it didn't require knowledge, set-up, or pre-planning, but it is cheap ...and lame.

[Leone]

SkippyT72, on 07 November 2015 - 07:05 AM, said:

Cheating, no, cheap and not as intended, yep unless like PGI, military planners are stupid enough to put guarded objectives in the open to be hit at range, of course they won't last long in the military with that brain dead kind of planning now will they?

You really don't study much military history do you?

~Leone.

[Solus Bellator]

Ixiom, on 07 November 2015 - 10:51 AM, said:

Some stuff I agree with and some I don't but I respect your opinion

The thing is my destroying one O-Gen essentially meant nothing, the other two O-Gens and the ultimate objective of Omega is inaccessible by any means other than a direct assault. So the most logical thing to have done would be to ignore the distraction, accept the sacrifice of one O-Gen and concentrate on destroying the 11 'Mech assault team that stormed in the other gate.

Tactics and strategy, a chess player would understand and I'm sure you will recognise that sometimes you will sacrifice your Queen to take the enemy King.

P.S

Once the assault team had been taken care of, I would have pushed out and nailed my shiny, metal butt with concentrated fire. Though I can be little too aggressive in my pushes at times (and over estimating in my abilities)

'tis but a game ladies and gentleman, 'tis but a game.

[Hades Trooper]

Antares102, on 06 November 2015 - 07:41 AM, said:

This game IS war alright... It is the only war people (men) can fight without hurting each other.
Its called competition and competition is about winning.

You obviously need an outlet for your anger then if you think this is war

[Hades Trooper]

Theron Branson, on 07 November 2015 - 07:26 AM, said:

It's not cheating by any means when both sides do it all the time. As said before the snipers up on the ridge do so little damage that they are there to just rattle your cage. It's tactics and they will change every time PGI changes the game which is why so many are leaving this game. They should get rid of all gens (esp gate gens) and just have destructible gates that crumble after being shot at. Instead of gens they should make tactical buildings to destroy as well (Like barracks, command, munitions and so on. These would be easy to add and change yet they've done nothing to CW.

Exploiting poor PGI map construction is not what i'd call tactics, exploiting is cheating plain and simple and i don't care which side is doing it, so it's not whinning it's pointing out that this is broken and should have been fixed months ago when the protected defender zones where introduced.

PGI just lacks understanding of how exploitive and a must win even if i must mentality some people have as they have pent up anger and need to take there miserable lives out on someone

[Hades Trooper]

Madscotsbloke, on 07 November 2015 - 06:53 PM, said:

'tis but a game ladies and gentleman, 'tis but a game.

Exactly, an games need to be fun for both sides, if something like this ridge camping isn't fair to both sides then it should be made out of bounds so no side can use it. Simple problem fixed.

unless of course PGI wants people to ridge camp and this expect attackers to arti strike the ridge lines to act as a c-bill sink

Ridge camping exploiting? Or another c-bill sink crafted by PGI?

Edited by Hades Trooper, 07 November 2015 - 11:05 PM.

[Solus Bellator]

Hades Trooper, on 07 November 2015 - 11:03 PM, said:

Your opinion.

"Ridge camping" has to be put into context, as I tried to do above, I could have spent the entire game on that hill and if the enemy team had any sense they would have let me. After EVENTUALLY destroying ONE of FOUR objectives required to win an attack, it becomes a hinderance to the team and loses all but the slimmest of "sniping" advantage.

The advantage comes almost directly from the inability of defending players to ignore the miniscule amount of damage caused by grazing laser fire, while passing across the small areas with LOS from said hill. If they were to simply stay out of those LOS, the "sniper" becomes useless and places more burden on the remaining attackers to complete the objectives.

Which is all my opinion; I'm entitled to my point of view too.

[Ssamout]

Hades Trooper, on 07 November 2015 - 11:03 PM, said:

Exactly, an games need to be fun for both sides, if something like this ridge camping isn't fair to both sides then it should be made out of bounds so no side can use it. Simple problem fixed.

unless of course PGI wants people to ridge camp and this expect attackers to arti strike the ridge lines to act as a c-bill sink

Ridge camping exploiting? Or another c-bill sink crafted by PGI?

'Ridgecampin' is Just Plain Stupid. If you want to invite attackers to spawn camp your ass then by all means stay there, but dont qq getting stomped if you didnt move out of there in the first place.

[SkippyT72]

Leone, on 07 November 2015 - 02:33 PM, said:

You really don't study much military history do you?

~Leone.

Actually yes I do, and commanders that leave critical objectives open to attack at range don't last long and tend to get thier troops killed quickly.

[Repasy Cooper]

White Bear 84, on 27 October 2015 - 09:05 PM, said:

Ok, so possibly good point about ridge camping and potentially running a map exploit...

...but then how on earth did you lose this way? Did your team just stand in the open taking fire from this point? Last time I checked boreal there was ample gulleys and cover from the ridge & once the range gap is closed....



That would technically be classified as naming and shaming which is against the CoC..

I think the more important point is the potential use of map exploits..

I actually experienced this exploit too, a while back. It is hard to fight back against their position without exposing yourself. I suppose we could hide just as you said, but this would result in a stalemate. I'm sure the devs didn't anticipate OR want that...

[Hades Trooper]

Ssamout, on 08 November 2015 - 12:31 PM, said:

'Ridgecampin' is Just Plain Stupid. If you want to invite attackers to spawn camp your ass then by all means stay there, but dont qq getting stomped if you didnt move out of there in the first place.

Wow, how badly don't you understand, we where the attackers, you obviously didn't read the thread or understand it's a defending cheat position

[MaxFool]

Hades Trooper, on 09 November 2015 - 05:04 PM, said:

Wow, how badly don't you understand, we where the attackers, you obviously didn't read the thread or understand it's a defending cheat position

No, you are just not understanding that ridge camping is a bad tactic that's easy to counter. If it actually was a good tactic you might have someone who'd agree with you. But it's expected result of the spawn area changes, and just stupid, so it is not cheating and it's not even exploiting.

Also, there actually are teams that have several people who never exit the spawn area, and at end of the match complain about attackers camping their spawn.

Edited by MaxFool, 09 November 2015 - 09:19 PM.

[gloowa]

MaxFool, on 09 November 2015 - 09:16 PM, said:

No, you are just not understanding that ridge camping is a bad tactic that's easy to counter. If it actually was a good tactic you might have someone who'd agree with you. But it's expected result of the spawn area changes, and just stupid, so it is not cheating and it's not even exploiting/

This so much.

Did anyone else honestly expect ANYTHING else than entire teams sitting in their spawn fortress after changing dropships into Thor-the-god-of-thunder that will smite you for being anywhere within 2 astronomical units near him, AND making dropzone a viable defense position via terrain?

All that did was:
1) do absolutely nothing at all to stop spawnkill in one-sided matches (like it was a big deal anyway...), it just happens 2~3 minutes later, when attackers reach the spawns.

2) completely unbalance balanced matches (counter-attack only), by introducing a new tactic of making the attacker push through narrow passes into area where entire defending team is waiting with whole-team firing line, while being attacked by unkillable Norse God intent on removing their CTs from existence.

But the plebs loves it, because it gives them placebo of being able to waddle in their 6 machinegun+lrm crabs for 20 seconds before dying.

Whatever. Doesn't matter really to me. Plebs wants spawn fortress? Plebs gets spawn fortress AND all that comes with it. I can play either version.