122 replies to this topic

[Kjudoon]

van Uber, on 29 October 2015 - 07:09 AM, said:

Seems reasonable. My point is that since rewards have been mentioned quite frequently and from what I understand, is close to being implemented. It would be rather damaging for the game as a whole if those rewards did not come with restrictions to unit size. It's no small issue.

If rewards is not implemented then meh. Don't really care about unit sizes.

MC, like gold in other games, or other monetary credits achieved no other way, it is very dangerous for a company to give them away. Daybreak (formerly Sony Online Entertainment) never gives away Daybreak Cash and certain things are only purchasable by it.

I don't care about the unit size thing because it's easily circumvented, and I don't play this game in an effort to earn money. If I wanted to do that, I'd take up Blackjack and learn to count cards or Poker.

As for the rewards, we also had 4man groups talked about and now it's being pushed back again. Phase 3 (all hail) has been on hold for months and now we find out that they were not even working on it since Phase 2 was released? Plans and visions change.

[Davers]

Big Tin Man, on 28 October 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

We have to remember that Russ's mindset is already in CW3, where having your own planet tag has some meaning, and there aren't as many planets to fight over. If they limit unit size, and units break into splinters of themselves, MS_3 or 228d will eventually get sick of missing out on the rewards MS_1 and 228a are reaping, and break off to fight and get their own rewards. Player circulation in CW is a good thing.

You have no idea how willing people will be to share the spoils with each other in order to keep from having rivals. It's why we have criminal organizations that last generations.

[Kjudoon]

PalmaRoma, on 29 October 2015 - 07:01 AM, said:

@ KJudoon

>snip<

Also you've got to have the worst victim complex I've ever seen. It's funny, you act as if tiers 1's all enjoy mocking tiers lower than them. Additionally you think those problem players only seek to insult other players lower on the tier bar than them. By god are you clueless. I can name quite a few "special" players that mock anybody and actually exclusively seek high tier players to antagonize. A lot of the higher tier players live for competition, and are the last person to want to fight players drastically outclassed by them. The best players always strive to improve themselves, it's how they got so skilled in the first place. That competitive drive cause quite a bit of friction between others who crave that same sort of competition. Like minded doesn't always mean it's the base for a good friendship. Especially when it concerns competition. Funny how that works.

I apologized for the tone and words, but I can't force you to accept my apology, I don't feel was a fair thing say but what's been said was said. As I said I hold no Ill will towards tier 4 or 5s, rude words were said out of frustration, doesn't mean I believe them. I'm not going to press this issue any further, I did not enjoy saying what I said, I have regrets in making a rather insensitive blanket statement but I'm not going to dwell on it. You can either accept my apology or continue to senselessly drag it out.

Wow... Opportunity presents itself and the path chosen was insults and denial.

It is not 'victim status' to desire to not play with certain types of people. That is called Freedom of Association. I desire to not associate with people who are obviously beyond my skill so I can have an enjoyable time. I choose to not associate with highly competitive people because I do not desire them in my life anymore. I'm not interested in dealing with the damage they cause to themselves or others with their choices.

So then I lay down a challenge for these units and club apologists to prove Russ (and by extention myself) wrong: Start organizing matches in CW. You claim you want challenges and it's one big frat of skill, start organizing times to face each other. At least it's competitive play to match your skill, against friends AND the winner gets bragging rights of holding a planet you took over your friends. If this is what you claim you want, there's your solution. Of course, you can ignore this very easy solution to 'there's nobody to play with' with a little easy coordination because I'm only a Tier 4 player. It's not perfect either. some filthy casuals might get mixed up in it and you'll get a pallet cleansing roflstomp but you can have an entire night fighting over a planet for your honor and glory. But all the big players are known. All the teams are easy to contact. Start doing it, set your days and times just like comp play and go forth and play the game you claim to want in all the CW glory.

Either way, everyone wins if you do this. That is undeniable.

[Lightfoot]

Sounded good to me. I think the issue raised was caps on unit size and that large units would just divide into allied units. I think this is mostly a non-issue since units will possibly always ally with other units to gain some leverage. Just keep the caps high and I think units will struggle to keep full active rosters anyway. The bigger they are the harder they become to run consistently.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

"how dare you tell me my idea is bad? sigh sigh sigh"

this

[Kjudoon]

Lightfoot, on 29 October 2015 - 07:36 PM, said:

Sounded good to me. I think the issue raised was caps on unit size and that large units would just divide into allied units. I think this is mostly a non-issue since units will possibly always ally with other units to gain some leverage. Just keep the caps high and I think units will struggle to keep full active rosters anyway. The bigger they are the harder they become to run consistently.

Ain't just whistlin dixie there, brother.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Xetelian, on 28 October 2015 - 12:46 PM, said:

I want the manager of the game to know a little more about the mechs he's releasing and at least check the hard points on one or two of them before commenting.

I feel like its the blind leading the blind up in this *****.

Id like that guy to actually play the game he's making

maybe Im spoiled by CCP

[MischiefSC]

Lugh, on 29 October 2015 - 04:27 AM, said:

You want to be in a unit that has 24-7 coverage for community warfare you need members from the USA-Europe-Downunder/SE Asia

That means lots of people.

Sorry.

I'm against unit caps, I think it's a total waste of time. It'll change *nothing* save irk a couple thousand people in the big units who will respond by forming alliances and doing the same thing with a nearly insignificant inconvenience.

Fixing CW is a whole other issue but fixing 'concerns about big units' isn't done by unit caps. It's done by keeping people still long enough to work those issues out. If, like it is right now, a ton of big units join one faction then with a big of time other factions will pony up and gang up on the big group. Also the big faction may find, over time, it's harder and harder to get matches. When units switch out to find regular play they're not going to pop around weekly, they'll adjust the population in their new faction for a long time. If a unit switches to, say, Kurita for 1 week the factions on its border will barely notice. They'll be in and gone before anyone really has a chance to adjust to the population shift. If they're there for 3 months then Davion might start really pushing the DCMS border, or CSJ might. If several units went Kurita then several of its neighbors might coordinate to attack them.

That's what I'm saying. The solution isn't unit caps, it's faction stability. If faction populations change slowly then player groups have time to adjust. Currently it's just a perpetual cluster-**** as a handful of loyalist units get bounced around on every border as the populations of their enemies (or allies) change every few days.

I'm all for increasing costs for big units. That makes sense. By that I mean several hundred players. I'm all for the rewards of taking worlds (like bonuses for your unit having a tag) being paid out only on matches won, so grouping up with a unit full of great players and then scrubbing around gets you nothing. There's some intelligent limitations you do want in place.

50 player unit caps would do nothing, absolutely nothing, but promote easy work-arounds.

[Kushko]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 29 October 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

Id like that guy to actually play the game he's making

maybe Im spoiled by CCP

Russ does actually play the game he's making. Maybe you just dont know about it because he doesn't throw childish tantrums on the forums about it like all the other real players.

Don't get me wrong, i think there are a ton of things PGI, Russ and especially Paul do wrong, but every player thinks they have the magical solution to every MWO problem and possibly a way to solve world hunger while they're at it. It is however very different when you're the one driving and thousands of people looking for your every mistake.
I know ive personally had ideas that i thought were great and i even posted some on the forums and while some people agreed with me, there were also several who didnt. Now imagine im not just a random unknown player but the owner of the company that makes the game or a lead designer. Now all of a sudden even more people look in to my idea and even more people dont like it and some even get really riled up about it because it doesnt fit with their image of what the game should be and in the end you get a very vocal hate group (because lets face it, when you're pissed off you are much more likely to speek up than when you're satisfied or indifferent). And that hate group just grows and grows and gets louder and louder until it comes to a point when every change you propose is met with at best distrust and at worst pure toxicity. And all that came from one idea you had to fix something or please the majority.

As far as im concerned while Russ is in no way perfect, it shows that he really is trying. If people cant accept that than they should think about their own shortcomings instead of his.

Paul on the other hand i think should be put in charge of delivering the office mail/coffee or something instead of lead design/balancing (i admit i have fallen to the dark side when it comes to my opinion of him or more so his work).

Edited by Kushko, 29 October 2015 - 11:51 PM.

[van Uber]

MischiefSC, on 29 October 2015 - 10:33 PM, said:

50 player unit caps would do nothing, absolutely nothing, but promote easy work-arounds.

I still don't get why people insist to repeat this.

Yes it is, somewhat, true with the current iteration of MWO. But are people totally incapable of see the implications of this under CW3?

You may not like it, you may not agree with it. But it will achieve something quite significant.

[Kh0rn]

The only restrictions that needed to be implemented right from the get go was a restrictive mechlab. You just can not balance it Mechs need restrictions to how the mech was produced , why and what was its role intended. Simply throwing away engines ( which is just like what in the world ) And any thing else destroys most of the variants but its to late for it unless in their great re balance they introduce it. It would help a lot not just from lore but from Balance less variables , more variety. More reason to deploy different types of mechs.

[50 50]

I thought there was a lot to take away from the town hall meeting. Lots of really interesting features coming along and we have been waiting a fair while for a update on CW Phase 3.

Specifically in regards to the unit sizes, what was very interesting to hear was the faction population numbers dynamically affecting payments.
This was the bit where factions will fluctuate in the payments they can provide depending on how over/under populated they are. (1:25)
This is a great idea.

The point must be made though that while the population is low, the units need to be of a size relative to that population.
If there is only 100 players in CW and 80 of them are in a single unit, it becomes a very empty galaxy.
It should be viewed as a dynamic limit with the population.
If there is no spread of the population, there is no conflict.
If that one 80 player unit is in one faction, that faction will be over populated and they earn peanuts for their drops.

There are some really good developments coming through.

[Tombstoner]

players will find a way around any sized untit cap in MWO... all you need is a web page and TS.

Alliances between groups can lead to cheating. who wins can be a forgone conclusion. what can PGI do about that?

PGI is basically fubar........... They don't know what to do or are unwilling to do what is needed.

[C E Dwyer]

Big Tin Man, on 28 October 2015 - 01:08 PM, said:

In short: what the larger groups want in CW is more non-pug opponents. Russ's frustration is born from a couple of large groups who roam around looking for a fight, but can't find one because they're the only game in town outside of pugs. Then when Russ suggests limiting unit size (i.e. break up the big groups so smaller groups can fight each other), the whole room went nuts, because nobody wants to break up their superunit. Russ's frustration is based on everyone wants to be in a big group and bully someone, but when there is nobody to bully, they're upset that they can't find a fight. It's called having your cake and eating it too. MWO doesn't have the population to pull that off. We have to remember that Russ's mindset is already in CW3, where having your own planet tag has some meaning, and there aren't as many planets to fight over. If they limit unit size, and units break into splinters of themselves, MS_3 or 228d will eventually get sick of missing out on the rewards MS_1 and 228a are reaping, and break off to fight and get their own rewards. Player circulation in CW is a good thing. My vote is for units being of regimental size (108 players). It's not that radical of a step for most groups, and with all of the stated CW3 changes coming to condense the action, I don't think a massive change to unit size is truly warranted at this time. Let CW3 drop before cutting unit size any further.

Well if he and Paul had built the game they said they would the population would be twice it is now, and most the issues would not be happening.

Breaking up the units is also kind of dumb..

Merc star are alleged to have cheated big time.
now it just legitimises what they were doing, even if PGI can or are even willing to try find them guilty and ban people.

Big 300 plus membership team uses alts old style
half 1 and half 2 have a fight or well Half 2 just stands there and gets steam rolled half 1 gets name on planet.

and will it stop the rolls of course not as half 1 will keep the best players and half 2 won't.

so now half two memebership plummets because they no longer get the shiny winners toys which is why most are there for bragging rights, and go play something else, or just solo, so the same people are still rolling pugs with no benefit to the game, and it loses P.G.I money and less people are employed.

Half 1 Half 2 also join together using team speak and drop together after making a team in the lobby when half 1 is short.

So all this shrinking of the 'super teams' has done nothing to the balance of CW and only pissed people off.

start of this year I was thinking well surely by now they have a plan a proper one.

All that I have seen done and talked about has proven beyond all doubt neither the head of P.G.I have a clue.

Had they been in charge of any other title but this one it would have failed completely and closed over a year ago.

Lets be honest here.

How many of the people here, that but money into the new Battle tech title, would have done so if PGI were going to develop it.

I sure as hell wouldn't have.

Edited by Cathy, 30 October 2015 - 11:10 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

van Uber, on 30 October 2015 - 12:05 AM, said:

I still don't get why people insist to repeat this.

Yes it is, somewhat, true with the current iteration of MWO. But are people totally incapable of see the implications of this under CW3?

You may not like it, you may not agree with it. But it will achieve something quite significant.

If buy significant you mean stop spending money or just simply leave, your correct.

If I'm forced out my unit by anychanges I shall refund of my Marauder and Warhamer and play the game until my premium runs out, and then remve it from my hard drive. it's as simple as that, and the number of people that do this will not be insignificant

[Spleenslitta]

Whoops....wrong thread. Edited out.

Edited by Spleenslitta, 30 October 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[Mechwarrior Buddah]

Kushko, on 29 October 2015 - 11:48 PM, said:

Maybe you just dont know about it because he doesn't throw childish tantrums on the forums about it like all the other real players.

Or you know, having him on my friends list and he's never on so imagine moar

van Uber, on 30 October 2015 - 12:05 AM, said:

I still don't get why people insist to repeat this.

Because thats exactly what happens in other games so why wouldnt it happen here?

And it doesnt break up like you think it would. How long has the DCF lasted in EVE lol



had to edit the bad words out

look at how chaotic EVE is and there was this alliance for years holding 70+% of the capturable space in that game for that long.

Edited by Mechwarrior Buddah, 30 October 2015 - 04:36 PM.

[Ex Atlas Overlord]

Mechwarrior Buddah, on 29 October 2015 - 08:18 PM, said:

Id like that guy to actually play the game he's making

maybe Im spoiled by CCP

Holy god, eve online is a terrible boring game.

[Kin3ticX]

Bombadil and Sean Lang don't have very much CW play logged between the two of them. They are locked out of playing CW on their mains. I'd be blown away if either of them hit rank 10 on an alt account.

Unit cap is the way to go imo but 60 is crazy low. What Sean is saying at 1:44:50 not entirely true and hes misleading Russ. I don't understand why Russ is saving such a simple change until months away.

[Deathlike]

If planets in CW meant something like EVE, then unit caps make sense.

However, there's nothing currently in CW to actually make a bigger unit take any sort of penalty.

Edit:
Only cancelling a contract hurts, but most teams simply wait them out (unless it's a perma contract)... so it's not really a punishment.

Edited by Deathlike, 30 October 2015 - 10:27 PM.