76 replies to this topic

[Steel Claws]

I don't know what all of you are smoking but......

Lights are far more potent than they should be and I say that as someone who prefers driving lights and mediums. Firestarters, wolfhounds, adders and Cheetahs tank like crazy and carry more firepower than most medium mechs. I've had some of my highest kill matches in lights and cicadas. Kills and blown up components equate to more C-Bills. While I occasionally pilot a cheetah with 4 ERML, I'm personally partial to ravens but my most kills in a light came in a kitfox (7). If you aren't scoring well you are doing something wrong.
You can't drive them the same way you do bigger mechs. You have to use that speed and maneuverability.

Personally I think the max number of lasers that you should be able to fire in a light and not shut down is 4. There is no way a small mech should be able to fire 6 or more lasers. They do not have the surface area to cool down yet most run cooler than a heavy using the same weapons. Part of heat efficiency should be based on mech mass. The more mass the more surface area to dissipate heat. something like a 60 ton mech has a heat base dissipation rate of 100% and each 5 tons over or under would change that rate by 2% so that a 100 ton mech would be at 116% or so and a 35 ton light would be at 90%. Then add all your bonuses.That would go a long way in balancing out cheetahs, wolfhounds, and firestarters.

Edited by Steel Claws, 10 November 2015 - 07:10 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

Steel Claws, on 10 November 2015 - 06:56 PM, said:

I don't know what all of you are smoking but......

Lights are far more potent than they should be and I say that as someone who prefers driving lights and mediums. Firestarters, wolfhounds, adders and Cheetahs tank like crazy and carry more firepower than most medium mechs. I've had some of my highest kill matches in lights and cicadas. Kills and blown up components equate to more C-Bills. While I occasionally pilot a cheetah with 4 ERML, I'm personally partial to ravens but my most kills in a light came in a kitfox (7). If you aren't scoring well you are doing something wrong.
You can't drive them the same way you do bigger mechs. You have to use that speed and maneuverability.

Personally I think the max number of lasers that you should be able to fire in a light and not shut down is 4. There is no way a small mech should be able to fire 6 or more lasers. They do not have the surface area to cool down yet most run cooler than a heavy using the same weapons. Part of heat efficiency should be based on mech mass. The more mass the more surface area to dissipate heat. something like a 60 ton mech has a heat base dissipation rate of 100% and each 5 tons over or under would change that rate by 2% so that a 100 ton mech would be at 116% or so and a 35 ton light would be at 90%. Then add all your bonuses.That would go a long way in balancing out cheetahs, wolfhounds, and firestarters.

Yet another L2P Assault player quoting the holy trinity of light mechs.

Take a locust, take a Timberwolf and tell me which will earn more C-Bills by Far on average.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 10 November 2015 - 07:31 PM.

[MechWarrior3671771]

"if fact, the heavier mechs reap the same bonus. Advantage to everyone, not just to lights and thus, no compensation."

Yup, and they'll just up the cbill costs on mechs and modules, so lights will still be proportionally screwed.

The problem is that rewards are heavily weighted toward damage done, and normal lights (not the crutch mechs) have to work twice as hard because of low alphas. The solution is to buff light rewards.

Russ has said some stuff on Twitter about the next patch increasing rewards for caps in Assault and Conquest, and I *think* he talked about buffing rewards for lights in general, but I'm not sure because Twitter is a stupid venue for feedback.

[DarthHias]

"Adder tanks like crazy"
Sorry I love my Adders and had many great games in them but I call BS on that. It´s definitely a high skill mech and no tanking god.

[Cptn Goodvibes Pig of Steel]

I don't think you'll ever get away from players taking Heavy mechs into a match because they deal out the most damage. Rather, I'd suggest that instead of using the same old 12 versus 12 mech formulla, the developers trial a mode where each team is allocated 600 tonnes. Mechs are then assigned from a queue to each team up to that tonnage value, irrespective of the numbers of mech's in that team. Forget about the four mech lance groups, which never stay in formation anyway. In this way, you'll see a much greater variation and tactical unpredictability to game play. Sure, there's always the possibility of thirty 20 tonne Locusts meeting six 100 tonne Atlases, but I'd suspect that numbers would nearly always be somewhere in between this range. Moreover, your team is rewarded when one of its members takes a light mech into combat, as this frees up weight for extra or heavier mechs.

[L A V A]

Fenrisulvyn, on 09 November 2015 - 04:02 PM, said:

Seems like an easy fix - they already have code in place to buff earnings by 30% (hero) and 50% (premium).

Just spin up rewards based on weight class, something like:

Heavy +10%
Medium +20%
Light +30%

and adjust as necessary.

That makes a lot of sense actually, especially as you noted they have the code in place and it would thus be an easy fix.

I would, however, leave the Heavy as the "standard" and go with something like this:

Assault +10%
Heavy
Medium +20%
Light + 30%

The whole point is not what mech does the most damage or which mechs are OP, but leveling the playing field so that folks can grind, play and compete in competitions in ALL mech types and have fun.

[Steel Claws]

Darian DelFord, on 10 November 2015 - 07:22 PM, said:

Yet another L2P Assault player quoting the holy trinity of light mechs.

Take a locust, take a Timberwolf and tell me which will earn more C-Bills by Far on average.

What, you think I go after caps? I actually play far more skirmish. What I'm saying is that why do you think it matters what mech you climb in? The scores are all calculated the same based on how YOU do in it. Lights are not short changed because they are lights. I play all sizes of mechs and have since this game was in beta. I really don't see any real differences in c-bills based on what I drive quite the contrary I do as well or better in mediums and lights than I do in heavies or assaults so I don't understand your reason for wanting a boost. I suppose if it makes you happy go for it. I just don't see the need for it.

Edited by Steel Claws, 11 November 2015 - 03:02 PM.

[Clit Beastwood]

Darian DelFord, on 10 November 2015 - 07:22 PM, said:

Yet another L2P Assault player quoting the holy trinity of light mechs.

I still maintain that maybe you aren't a light pilot :shrug: I don't know what else to say. Here's a selection of screens from the last, oh, I think 4-5 days? Good games and some not so good, but the average is pretty close to med/hvy performance. I'm not a fan of assaults but do OK in those, though I tend to prefer maneuverable > fast > powerful. I got tired of running ACH since its boring and have been swapping back to locusts and urbies for lulz. Last night I started running jenners again to get back into the groove. They're not bad, definitely not worse than urbies. When people say L2P, maybe listen - the game gets more fun once you do. Spend more time with your ears open and your mouth shut and you might learn something.


















This is how the mechs from the screenshots above actually LOOK - I'm not a peeky pokey sneaky player.

Edited by Fierostetz, 11 November 2015 - 03:37 PM.

[ArandomSTD]

Well I figure I'll drop my two cents in.

I am a newer pilot, my creation date is August 25 2015, and I pilot pretty well light mechs only.

I started off the game by trialling the Raven and the Thunderbolt. Really enjoyed the 3L and eventually in a game saw a Firestarter do like 600 damage. This totally amazed me how a light mech could do that, so I purchased the FS9-A as my first mech. While I am a fairly new pilot, I definitely started to kick ass with 32 damage alphas to the dome / back with the FS9-A, which then led me to the ACH chassis. I bought the Invasion variant just before the ACH went up for mc, and boy was that a great decision, I didn't even know it had 30% cbill boost till a few weeks ago

I never once thought to myself, "man I am not making enough c-bills" I play aggressively and usually avg 2-3 kills per game and do at least 300 damage, this nets me around 150K cbills per match with 30% from my invasion variant, which I think is great. If I perform well and have premium up I can get 250k in a real good game, which does happen if the map is urban. (Thank you new vote system ) Even with my FS9-A I would avg. 100k Cbills a match, which I think is pretty damn good.

Definitely make more cbills on my light than my Timby, but that is because I am a much better light pilot than heavy.

TLDR : New light pilot, thinks cbills are plentiful as long you play well and contribute to the team.

EDIT : I am tier 3, almost tier 2, my bar is filled up to the m on the dismiss tab thingy.

Edited by ArandomSTD, 11 November 2015 - 04:10 PM.

[Clit Beastwood]

ArandomSTD, on 11 November 2015 - 04:08 PM, said:

Well I figure I'll drop my two cents in.

I am a newer pilot, my creation date is August 25 2015, and I pilot pretty well light mechs only.

I started off the game by trialling the Raven and the Thunderbolt. Really enjoyed the 3L and eventually in a game saw a Firestarter do like 600 damage. This totally amazed me how a light mech could do that, so I purchased the FS9-A as my first mech. While I am a fairly new pilot, I definitely started to kick ass with 32 damage alphas to the dome / back with the FS9-A, which then led me to the ACH chassis. I bought the Invasion variant just before the ACH went up for mc, and boy was that a great decision, I didn't even know it had 30% cbill boost till a few weeks ago

I never once thought to myself, "man I am not making enough c-bills" I play aggressively and usually avg 2-3 kills per game and do at least 300 damage, this nets me around 150K cbills per match with 30% from my invasion variant, which I think is great. If I perform well and have premium up I can get 250k in a real good game, which does happen if the map is urban. (Thank you new vote system ) Even with my FS9-A I would avg. 100k Cbills a match, which I think is pretty damn good.

Definitely make more cbills on my light than my Timby, but that is because I am a much better light pilot than heavy.

TLDR : New light pilot, thinks cbills are plentiful as long you play well and contribute to the team.

EDIT : I am tier 3, almost tier 2, my bar is filled up to the m on the dismiss tab thingy.

Welcome! Glad to hear that you're digging lights! Don't let the ACH make you lazy tho

If you liked the FS9-a *and* you are an adrenaline junky, try the LCT-1e - it's like a snowmobile with lasers!

[ArandomSTD]

Fierostetz, on 11 November 2015 - 04:15 PM, said:

Welcome! Glad to hear that you're digging lights! Don't let the ACH make you lazy tho

If you liked the FS9-a *and* you are an adrenaline junky, try the LCT-1e - it's like a snowmobile with lasers!

Thank you, and yes I do have a LCT-1e, xl 190 engine and 6 small pulse, it performs very well. The quirks on it are unreal, I almost want to try some mls, but ultimately find spls king. The only thing is I don't have it mastered like I do with the FS, and ACH. And I am the furthest thing from a lazy pilot, I like to win, and love to look good while doing it. I wouldn't consider myself an ace pilot, but I have done very well for my low tenure as a mechwarrior. I am trying very hard to hit the 1000 damage club but still haven't attained it. I have done 900 a handful of times but never 1000. Seeing how you are a tier 1 pilot, how do I do 1000 damage in a match? Do I have to be lucky aka all the stars align? Or do I just have to play better?

[Melon Lord]

When I first started playing about a year ago I got a SDR-5D as my first mech. Loved running to cover fatties with ECM as they waddled their way to the group at the beginning of the game through open terrain. Loved running through the enemy team trying to get some to chase the squirrel so my team could pummel the rest, despite the fact it would shred my armor. Loved sticking with the group to give them ECM cover despite the fact my main weapon is my speed. Loved running to help the lone assault that was being pecked to death by other lights, despite the fact I usually was limping out of the fight if I walked away at all.

I also didn't mind the 50-75k per win I made since I was having FUN. Sadly the Stormcrow went half price about 2 months after I started so I bought 3. Realized I could be making on average 200k per match, about 3-4 times what I made with my Spider per match. I still rarely take my SDR-5D out because it's the mech I really love playing, but even now the earnings are still pretty much the same. Granted I think the Stormcrow earnings have been dropped a bit to about 150-175k per match, but the Spider is still relatively the same.

[Darian DelFord]

Fierostetz, on 11 November 2015 - 03:30 PM, said:

I still maintain that maybe you aren't a light pilot :shrug: I don't know what else to say. Here's a selection of screens from the last, oh, I think 4-5 days? Good games and some not so good, but the average is pretty close to med/hvy performance. I'm not a fan of assaults but do OK in those, though I tend to prefer maneuverable > fast > powerful. I got tired of running ACH since its boring and have been swapping back to locusts and urbies for lulz. Last night I started running jenners again to get back into the groove. They're not bad, definitely not worse than urbies. When people say L2P, maybe listen - the game gets more fun once you do. Spend more time with your ears open and your mouth shut and you might learn something.


This is how the mechs from the screenshots above actually LOOK - I'm not a peeky pokey sneaky player.

About the only thing you have better than I is your arrogance.











I suggest you not assume I am a clueless light. I know my Jenners and lights as well. Of course I already can see your next attempt at a rebuttal coming in.

The point of my thread is simple in the current state the game is slanted towards the Heavier mechs and Cbills and XP gain. Its really a simple point. But you just wish to assume people need to L2P. I know how to play thank you.

[FitzSimmons]

Darian DelFord, on 01 November 2015 - 07:14 PM, said:

The disparity between lights and the heavies needs to be closed significantly in regards to C-bill acquisition. I have to work for every C-bill in a light to where in a heavy I can earn them practically sleeping.

This is not addressed in the new balance either on the PTS. I actually lost even more C-bills as a light pilot on that one.

This seriously needs to be addressed. The difference between the gain is night and day. Yet another reason the light queue is below 10%

This sounds like you are either
1) Not being active enough: scouting, capping, flanking, counter ecm, spotting all yield good earnings at the rate you should be doing them in.
2) Not doing enough damage (which admittedly is hard to do in a number of chassis)

I don't get the jackpot earnings as much in my lights compared to big hitters, but I don't get the 50k earnings games either when your team gets rolled. Honestly, I feel like my average earnings are higher in lights by a small margin.

EDIT - so obviously #2 is not your issue. Who knows - mileage may vary I guess.

Edited by FitzSimmons, 11 November 2015 - 07:46 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

FitzSimmons, on 11 November 2015 - 07:44 PM, said:

This sounds like you are either
1) Not being active enough: scouting, capping, flanking, counter ecm, spotting all yield good earnings at the rate you should be doing them in.
2) Not doing enough damage (which admittedly is hard to do in a number of chassis)

I don't get the jackpot earnings as much in my lights compared to big hitters, but I don't get the 50k earnings games either when your team gets rolled. Honestly, I feel like my average earnings are higher in lights by a small margin.

EDIT - so obviously #2 is not your issue. Who knows - mileage may vary I guess.

Scouting can only be done once per mech so 12 times. Rarely will you ever get half. Only certain lights have ECM so no go there. No choice to cap or what not with voting, and honestly the bonuses for capping suck. Flanking is about all you have. The timer on that is what 12 or 15 seconds? Same with Hit and Run? The rewards need to be adjusted by class.

[FitzSimmons]

That's a total cop out dude. Its quite easy to scout in a non-ECM light.

Yes, I get it - one flanking is only 1500CBills. Scouting is only 2000Cbills. Spotting is only 500. The point is they add up in a huge way. I usually get 8-12 flanks, 3-6scouts, and so on which adds up to a 100k game without breaking a sweat. Hell, in my KFX I probably averaged 120k CBills and I just calculated my average damage out to be 230.

Maybe the problem is that your thinking of all the carry games you had in a heavy with 1000 damage. Dont forget that, at least for mediocre players like me, its really easy to get horrible earnings in a heavy/assault if your team gets 0-2 kills regardless of your damage output.

Either way - better luck and I hope the upcoming changes to earnings help you out.

EDIT - clarification: by capping I mean first cap (4500). Other capping is 2000 so not as valuable to the team or your wallet. After first cap I'm going after red doritos like everyone else.

Edited by FitzSimmons, 11 November 2015 - 08:07 PM.

[Darian DelFord]

FitzSimmons, on 11 November 2015 - 08:04 PM, said:

That's a total cop out dude. Its quite easy to scout in a non-ECM light.

Yes, I get it - one flanking is only 1500CBills. Scouting is only 2000Cbills. Spotting is only 500. The point is they add up in a huge way. I usually get 8-12 flanks, 3-6scouts, and so on which adds up to a 100k game without breaking a sweat. Hell, in my KFX I probably averaged 120k CBills and I just calculated my average damage out to be 230.

Maybe the problem is that your thinking of all the carry games you had in a heavy with 1000 damage. Dont forget that, at least for mediocre players like me, its really easy to get horrible earnings in a heavy/assault if your team gets 0-2 kills regardless of your damage output.

Either way - better luck and I hope the upcoming changes to earnings help you out.

EDIT - clarification: by capping I mean first cap (4500). Other capping is 2000 so not as valuable to the team or your wallet. After first cap I'm going after red doritos like everyone else.

You are mis understanding what I am saying. You can only get the 2k bonus 12 times in a match. once for each mech. once it is scouted there is no scouting bonus rewarded for anyone else. So a total of 24k C-Bills only for the entire enemy team to be scouted, thats it.

And for the record, I do not pilot heavies other than a break from lights.

Edited by Darian DelFord, 11 November 2015 - 08:38 PM.