67 replies to this topic

[Clit Beastwood]

Roadbuster, on 04 November 2015 - 07:47 AM, said:

Part of the problem is the trend of high alphas and perfect pinpoint.
It makes a big difference getting hit by 4 LPL at once or one after another.

Slightly reduce damage of all weapons
Reduce heat threshold.
Increase heat dissipation of DHS.
Increase heat capacity for SHS.
Reduce the insane 20-25% quirks.
Reduce (not increase) laser range.

That's what I'd like to try.

I made a quick list of things I'd like to see TTK complainers try
1. Learn how to shoot while moving
2. Learn how to use cover
3. Learn how to twist
4. Learn how to move with a team
5. Learn that maneuverability is an asset
6. Learn that being passive gets you killed

[Clit Beastwood]

mogs01gt, on 04 November 2015 - 06:33 AM, said:

All you have to do is poke out a few inches too far and you're dead.

The answer's right there - stop poking. Make sensible trades.

[Tombstoner]

Fierostetz, on 04 November 2015 - 08:47 AM, said:

I made a quick list of things I'd like to see TTK complainers try
1. Learn how to shoot while moving
2. Learn how to use cover
3. Learn how to twist
4. Learn how to move with a team
5. Learn that maneuverability is an asset
6. Learn that being passive gets you killed

None of that fixes issues with the core design, target profile/speed interactions, torso twist linked to engine size/speed
The atlas/direwolf and others are simply less durable then a timber wolf.

[Weeny Machine]

Tombstoner, on 04 November 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

None of that fixes issues with the core design, target profile/speed interactions, torso twist linked to engine size/speed
The atlas/direwolf and others are simply less durable then a timber wolf.

...and make it nearly impossible for lights to stay out of their firing arc for a meaningful amount of time

[Clit Beastwood]

Tombstoner, on 04 November 2015 - 08:55 AM, said:

None of that fixes issues with the core design, target profile/speed interactions, torso twist linked to engine size/speed
The atlas/direwolf and others are simply less durable then a timber wolf.

I don't know what to tell you - there are a lot of people out there playing quite proficiently that don't see these as problems. What we tend to complain about to each other is "omg look at that dude sticking his head out on HPG - didn't he see the 2 dires up top? - he's gonna die". Oh, surprise, that player died. :shrug: This game is based on an *extremely* simple set of mechanics. Look at the map thing at the bottom of the screen - if you are with other blue triangles, go toward the smaller set of red triangles. Hold W at all times, and left click until you win. W=Win. If the heat bar gets full, shoot less - maybe even slow down for a minute to cool off.

Edited by Fierostetz, 04 November 2015 - 09:00 AM.

[Tombstoner]

Fierostetz, on 04 November 2015 - 08:58 AM, said:

I don't know what to tell you - there are a lot of people out there playing quite proficiently that don't see these as problems. What we tend to complain about to each other is "omg look at that dude sticking his head out on HPG - didn't he see the 2 dires up top? - he's gonna die". Oh, surprise, that player died. :shrug: This game is based on an *extremely* simple set of mechanics. Look at the map thing at the bottom of the screen - if you are with other blue triangles, go toward the smaller set of red triangles. Hold W at all times, and left click until you win. W=Win. If the heat bar gets full, shoot less - maybe even slow down for a minute to cool off.

I agree with you. people don't see it. they take the game at face value and don't consider the underlying mechanism.

Yes the mechanics are simple. One could describe them as minimally viable. But from first had experience don't you find it very easy to make placed shots. on assaults or stationary lights. Does this not affect TTK. for a light thats your own dame fault. but for a Dire wolf your locked. some see this as ok, but the math doesn't support parity. the best bang per ton is going to be the clan heavy.

The game seems to be trying to make all classes equal except for price.... thats TT btw. price should reflect MWO in game performance abut it doesn't.

Consider if the mechanics where fixed, Players would adapt easily. Assaults would need cooperation to be taken down. LRM support becomes needed as players fight for position. Brawling becomes viable. lights flank/spot and go for rear armor shots. Players can risk running in the open to get better field position. The assault could trade armor for positioning and can lead charges without fearing being cored in 8-12 seconds.

[Clit Beastwood]

This whole endeavor is trying to balance people that spend (way too much) time in testing grounds and private matches honing skills against people that want to sit down and play. Instead of the sesquipedalian nerf train, just create two game modes - casual and ranked. Lore junkies and TT enthusiasts won't have to mesh with people that are good at MWO.

[TLBFestus]

Here is the sad news.

CoD sells a butt load of games. They cater to ADD kiddies and players that can't wait more than 5 seconds to respawn and shoot again. It's so ridiculous that you can shoot and kill a player, turn around and 5 seconds later he kills you right back.

The Short attention span generation demands constant input.

MWO is trying to cater to that to tap that market, so the TTK has shrunk over the years.

[Clit Beastwood]

TLBFestus, on 04 November 2015 - 10:54 AM, said:

Here is the sad news.

CoD sells a butt load of games. They cater to ADD kiddies and players that can't wait more than 5 seconds to respawn and shoot again. It's so ridiculous that you can shoot and kill a player, turn around and 5 seconds later he kills you right back.

The Short attention span generation demands constant input.

MWO is trying to cater to that to tap that market, so the TTK has shrunk over the years.

Well hitreg has gotten better too

[SirLANsalot]

The Reason TTK is so short is this game is still using Damage and Armor numbers from a TURN BASED game not a real time based game. Granted the AV was doubled in CB and has remained unchanged since then.

To Increase TTK there are few tricks that can be done with numbers that do not effect the "core" of a weapon or mech.

The first one that can be done is to double armor (again) and internal HP, this gives each mech that...tank...feel. Right now, even in a big ol Fatlas, you do not feel tanky at all, yet you have the highest of armor values in the CT/ST. Even front stacking over 100 PTS of armor in the CT, still can get cored quite quickly. Many mechs have big hit boxes for areas just because of the design (Dire Wolf I am looking at you) which, in essence, reduces the AV of the area without actually doing anything to the number (easier to hit = easier to kill).
The other effect of increasing durability of mechs is it will also effect how people build there mechs. The game will go from high Alpha, to high DPS. So guns like the AC2/5/10 and the LPL will be more favorable over PPC/AC20/Gauss. That is not to say those guns won't be used they will still have there place for poking. Overall this increased TTK as it will make torso twisting even more effective, and give light/medium mechs a little boon in suitability, as there speed will mean even more then before because those paper-cut hits wont hurt so much anymore. Although an AC20 will still end a light mechs day.


The other way about increasing TTK is to increase CD of guns, but that has an adverse effect of making the game more alpha based as well as leaving a bad taste in players mouths each time they use a gun that once had a 2sec RoF (like when people use the AC2 post RoF nerf and still remember when it used to be .5)


Overall the TTK does need to be increased, weather that be by upping the durability of mechs, or cutting all weapons damage in half, something does need to be done.

[NiuqOteen]

I would love to see a large increase on TTK
Playing World of tanks you sometimes see a one player overcome multiple other players, this so rarely happens in MWO once outnumbered.
The Epic fight feel is often missing.
One bad trade and you can be crippled, 2 players hit ya with 30-35ish alphas let say they were Gauss so you had no opportunity to twist. Now you are forced to play far more cautious, and its happened to all of us at least once.

Highly skilled players saying play better, i understand i get it.
The game play is mostly humping some piece of cover and out trading the enemy in damage.
Rather see a state of the game that encouraged more aggressive play.

[Troutmonkey]

Fierostetz, on 04 November 2015 - 08:58 AM, said:

I don't know what to tell you - there are a lot of people out there playing quite proficiently that don't see these as problems. What we tend to complain about to each other is "omg look at that dude sticking his head out on HPG - didn't he see the 2 dires up top? - he's gonna die". Oh, surprise, that player died. :shrug: This game is based on an *extremely* simple set of mechanics. Look at the map thing at the bottom of the screen - if you are with other blue triangles, go toward the smaller set of red triangles. Hold W at all times, and left click until you win. W=Win. If the heat bar gets full, shoot less - maybe even slow down for a minute to cool off.

Been playing since Open Beta, and I've seen TTK drop considerably a number of times now. You can't deny it. Some players much prefer the slower pace from those early days, instead of today's game where one mistake of peaking at the wrong time could lead to near instant not-fun-destruction.

TTK drops since Closed Beta:

• Double Heats sinks
  
• XL engines
  
• Removal of convergence time

TTK drops since Open Beta:

• Moving from 8v8 to 12v12 increased the chances of getting focus fired by multiple mechs.
  
• Clan Mechs added with the ability to boat lighter, better weapons
  
• Quirks added to IS mechs to counter Clans

It's been a bloody awful arms race to match the power of Timbers, Dires and Crows, when the whole time it would have been easier to bring those chassis's down a notch instead.

[Peter2k]

Funny how no one in this thread seems to have noticed the mention of armor and structure quirks in the pts notes

PGI knows TTK is too low despite people blaming other online games and PGI's supposedly catering to those with ADD (hell I bet 98% of those with ADD actually don't have ADD but need to get they're butt up and away from a tv/screen once in a while and Ritalin is a parents parking kids in front of tv all day problem)

Though pin point is always going to be biggest problem for MWO, coming from a game designed to roll a dice to decide hit location

Hidden in the wall of text of the pts notes is this
"Atlas should become a force to be reckoned with"

Time will tell

[cSand]

TTK was actually great before clams

Then clams came, and then IS mechs were super quirked to match that power

now TTK is where it is, for that reason.

[Khobai]

atlas force to be reckoned with lol

it wont even be able to reckon up a hill if the new PTR skill trees go live

people have been complaining about assault hillclimbing for months.... even giving screenshot evidence of assaults getting stuck on certain spots on maps.

so PGI in their infinite wisdom has decided to significantly decrease assault mech acceleration (via the skill tree nerfs) making it even more difficult for them to climb up hills and over pebbles/pipes/roots.

brilliant.

Quote

Then clams came, and then IS mechs were super quirked to match that power

it wasnt just clans though. It was a combination of 12v12, clan tech, and modules/quirks. They all contribute to TTK being way too low.

Edited by Khobai, 04 November 2015 - 03:33 PM.

[Peter2k]

Over the years since closed beta there have been quite some ideas to cope with low TTK
PGI just needs to pick them up, maybe refine them and put them on the pts and see how it goes

There have been may good ideas to a lot of issues
Just never any feedback
;sad

[Escef]

cSand, on 04 November 2015 - 03:25 PM, said:

TTK was actually great before clams

Then clams came, and then IS mechs were super quirked to match that power

now TTK is where it is, for that reason.

Yeah, because people weren't whining about being one-shotted by SplatCats and BoomCats? Or 4-6 PPC Stalkers? Or about the AC/PPC or AC/LL metas? People that say everything was fine before clans and that the game was a long TTK utopia that was ruined by the clans seem VERY ignorant to me.

Edited by Escef, 04 November 2015 - 06:31 PM.

[Kjudoon]

TLB if i wanted Call of Dookie i would b3 playing that instead. On a console. Not this game.

If players want Call of Dookie they need to uninstall and go play it instead of ruining this game. Or go play hawken if you must have mechs.

Pgi needs to look at the pc market and see fps games are a very small fraction of the pc market while simulators and strategy games are massive here.

[Kjudoon]

After reading some of the "advice" on how to increase your ttk i laughed. It all boiled down to "there is nothing wrong with ttk. You just suck so git gud oar gir rekt."

Helpful.

True story.

[ChronoBear]

My experience as an Assault pilot

My armor is made of paper.

With the high alpha that BOTH SIDES can boat one gets shredded very quickly.

The time it takes to kill needs to be increased ... and the fix is pretty easy.

• A heat sale that actually mirrors o mimics the Table Top version
  
• Weapon convergence needs to go away OR a cone of fire needs to be implemented