344 replies to this topic

[Butane9000]

Skadi, on 09 July 2012 - 04:21 PM, said:

atm the only mechs ingame (im basing this off of leaked beta video/official videos/screenshots, so dont scream nda breaker at me) is the Dragon, Jenner, Atlas, Hunchback, Commando, Catapult, and the Centurion.

Yea we don't know if the Cicada will be in at launch. Most likely the next mech will be an assault (2 Lights - Jenner/Commando, 2 Mediums - Hunchback/Centurion, 2 Heavies - Catapult/Dragon and only 1 Assault - Atlas). So more then likely the next mech added to the beta will be the Awesome.

The next 3 added would be based on weight in order of Light to assault (guessing, could be random?). Which would mean: The Raven followed by the Cicada and then the Cataphract. That will equal the 10 mechs they are shooting for at release.

We can extrapolate from there on the release cycle (if it is indeed light to assault ordering)

Stalker -> unannounced light -> Trebuchet -> Jagermech -> unannounced assault -> repeating unannounced mechs

[Skadi]

Saren21, on 09 July 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

yes if you Look here you can find all the mechs they have announced so far you just gotta scroll past all the pages to get to each one.

i dont think his question was what mechs have been anounced, but more of whats actualy in the game right now/what will be acessable at launch. (just see my previous post, as i havnt found a official dev post saying what they have in the game, if there is one please link it to me)

Butane9000, on 09 July 2012 - 04:28 PM, said:

Yea we don't know if the Cicada will be in at launch. Most likely the next mech will be an assault (2 Lights - Jenner/Commando, 2 Mediums - Hunchback/Centurion, 2 Heavies - Catapult/Dragon and only 1 Assault - Atlas). So more then likely the next mech added to the beta will be the Awesome.

The next 3 added would be based on weight in order of Light to assault (guessing, could be random?). Which would mean: The Raven followed by the Cicada and then the Cataphract. That will equal the 10 mechs they are shooting for at release.

We can extrapolate from there on the release cycle (if it is indeed light to assault ordering)

Stalker -> unannounced light -> Trebuchet -> Jagermech -> unannounced assault -> repeating unannounced mechs

my money on when the next mech being added to beta is tomorrow, seeing as they have alot being done tomorrow. (susposed next mech anouncement is tomorrow, i think next SS of the week is tomorrow as well?, just search the junk, people like trying to figure this stuff out)
Edit: as for the next mech, it probaly will be the awesome, but hell they may add multiple mechs, worse part is we'll never find out which ones actualy get in untill a dev posts a SS of the week and it may happen to be in it

Edited by Skadi, 09 July 2012 - 04:33 PM.

[Blaze32]

Saren21, on 09 July 2012 - 04:27 PM, said:

yes if you Look here you can find all the mechs they have announced so far you just gotta scroll past all the pages to get to each one.

I know that but in the leaked video there were only like 7 mechs and no cicada i know what has been announced just wondering if it will be after launch that everything will be added in game

[Skadi]

Blaze32, on 09 July 2012 - 04:34 PM, said:

I know that but in the leaked video there were only like 7 mechs and no cicada i know what has been announced just wondering if it will be after launch that everything will be added in game

*points to his previous posts and Butane9000's*

Edited by Skadi, 09 July 2012 - 04:35 PM.

[Blaze32]

Skadi, on 09 July 2012 - 04:35 PM, said:

*points to his previous posts and Butane9000's*

oops skipped over it thanks for the answer.

[Dimestore]

thontor, on 09 July 2012 - 03:46 PM, said:

I agree, completely open customization actually reduces mech build variety for anyone that want's to stay competitive. Everyone will bring a boat of some kind, just like in previous games that followed the TT customization, like MW2 and MW3, those were full of laser boats, missile boats, whatever. If you wanted to be competitive, you built a boat of some kind.

This actually reduced the customization really, sure you could do anything you wanted, but if you didnt boat up on some kind of weapon, you were putting yourself at a disadvantage.

I think limiting the number of each type of weapon you can put in each part of the mech will open up more interesting combinations, in my opinion, and you'll see less of everyone using the same config

I played the table-top version for quite a while with the 'anything that fits' rules and this is precisely what happened. There were a limited number of optimal configurations and anyone who veered too far from them was cut to pieces.

It is not innately bad to allow 'anything that fits' customization, but it has repercussions. One of those is that the back story & game world fall apart. The IS had dozens of mech chassis & variants for every weight class; if it was just a matter of hopping over to the mech bays to retrofit anything that would fit they would have just produced generic mech templates by weight class. Even the 'anything that fits' was supposed to represent a House or major Merc Corps paying huge cash and spending years to have that specific variant designed, tested, redesigned when major flaws were found, field tested, redesigned, and finally put into service. This was not Bob & Luanne in their shop for a week.

So this really comes down to laying the foundation for the campaign game that has been hinted at (world conquest, resource management, advancing timelines & resulting tech upgrades).

Even without 'anything that fits' there is still a huge amount of customization available. Every complaint I've heard against this I've heard has boiled down to "I was good at gaming the rules, keep them the same so I don't have to adapt". Speaking as a previous frequent captain of laser boats myself, I understand the sentiment but I don't think it is as persuasive as some seem to insist.

[Wolv e]

Hax DB Header, on 09 July 2012 - 05:31 PM, said:

Even without 'anything that fits' there is still a huge amount of customization available. Every complaint I've heard against this I've heard has boiled down to "I was good at gaming the rules, keep them the same so I don't have to adapt". Speaking as a previous frequent captain of laser boats myself, I understand the sentiment but I don't think it is as persuasive as some seem to insist.

For me it is about the game lore itself. As was previously stated, the houses would configure and test the chassis and the loadout over a period of time, taking years to develop these mechs. This game is supposed to be real time, 1 game day = 1 day of our time, but the mechlab does not apply to this rule, thus we can "customize" the mechs with their hard points and critical points and just fill in the blanks, drop a few C bills and have our mech and be back in a solaris tournament in no time............

I am not a purist, I know there needs to be customization, but there has to be limits that makes sense and keeps to the core of the game itself intact. Trust me on this, with open customization, there will be a build that trumps all others, and that will be the ONLY mech used from there on............say what you will, but if the past has taught us anything from all previous MMO's, is, if it can be done it will be done.....even if the devs did not intend for it to happen.

[Bearcut]

I know you are worried about "boating", op, like you mentioned... Tons of the same weapon... but the fact is, if you don't allow for customization, then the game will become unbalanced between chassis.
Example - DRG-1N is woefully underpowered for its size. A little customization, and you'll have a great mech that'll make someone happy. Should they stick to canon just to make you happy? No, because then nobody in their right mind would pilot a dragon for long.

Mechlab increases playability.

[Bearcut]

Just wanted to say: personally, I could do without a Mechlab. It makes mechs more collectable.
But really I understand that
1) That will make alot of people unhappy, lowering player base
2) That will make alot of chassis/variants obsolete.

So bring on the mechlab! The devs are doing their best to try and keep people from making ridiculous variants; we just have to hope theyll balance their game well.

[Sythiss]

the nice thing is that it looks like the basics have been covered. Its funny, some people would prefer pre made mechs that you cant do anything to, claiming then its down to skill an tactics. Others want to be able to do whatever they want. Im just glad we are getting this game and go with my usual i wnt an awsome... change the weapons ??? are you mad.

[Bearcut]

Sythiss, on 09 July 2012 - 06:52 PM, said:

the nice thing is that it looks like the basics have been covered. Its funny, some people would prefer pre made mechs that you cant do anything to, claiming then its down to skill an tactics. Others want to be able to do whatever they want. Im just glad we are getting this game and go with my usual i wnt an awsome... change the weapons ??? are you mad.

Yeah the awesome is one of the few stock mechs that runs well without mods.
But even the Atlas could do with some slight modifications.

[HybridTheory]

For every custom design there will be another one that can beat it. Having the freedom of some choice is part of what makes Mechwarrior as fun as it is. I agree some limitations are needed for the sake of balance and the devs seem to be on top of it. Fear not. And have some faith... this will be a blast... literally.

Edited by HybridTheory, 09 July 2012 - 07:08 PM.

[Wolv e]

Bearcut, on 09 July 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

I know you are worried about "boating", op, like you mentioned... Tons of the same weapon... but the fact is, if you don't allow for customization, then the game will become unbalanced between chassis.
Example - DRG-1N is woefully underpowered for its size. A little customization, and you'll have a great mech that'll make someone happy. Should they stick to canon just to make you happy? No, because then nobody in their right mind would pilot a dragon for long.

Mechlab increases playability.

Agreed, and again I have no problem with "some" customization. Basically there needs to be a time penalty when you fully customize a mech....after all it does take not only C-Bills, but time as well......the more you customize the longer it takes to refit.........

[Ryunkasa]

Skadi, on 09 July 2012 - 03:42 PM, said:

oh god not sure if serious, customization is good, but build your own mech from the ground up...

Dear god no.

Seeing that made my day. LoL, thank you.

[Oy of MidWorld]

Mechlab is fun. Purists and fanatics hate fun.

[AnubySet]

Varrients for the WIN
Let me waist my time painting it would also be fking awsome

[Chronojam]

Oy of MidWorld, on 09 July 2012 - 07:36 PM, said:

Mechlab is fun. Purists and fanatics hate fun.

There is a stark difference between the "PPCs in your legs" mech lab of Mechwarrior 2, the babby's-first-omnimech lab from Mechwarrior 4, and the healthy compromise for the MWO mech lab that we've seen featured in video coverage so far.

I think we can all agree that mechanisms such as unique ammo feeds per particular launcher in MW4 was awful, and poor restrictions coupled with very loose rule interpretation in MW2 made for un-fun boating. This seems to be taken into account so far.

[Yankee77]

I was initially quite worried about that, remembering how things were in previous MW games. The problem with energy boats and the likes was quite annoying.

Fortunately, the hardpoint system will limit that incidence of unreasonable builds AND make the various mech chassis actually meaningful (without such a system, the only thing that makes a mech different - give full mech lab access - is tonnage). Plus it allows our designs to make some sense based on the mech's appearance (no more shooting PPCs from the missile pods, for example).

I still think it allows for plenty of creativity, but it keeps it within reasonable limits that, simultaneously, makes the various Mech variants actually meaningful.

The end result is a much more interesting variety that prevents boating and keeps things more in line with the lore. I am quite happy with the hardpoint system (as advertized, at least).

Itkovian

[Fusea]

Rather than strictly limiting customization, they should focus on altering the game engine to limit the viability of boats. Some of that has already been done. The number of weapons you can grab is relatively fixed. However you can upgrade them and change them as weight and money will allow. The other thing that made boating so success full was the pin point acc. All 23 lasers on your boat hit a single ... pixel. Some of that has been changed with adding seperate targeting for torso and arm weapons. Now if multiple weapons in the same location are slightly off on either firing time or acc, then all the laser boats are right out the window. Missile boats, and to a lesser extent autocannon boats still fly, but only for as long as they have ammo. Honestly, as a long time player of the TT I often ended up adhering to the hardpoint system without thinking about it. Now I'm not totally happy with the current hardpoint system, but I still think from the description that it sounds better than the 20 laser boats.

[SuperClone]

Variants only would cause me to not play this game, and here is why:

For starters, let me say, that Variants never made a good transition into the Mech Game Simulatior space. There was always a variant which had at least one weapon which had little or no practical use in a PvP game. On the table top or in the novel it worked out great because (at least in the novels) One Missle salvo or AC chain could cripple a mech. When designing a PC game balance has to be considered, and so as a result things don't always translate the way you might expect. So, ultimately, you would chose a variant, and that variant would contain a sub par weapon and is now wasted space.

I remember when I was playing Mech2/4 online. I, personaly did not like running out of ammo or having my ammo get critically hit and explode. So I chose to run all Energy Weps, perhaps 1-2 LRM20's. Taking all energy weps caused me to have to manage heat much more and caused me to have to devote much more tonnage to heat sinks. But, that was the trade off to building my mech the way that fit my play style and strategy.

I am going to use an analogy so, if anyone is still reading this please try to detach from Battletech universe and let me explain a modern gaming example that I feel is a clear equation to a variant only model:

First Person shooters. FPS's typically now a days, use a system where you start off with a number of "premade" load outs for your guy and they are there for people to use until they start to unlock "Custom Class" slots and higher level weapons. My point here is, nobody uses these pre-made classes once they can make custom classes.

I think wolvey is afraid that you'll either end up with Energy Boats or Missle boats, if you don't force the players to chose from variants. But I'm here to say this is not the case. As long as there is always a trade off to taking an extreme build you will have players who think the price is too high for such an extreme build. Most people are not risk taker people. Generally, players are people who will stick with simple rather then complex and not take a risky build. The trick is to make sure that "Crazy" mech designs come with "High Risk" as well. "This jenner has 34 Small lasers ....and Zero heat sinks." You might get one good shot off before your heat is red-lined. Or, "this Awesome took nothing but LRM20's ... but all you have to do is sneeze on the guy and all that ammo detonates critically"

When players really start to think "If I take X, then I must also include Y, but if I have Y, I can't have Z. Is this worth it? What situation might it be worth it? What battlefield tactics can I implement to make this build pay off? Is there something I can get a lance mate to do that will help?" You will really start to have tactics and you will start to see real cat and mouse games. And what about reputation? "Such-and-such is a good player, I've played him before - but he takes risks and tends to think outside of the box"

All of this is why I love Mechwarrior multiplayer and I just think forcing players into one variant or another and telling them to "do the best you can with what you are given" makes things pretty dull.