117 replies to this topic

[Suko]

Anyone who's ever played any MMO has experienced Power Creep. Essentially, old dungeons, equipment, items suck compared to the newest stuff implemented into the game. This game is ripe to suffer from this, especially with the ever increasing technology that is going to be regularly introduced into it as time elapses.

The guys over at Extra Credits just covered this issue and made a LOT of great observations and might offer everyone in the MWO community (devs and players) better ways to handle this topic.

http://penny-arcade....ode/power-creep

[William Petersen]

In BattleTech we already know what's coming: ClanTech and LosTech. <.<

[sng ign]

Power creep is capped with Level 3 / Experimental.

The pilot skills / improving skills will be how players "power up".

[Adridos]

Now this is a war between canon and gameplay... and we don't know who will ultimately win, or if there won't be peace.

[Squigles]

William Petersen, on 02 July 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

In BattleTech we already know what's coming: ClanTech and LosTech. <.<

We already have LosTech at launch, it's here. =)

God willing they'll handle clan tech intelligently, and if they do, we won't have to worry about power creep unless this game runs for decades.

[Iron Horse]

I so want to fight a dragon now... in a Dragon!

Edited by Iron Horse, 02 July 2012 - 01:12 PM.

[Suko]

William Petersen, on 02 July 2012 - 01:08 PM, said:

In BattleTech we already know what's coming: ClanTech and LosTech. <.<

Clan Tech = biggest example of power creep EVER. Face it, no one WANTS to use an original 3025 Catapult against a Mad Cat (unless they're doing it for a ridiculous challenge). I'm very interested to see how the devs handle this.

Edited by shadowvfx, 02 July 2012 - 01:15 PM.

[Stray Ion]

In previous games IMO it was balanced pretty well, either with more heat generated and/or with increased cycle time. The little extra damage and/or range and/or weight had its draw backs.

[William Petersen]

Squigles, on 02 July 2012 - 01:11 PM, said:

We already have LosTech at launch, it's here. =)

God willing they'll handle clan tech intelligently, and if they do, we won't have to worry about power creep unless this game runs for decades.

We already have some LosTech. =) LB-20s, SSRM-6s, are examples of LosTech that is still Lost.

shadowvfx, on 02 July 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

Clan Tech = biggest example of power creep EVER. Face it, no one WANTS to use an original 3025 Catapult against a Mad Cat (unless they're doing it for a ridiculous challenge). I'm very interested to see how the devs handle this.

No doubt, sir, and I sincerely hope they tone down the Clan Tech advantages and give them some disadvantages to make them more 'imcomparables', as the video said, but if they do that they'll probably have hordes of crying ClanBabies on their hands.

I'd also like to see Double Heat Sinks toned down to either 150% the heat disipation (and probably only take 1 crit for clan and 2 crits for IS) of standard heat sinks, or to exempt the 10 'free' heat sinks from being doubled.

Time will tell, and I greatly look forward to seeing just what they do about the Problem of ClanTech, if anything.


EDIT: Another big problem is that the primary balance mechanism of the table top (that is, Battle Value) is (as far as I know) not present in MW:O. If it was, then I would have much less problem with most Clan Tech because it was much more expensive in terms of BV (DHS were still dirt-cheap in BV and C-Bills, so something really needs to be done about them, IMO).

Edited by William Petersen, 02 July 2012 - 01:22 PM.

[Lightdragon]

power creep wont affect this game at all, players will still be able to use their favorite old designs and be able to upgrade their tech as they go to fit their playstyle

[PANZERBUNNY]

A Commando can still headshot your supreme lostech mech design.

I fear not new tech.
I fear not power creep.
I only fear the end of bacon.

[Wahaka]

That had some really good info in it.

How many times in how many games, did you trade in your Purples for greens in a short time.

[CmdrSpider]

So you suffer from ADOS (Attention Defiect Oh Shiny) and your worried about keeping up with the Jones (Clanner's). So what's a poor mech jockey going to do. Honesty it doesn't matter how much lost tech or clanner equipment you possess someone else is guaranteed to have more, if not today then tomorrow. And heaven for bid you on a limited budget or you just play for free, however will you compete then?

Typically I found that for every guy who seems to have it all there's two more who have some of the toy's and another three who have none. The secret is not worrying about it, go out and enjoy the game. In one FPS I play in regulary I have all the best weapons a guy could ask for and in some modes I rock my competition. While in other modes of game play guys will lesser weapons did me on a regluar basis.

Often its not who has the best, but who knows how to use what they have. In WoT I haven't spent a dime and sure I have games where I make no kills, but then I also have those game with 3 & 4 kills and the occasional awesome game where I take out 7 out 15 opponents. In every game I try to learn how to be a better player, not making the same mistakes I've made before. No matter what the out come I always find myself want to come back for more. Enjoy the game, be yourself, take what the game has to offer and enjoy the adventure.

Living the Victory,

CmdrSpider

[ManDaisy]

Why would you reduce the crit of double heat sinks, wouldn't that just make them more OP?

[bandita]

well as long as they handle it so the early models are like the lower teir tanks in wot shouldnt be a problem imo in the books the lostech stuff was in some ways better than the clan gear.I also wonder how they are gonna handle scavenging gear off fallen mechs makes it worth taking your spazzy mech against a clanner if you get a chance to equipt the upgraded weapons.Another thing that would be quite cool is to see mobbing games where you have 4 clanner mechs against 2/3 times the amount off nonlostech mechs (also work for heavys against lights).
but the clans hitting the inner spere is gonna be cool to see (timberwolf ftw) maybe have the players start attacking other houses then get transfered to the clan border to fight them and get the better mechs

[CCC Dober]

OP: Most of the coming technology is balanced somewhat. Costs were usually the deciding factor in the past.
And then some of the more powerful ones, like XL reactors, Endo Steel or MASC have side-effects. But there are indeed a few items that really stand out from the crowd, such as Omni Mechs in general, electronics in general, LAMS, Light Gauss Rifle, Clan Gauss Rifle, Clan Hyper Assault Gauss (i.e. HAG40) and Rotary AC10/20s. Just to name a few ...

The good thing is that most of them are not exclusive items that work only with certain Mechs. So the power creep can be limited to the economic side of the game.

Edited by CCC Dober, 02 July 2012 - 01:33 PM.

[ManDaisy]

**** wot. Level 1 mechs should perform like level 1 mechs. The thing with battletech/mechwarrior is level 1 mechs (zombies) can often still kick *** even against advanced tech. One thing no one who hasn't played battletech realizes is that advance tech just lets you have more firepower but never more armor. An Atlas with level 2 tech take the same damage, and only has just as much armor as a level 1 tech Atlas. Its the same way with Clans as well... an 100 Dire Wolf carries the same amount of armor as an 100 ton atlas.

Edited by ManDaisy, 02 July 2012 - 01:39 PM.

[LoBoTomy]

Power Creep shouldn't be to hard to deal with. But Planned Obsolescence could be a problem.

[Terror Teddy]

I dont care how superior some yahoo will feel in a clan mech - they can still take critical damage, I can still kneecap them and they can still die.

I might sit in an old machine, but it is mine, I've fought in it for decades, i know it as well as my own heart. New technology can only do so much - in the end it will be the pilots that decide the outcome.

Besides - Who will feel better about their victory, the one in his 20 year old design or the guy in his shiny new toy? And my salvage will be worth more on the market than they would get from me.

[Tombstoner]

shadowvfx, on 02 July 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

Clan Tech = biggest example of power creep EVER. Face it, no one WANTS to use an original 3025 Catapult against a Mad Cat (unless they're doing it for a ridiculous challenge). I'm very interested to see how the devs handle this.

I am expecting a tier / battle point type of match making similar to WOT. So yea you could run into a clan mech some day but your probably never going to be in a stock 3025 mech